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Author Topic: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets  (Read 10590 times)

Offline Acca

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2017, 08:14:45 PM »
Luc at least you should see some of these video clips as you have no time .. so what do you want ?


Proof of what !        ....






I have "spent my time here" to find the right material for this post.. I did have time today ..


Acca..




 


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline telecom

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #61 on: March 16, 2017, 11:51:38 PM »
Hi I've used the calc which was pointed by gotoluc:
Voltage across capacitor   
7
 (V)
Capacitance   
2200
 (uF)
Load Resistance (Optional)   
6
 (Ohms)
Compute

Result:

Energy   
0.0539
 (Joules)
Time Constant   
0.0132
 (seconds)



Using law of  conservation of the momentum for the magnet with the weight of 1 kg and repelling force of 10 kg (100N), I get:
M = F x T = 100 x 0.0132 = 1.32 Nm
The speed for the weight of 1 kg will be
V = M/m = 1.3 m/sec
Kinetic energy = mV2/2 =0.8 J

Where energy of the coil was 0.05 J


« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 02:02:02 AM by telecom »


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2017, 12:43:32 AM »
Tap into the energy.  ;D

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #63 on: March 17, 2017, 07:39:11 PM »
Permanent Magnet DC motors are now pushing 95% efficiency.

By the line of reasoning that Permanent Magnets in and of themselves are a source of energy, you would think that doubling the strength of a magnet in a good high efficiency P.M magnet motor would double the efficiency, possibly pushing it over 100% efficiency.

It does not.

It only gets you a little closer to 100%

If we put 745.699 Watts into a 95% efficient PM DC motor we get exactly 0.95 HP output. Input power x efficiency neatly matches output power.

If we double the magnet strength, we may go to 96% or 0.96 HP output.

So where is the power coming from if we can account for the fact that nearly 100% of the motor horsepower relates exactly to the input power, what part are the magnets actually contributing? It is coming from the power source input, since we can account for nearly all of the input power  as directly related to the output shaft horsepower.

 More powerful magnets, better steel, lower resistance windings, less friction in the bearings all get you closer to 100% efficiency but not over 100% with current designs.

The magnets are part of the structure (system) required to make the machine efficiently transform electrical power into mechanical horsepower. So are the steel return paths and copper windings, shaftbearings etc. Are they also a source of energy? Not as used in a motor. They are a contributor to higher efficiency when well designed.

Reducing the thickness of the copper windings results in more heat loss, increasing the thickness results in less Joule loss and higher efficiency.  So is thicker wire contributing energy? No, it's just shifting the input energy into HP rather than waste heat

All of these factors when optimized push us close to 100% efficiency.

If we want to extract energy from magnets in a motor design, we will have to think about it quite differently.

MH good to see you back, you were missed.

BTW my guitar amp goes to 11  8)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 11:06:56 PM by Vortex1 »


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #64 on: March 17, 2017, 09:59:00 PM »
The energy is not in the magnet it is in the field response.
Stronger field, stronger response.
Same energy, less waste.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #64 on: March 17, 2017, 09:59:00 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Floor

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2017, 12:02:47 AM »
It seems that, If OU can be done with PMs, then moving on to an electric motor
would be a logical next step.

It seems also,  that energy can't be measured unless something  that we can notice
changes.

I think that an electricaly operated motor without any PMs would be the ideal.





Offline Acca

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #66 on: March 18, 2017, 06:08:58 AM »



Floor here is an electric scooter that is "lets just say" it re-charges as it's being driven.. however the car will be next..

link to those that want to see that scooter that was made in India ..

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfm-WQ3arws
 
This has to be  real as it was on TV !!!

Acca...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #66 on: March 18, 2017, 06:08:58 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Floor

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #67 on: March 18, 2017, 03:06:00 PM »
    Quote from ACCA
"This has to be  real as it was on TV !!!"
   End quote

It really does have to be real, it was put on on the OverUnity forum by ACCA  !!!  :'(





Offline citfta

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #68 on: March 18, 2017, 04:24:21 PM »
I have always loved to read.  When I was in high school about 55 years ago I thought if something was written in a book it had to be true.  I naively believed there were some kind of truth police that didn't allow something to be published if it wasn't true.  Since then of course I have learned you can't believe everything you read and especially can't believe what you see on TV or YouTube.  Only a very young or naive person would believe something is true just because they saw it on TV.  Even if the person presenting it believed it to be true how do we know they have the training and experience to properly judge what they are reporting about.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Online seychelles

