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New Battery systems => Other new battery systems => Topic started by: sm0ky2 on February 24, 2017, 05:16:20 PM

Title: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 24, 2017, 05:16:20 PM
after years of experimentation using magnetism in perpetual loops


Passing these currents through non-magnetic materials
and even inductive materials


It stands to reason the possibility of developing a perpetual
'Electric current' or rather a perpetual magnetic current through
an inductive material loop.


How is this possible?
As we know, placing an insulator or inductor in a perpetual magnetic
current for extended periods of time, imparts a degree of magnetism
to these non magnetic materials.


If an inductive loop be made of a material altered in this way
and a perpetual magnetic current then be established
We should expect to see a perpetual inductive force.
Or a Permanent Electric Holder. (PEH)





Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: webby1 on February 24, 2017, 08:19:42 PM
A little confused here,,

I take it that you are not talking about the dielectric between the plates of a capacitor or how that works,, but rather something different?
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 25, 2017, 04:24:33 PM
A little confused here,,

I take it that you are not talking about the dielectric between the plates of a capacitor or how that works,, but rather something different?


I mean quite literally, an electric modality of the PMH


What is a PMH?  This is a continuous electromagnetic
flux loop, established as the magnetic propagation of current
through a loop of ferrous material.
It was first presented by Ed Leedskalnin- builder of Coral Castle.
Described in his book: Magnetic Currents
In this book are a series of electric and magnetic experiments
that display effects not understood by modern theory.


One of these experiments is the Perpetual Motion Holder (PMH).
Essentially the original device was a "u shaped" piece of
ferromagnetic material with a bar that can connect the two ends.
Opposite (attracting) coils are placed such that the N faces one end,
S faces the other.


An electric current of low potential is then pulsed through these coils,
This establishes a current which is almost entirely converted to the
magnetic domain by the ferrite. When this occurs the metal bar across
the ends will lock into place, like the 'keeper' of a horseshoe magnet.
Forever
Or until the magnetic lock is broken.  When broken, the collapsing
magnetic current will induce a pulse of electricity back through the
coils.
This can be minutes or years later in time.


Since then thousands of experiments have been shared, and repeated,
Giving rise to new shapes and forms of 'loops' to experiment with.


My thoughts are that, if we can eternally flux a magnetic current
We should be able to set up the same scenario electrically.



Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: shylo on February 25, 2017, 05:14:08 PM
I think that is what I'm trying to do.
I have four sets of coils , I use one set at a time for rotation , the other three for generating.
They all take turns ,either generating or motoring.
The magnetic field produced in the motoring coils, affects the generating coils.
I'm finding 90 degrees apart for motoring seems to work.
But still looking
artv
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 25, 2017, 07:35:09 PM
Thanks artv


This is a good read with some accompanying videos
It gives one scientists perspective of the effects.


http://www.leedskalnin.com/leedskalninsperpetualmotionholder.html (http://www.leedskalnin.com/leedskalninsperpetualmotionholder.html)


Just stumbled upon this today
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 25, 2017, 07:48:30 PM
Like if our coils themselves formed a loop
Toroid or whatever
And we used the magnetic air-core instead of metal


The effect seems not to care about the magnetic impedance
once the loop has been established



Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: pomodoro on February 26, 2017, 01:12:18 AM
Doubtv  there is anything OU in this. I discovered years ago that it works well without the special  winding. A normal solenoid type winding does the job. In the end I figured out that all I was making was a type of permanent magnet when the keeper was put on. The energy you normally get back when the field collapsed is stored as a magnetic field. Then, then you physically apply work in forcing the keeper off, you kill the magnetic field and you get back the energy through the could.  In other words, energy is stored in a magnetic field for a long time and the same energy is released later on when you collapse the field, except that the action of pulling the keeper off costs you extra work.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: pomodoro on February 26, 2017, 01:15:10 AM

Doubtv  there is anything OU in this. I discovered years ago that it works well without the special  winding. A normal solenoid type winding does the job. In the end I figured out that all I was making was a type of permanent magnet when the keeper was put on. The energy you normally get back when the field collapsed is stored as a magnetic field. Then, then you physically apply work in forcing the keeper off, you kill the magnetic field and you get back the energy through the coil In other words, energy is stored in a magnetic field for a long time and the same energy is released later on when you collapse the field, except that the action of pulling the keeper off costs you extra work.  It is rather special how the keeper needs to be put on after the current is applied, someone who studied magnets field probably has an answer. I did not take any readings of power in/out.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: tinman on February 26, 2017, 08:34:25 AM
So,dose the PMH show us a magnetic mono field?

I mean,if there exists a magnetic field within the core,until the loop is broken,then where is north,and where is south(so to speak)-where dose each pole start,and where do they finish ?.

If we know the magnetic field exists within the core,but there is no two pole's--is this not a mono magnetic field?.


