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Author Topic: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets  (Read 10678 times)

Offline dieter

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #120 on: March 27, 2017, 12:45:32 AM »
if you don't mind, "bullets" brings up some bad memories to me, thanks.

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Offline Zephir

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #121 on: March 27, 2017, 01:19:49 AM »
Quote
In addition, why conservation of the momentum works, and conservation of energy - not?
The energy is still conserved, but only portion of it gets stored in macroscopic momentum of ballistic pendulum - the rest goes into increase of microscopic momentum of its molecules - and we call this momentum heat.


Offline telecom

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #122 on: March 27, 2017, 02:12:29 AM »
The energy is still conserved, but only portion of it gets stored in macroscopic momentum of ballistic pendulum - the rest goes into increase of microscopic momentum of its molecules - and we call this momentum heat.
Its hard to see how it is conserved, considering that 95% simply disappears. But important part is, that it will be mistaken to apply a ballistic pendulum concept towards the jumping
EM coil for the recovering of its mechanical energy - it will be lost the same way as in a pendulum.
The better approach will be to catch the potential energy on the way down.

Offline Zephir

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #123 on: March 27, 2017, 02:14:13 AM »
It doesn't matter, we are in overunity forum. The miraculous lost of energy bothers anyone here.


Offline Bertoa

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #124 on: March 27, 2017, 01:00:39 PM »
The RattleGen: This is a permanent magnet generator I developed a couple of years ago. OK, the thing works by adding kinetic energy but the way this is done is quite original. The electronic circuit is very elementary. I use a resistor to reduce the LED current. Doing experiments with a relay and a magnet, early 2013, I discovered on my oscilloscope screen a useful voltage. A ceramic magnet was put agains the relay coil. Pressing the contact lever made energy, as you can see in the video. A bit later I placed a strong neodymium magnet on the contact lever of the relay. As a result, the voltage was peaking 2 times higher on the screen. Then I took a small relay; the output peak voltage of the relay coil was 35 volt, without load. After the bridge rectifier the voltage peaks are smoothed by a condenser. To test the small generator I use an ultra bright LED. Take care; depending on the iron of the relay coil a stronger magnet will not give more flux, this because of the saturation. If you make the gap bigger between the contact lever and the relay coil the output will enhance. The magnet functions also as tension spring. The lever jumps back after pressing. This saves again one mechanical part. Before the LED light up you have to press the contactlever several times. The capacitor of 1000 microfarad 16 volt has to charge first. Watch the video to see the principle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUjGYse8vc

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #124 on: March 27, 2017, 01:00:39 PM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #125 on: March 27, 2017, 08:46:20 PM »
Very interesting, Bertoa. Video not playing here ("Error 10" in my third party player). Certainly more reliable than dynamo type flashlights with plastic gears. And a nice size.


BTW, you may try this: a low leakage capacitor, and instead of the LED with the resistor, you drive a joule thief+LED, that will use the power more economicly, and lites an LED down to maybe 0.5V cap voltage.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #126 on: March 27, 2017, 08:56:36 PM »
The RattleGen: This is a permanent magnet generator I developed a couple of years ago.
....

Hi Berto,

Very cool idea indeed! I like its simplicity.  Thanks for showing the video on it too.

EDIT:  just noticed Dieter's additional idea of feeding a Joule thief + LED from the puffer capacitor, that is also a good idea!

Gyula

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #126 on: March 27, 2017, 08:56:36 PM »
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Offline Bertoa

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #127 on: March 28, 2017, 01:13:56 AM »
@Dieter/gyulasun, I was feeding a Joule Thief with the output of the generator. Maybe it was the combination of parts but the LED was only flashing once in the 3 seconds. I think the JT needs more power to keep the LED burning permanent. When my electronic lab is furnished again, I go on to enhance this minimalistic circuit. I made also a bike lamp using the wheel spokes for activating the RattleGen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwbCTU6-8jQ 

Offline dieter

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #128 on: March 28, 2017, 08:50:43 PM »
Maybe your Joule Thief didn't work well. Does it work with a 1.5V battery?


Additionally, you can feed the higher voltage of the back emf over some schottky diodes into the cap. Normally a joule thief oscillates at maybe 40 kHz, no way to flash only once every 3 secs.


Btw. how about using bicycle vibration for the rattle drive? When driving on gravel roads, this shoild work well, using some freely vibrating weight.


Offline dieter

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #129 on: March 28, 2017, 08:55:28 PM »
btw. robert murray-smith mentioned in one of his recent tube vids an smd joulethief that runs down to like 0.03 VDC, from ebay I think

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #129 on: March 28, 2017, 08:55:28 PM »
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Offline Bertoa

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #130 on: March 29, 2017, 11:35:45 AM »
Hi Dieter, thanks for your suggestions. You mention exact the investigations I want to do.
- First using the linear motion of the the bike vibrations. The rattlegen is a perfect vibration generator. It has some simularities with a ceramic transducer but it has more output power, depending on the used parts. Here is much more to gain!
- second a better joulethief will efficiently light up the LED. Maybe a suitable project for some of you? Because of the few parts, a nice circuit for a self charging flashlight!


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #131 on: March 29, 2017, 01:14:11 PM »
Nice work Bertoa, this is the best thing I've seen on this forum in a while.

A diode or two and a reservoir capacitor should make it work with about any JT circuit, I should think.

(Of course it's not really "extracting energy from permanent magnets"; the magnet is just a tool to enable your system to extract and convert energy of motion, also called Kinetic Energy.)


Offline Bertoa

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Re: Simple Experiment: Extraction of Energy from Permanent Magnets
« Reply #132 on: March 29, 2017, 05:01:23 PM »
Thanks, TinselKoala. You are right, opening and closing of the iron core around the coil needs kinetic energy. What did surprice me was that breaking a passive permanent magnet fluxfield in the iron around the relaycoil, by kinetic means, induces electric current inside the solenoide. The mechanical energy necessary to function as a fluxbreaker is minimal. I can imagine that the right parts and right dimensions can make the rattlegen to a more efficient generator.     

 

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