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #69 on: March 18, 2017, 04:48:26 PM »
ALL FORM OF ENERGY COMES FROM ETHER ..MAY IT BE A GAS FIRE ,
 ELECTRICAL, ATOMIC, SOLAR AND THE REST . A MAGNET IS AN ETHER
 NONE M0VING PART SOLID STATE RESONATOR.. IT JUST FACILITATE
THE IMPROVED EFFICIENCY OF ANY  INVENTIONS THAT INCLUDE A PM
IN ITS CIRCUIT. VORTEX1 HAS HIT IT ON THE RED HOT NAIL..I WILL
POST AN IDEA OF A
POSSIBLE FREE ENERGY INVENTION LATER.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #69 on: March 18, 2017, 04:48:26 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Erfinder

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #70 on: March 18, 2017, 05:07:28 PM »
Permanent Magnet DC motors are now pushing 95% efficiency.

By the line of reasoning that Permanent Magnets in and of themselves are a source of energy, you would think that doubling the strength of a magnet in a good high efficiency P.M magnet motor would double the efficiency, possibly pushing it over 100% efficiency.

It does not.

It only gets you a little closer to 100%

If we put 745.699 Watts into a 95% efficient PM DC motor we get exactly 0.95 HP output. Input power x efficiency neatly matches output power.

If we double the magnet strength, we may go to 96% or 0.96 HP output.

So where is the power coming from if we can account for the fact that nearly 100% of the motor horsepower relates exactly to the input power, what part are the magnets actually contributing? It is coming from the power source input, since we can account for nearly all of the input power  as directly related to the output shaft horsepower.

 More powerful magnets, better steel, lower resistance windings, less friction in the bearings all get you closer to 100% efficiency but not over 100% with current designs.

The magnets are part of the structure (system) required to make the machine efficiently transform electrical power into mechanical horsepower. So are the steel return paths and copper windings, shaftbearings etc. Are they also a source of energy? Not as used in a motor. They are a contributor to higher efficiency when well designed.

Reducing the thickness of the copper windings results in more heat loss, increasing the thickness results in less Joule loss and higher efficiency.  So is thicker wire contributing energy? No, it's just shifting the input energy into HP rather than waste heat

All of these factors when optimized push us close to 100% efficiency.

If we want to extract energy from magnets in a motor design, we will have to think about it quite differently.

MH good to see you back, you were missed.

BTW my guitar amp goes to 11  8)


Are you in the position to "extract" what the magnets are presently providing in existing technology?  If not, how then can you suggest extracting something which you yourself are not aware of?

Offline dieter

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2017, 02:47:12 AM »
All this 95%, 96% talk is just dogmatizing. If that is a word.


Anyway, I did the same test with a tiny 100 uF cap, again at 7vdc. The ratio of reaction was again the same with the various PMs. The coil was not pushed away, only shaked a certain amount. Clearly the cap fully fired in all tests.


So, if the scepticals theory is right (95% etc), then, by using this 100uF cap, there should be some kind of limit: a PM size or strength, that represents a 100% efficiency, and from which any further increase of PM strength will have no additional effect? And where exactly would that limit be?


At least that should be easy to test.


An other thing you must consider is: As the pulse pushes in this test, coil and PM are at Rest. Due to inertia the coil is just starting to fly away, but has already stored the main repelling push as momentum. It will generate its secondary field the faster it flies, which is at peak after the significant part of the primary pulse. So a certain phase shift may also play a role here.


Offline PolaczekCebulaczek

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #72 on: March 19, 2017, 06:10:19 AM »
Well, if you put a magnet near coil with DC pulse or AC current, magnet will vibrate, so would bigger magnet vibrate more? this vibrating magnet inside another coil = induction.

Offline dieter

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2017, 01:39:28 PM »
PolaczekCebulaczekz,
you may have misunderstood the question. Of course we know induction.


Referring to my last paragraph, there may be a diffrence, depending on whether the parts start at rest, compared to an ongoing rotation in a motor.


In the latter, the fieldstrength is already decreasing when the repelling pulse is fired.


Anyhow, at the basis of the experiment described, is there a certain upper limit of PM strength, above which no further repelling can be achieved?


According to the sceptical theory there must be such a limit. Where is it?


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #74 on: March 19, 2017, 03:23:26 PM »
MH good to see you back, you were missed.

BTW my guitar amp goes to 11  8)

Thanks Ion, I am here in 'lite mode.'  Tell your drummer to be careful!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #74 on: March 19, 2017, 03:23:26 PM »

 

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