Brad
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: gyulasun on February 26, 2017, 12:13:22 PM
Hi Brad,

I think the same question could be asked in connection with a normal toroidal core: we wind say a full single layer coil on it and then we input DC current to the coil (making sure to avoid core saturation). Where are the poles in the closed toroidal core? 
Albeit not as straitforward comparison to a toroidal core case, what happens to the poles when we close the two prongs of a normal horse shoe magnet with a soft iron keeper? (Magnetic field strength strongly gets reduced outside around the original prongs.)

I would not consider the magnetic field in such cases a mono magnetic field, I would call it a closed magnetic field, the magnetic field strength may be uniformly distributed volume-wise inside a toridal core.  And the magnetic N or S poles could not be distinguished from each other in this case by a field polarity meter.  OF course, any assymetry in winding, cross section of the core etc may let some magnetic field leak out what could already be sensed by very sensitive sensors, both strength and pole orientation wise.

Gyula
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: tinman on February 26, 2017, 02:09:18 PM
Hi Brad,

I think the same question could be asked in connection with a normal toroidal core: we wind say a full single layer coil on it and then we input DC current to the coil (making sure to avoid core saturation). Where are the poles in the closed toroidal core? 
Albeit not as straitforward comparison to a toroidal core case, what happens to the poles when we close the two prongs of a normal horse shoe magnet with a soft iron keeper? (Magnetic field strength strongly gets reduced outside around the original prongs.)

I would not consider the magnetic field in such cases a mono magnetic field, I would call it a closed magnetic field, the magnetic field strength may be uniformly distributed volume-wise inside a toridal core.  And the magnetic N or S poles could not be distinguished from each other in this case by a field polarity meter.  OF course, any assymetry in winding, cross section of the core etc may let some magnetic field leak out what could already be sensed by very sensitive sensors, both strength and pole orientation wise.

Gyula

So ,when we pulse a coil that is rapped around a toroid core,the magnetic field continues to exist within that core until we reverse pulse the coil-at which time the magnetic field is now !!spinning!!? in the opposite direction around the toroid core for all time,or until such time as we pulse it once again,with the opposite polarity.

Even though we cannot measure a voltage from the coil,due to the magnetic field not changing in time,we know that the magnetic field still exist within the core-even when you short the two ends of the coil.

So ,not only are we trying to build a new electric field around the coil when we switch polarity,but also trying the reverse the magnetic field that exists within the core it self.

Also,if the fields cannot be distinguished from one another,how can it not be one field?-a magnetic field without a north and south(as we have termed it). It's much like mixing red paint with yellow paint at a 1:1 ratio--we then have only orange paint.


Brad
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: gyulasun on February 26, 2017, 02:28:35 PM
see answers below
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: gyulasun on February 26, 2017, 09:35:53 PM
So, when we pulse a coil that is wrapped around a toroid core, the magnetic field continues to exist within that core

I believe it depends on the remanent magnetic properties of a particular toroid core. I think also that in case the 'perpetual motion holder' is made of solid iron, the several Amper input current involved behaves just like a normal magnetization process takes place to make a permanent magnet from a magnetizable material: it organizes the magnetic domains.
Here are two videos you may or may not have seen and I think these tests are a good example how this phenomena depends on the magnetic properties of the different cores:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHbQXnXK6Xc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHbQXnXK6Xc)  Part 1 (9 minute long)   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsN2sr3U0PY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsN2sr3U0PY)    Part 2 (2 minute long)

Quote
until we reverse pulse the coil -at which time the magnetic field is now !!spinning!!? in the opposite direction around the toroid core for all time, or until such time as we pulse it once again, with the opposite polarity.

I do not know whether the field or whatever inside is 'spinning' or not, I think a reverse pulse would rearrange the direction of the magnetic domains and the field would also be maintained like in the earlier polarity case.

Quote
Even though we cannot measure a voltage from the coil, due to the magnetic field not changing in time, we know that the magnetic field still exist within the core -even when you short the two ends of the coil.

Well, a test done at and from video time 4:00 in Part 1 of the above link shows the behaviour of two core types in this respect.

Quote
So, not only are we trying to build a new electric field around the coil when we switch polarity, but also trying the reverse the magnetic field that exists within the core itself.

Yes, when we reverse the direction of the input current we invariably flip the magnetic polarity exerted onto the core too.

Quote
Also, if the fields cannot be distinguished from one another, how can it not be one field? -a magnetic field without a north and south (as we have termed it). It's much like mixing red paint with yellow paint at a 1:1 ratio--we then have only orange paint.

 Let me suggest the following thought experiment: suppose we are able to move a tiny compass inside a toroidal core on which a coil is biased with DC current (or we could move a tiny compass inside a perpetual motion holder).

Suppose we position the compass inside the toroid core at 12 o'clock and it shows say North to the right and shows South to the left of the 12 i.e. the compass would set in tangentially to the core circle at 12 o'clock. I think when we would move the tiny compass say in the cw direction within the core body, the compass would always show a leading North as it would move ahead in cw direction, it would never turn direction so that a leading South would never come somewhere within the core during this cw direction movement. We could perform any full circle in cw, we would always have a leading North indicated on the tiny compass.
When we would reverse the input current direction, only then would our tiny compass change direction.

This is how I see this. Of course I am sure I cannot answer several things which may crop up with this topic.

Gyula
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: gyulasun on February 26, 2017, 09:43:23 PM
double post, deleted
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on February 27, 2017, 12:17:04 AM
So if the magnetic field continues to circulate the electric field never collapses.
 
Evidently a ferrous core cant be used in a dc pulsed system.

Went down the same road about a month ago.

Russ left a pmh hanging for two years and when he broke the magnetic field the electric field collapsed and lit leds.

Was the TPU air core or maybe a single strand of wire.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on February 27, 2017, 12:35:09 AM
Tesla gave us a gift that is overlooked, the rotary switch, a simple wheel with magnets passing reed switches will allow numerous coils to be pulsed in numerous configurations.
Just some ideas to ponder  :)
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: dieter on February 28, 2017, 11:31:00 PM
A closed Magnetic Fluxpath, caused by a coil, will store its magnetic field until the coil is allowed to have current flow. But as the field is static, no current will flow, unless you kickstart it o one or another direction.


Same with transformers. Stack 2 on eachother, touch with battery, they stick together.


Ed had some more important discoveries, that I recently understood. However.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Cherryman on February 28, 2017, 11:38:59 PM
...


Ed had some more important discoveries, that I recently understood. However.


I second that Sir,


For me: 


Charge travels on the outside
Enclosing an (electromagnet) from the outside strengthens the directed magnetic field


Ed was a wise man

Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: shylo on March 01, 2017, 12:45:44 AM
"Charge travels on the outside" Yes ,
"Enclosing an (electromagnet) from the outside strengthens the directed magnetic field", No, it concentrates it to the center.
It reduces it's influence on the surrounding area.
Don't try to stop doing it from what it, wants to do , try and use that to influence what you want to happen.
artv
 
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: shylo on March 01, 2017, 11:45:25 PM
hang some magnets on strings,
spin one. now approach it with another magnet on a string,see what happens.
get 2 spinning then add a third,
it can probably go on forever, I don't know.
Does anybody really know?
artv
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Cherryman on March 02, 2017, 12:40:08 AM
Shylo, that reminds me reminds me of the good ol' Jonny Davro.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuVtKYfSDI8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuVtKYfSDI8)
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 17, 2017, 12:26:49 AM
The raw and unfiltered truth


https://www.jstor.org/stable/108001?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents (https://www.jstor.org/stable/108001?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents)

Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: pomodoro on March 17, 2017, 01:08:37 AM
The raw and unfiltered truth


https://www.jstor.org/stable/108001?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents (https://www.jstor.org/stable/108001?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents)


Well done! This looks to be the original discovery , well before leedskalin. 
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 17, 2017, 06:11:19 AM

Well done! This looks to be the original discovery , well before leedskalin.


Yes. It appears so. I haven't finished reading it yet but all the info seems to be there
No psychobabble
Still looking for the complete original source, this was an excerpt in a publication.
1830's or something
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: pomodoro on March 17, 2017, 09:07:17 AM
I think that is the complete artice.

Watkins also published a book called
A Popular Sketch of Electro-magnetism, Or Electro-dynamics

found on google books, I haven't had time to read that one.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 17, 2017, 04:58:40 PM
That site has many articles of the royal society journals
And as sad as the fact is......


All of the experiments found in Ed's book
"Magnetic Current"
Can be found in articles published in the royal society of London
From 1826-1854


He read these articles and compiled a list of strange effects not
commonly talked about in science.
When seen in perspective and contextual detail, we find that
Ed Leedskalnin was full of a bunch of Hooplah.


That being said, his work does present these phenomena in a way
that the common man can perform himself.
Although presented in a pseudoscientific manner, that distracts from
the true knowledge.


I therefore recommend that all followers of Ed. L.:
 Take the time to read through the royal society journals.
In fact, everyone should do so, as they contain original writings
From some of the greats, like Faraday,
And brilliant minds we never hear about in history.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 17, 2017, 05:19:17 PM
Back to the topic


The royal society article describes a method of locking the PMH
Using a permanent magnet rather than electric current.
This proves that the effect is not solely electrical in nature.
But can be purely magnetic.


We know through galvanic degradation that there exists
electrical potentials within the metal. but we have no
point of reference to measure their magnitude.


We know that the magnetic field is inverted or contracted.
The release of which, causes a field expansion, rather than a
field collapse.
This is conceptually the inverse of a field collapse, when the
magnetic circuit is broken.


Due to the interrelated nature of the magnetic and electric
components of electromagnetism - it stands to reason that
a circuit of electrical nature can be made to perform this action.


I propose that an electrical conductor of paramagnetic material
be fashioned internally to the center of the pmh
To act as a 'wire' placed in parallel path of the magnetic current.
Around this shall be placed a copper wire of very thin, coated or insulated
coils, of several turns.
This cored coil then be inserted into a groove in the middle of the
PMH material.
Holes be drilled or grooved so as to exit the copper wires from the device.


When magnetized or "locked", the PMH as well as the core of the electric coil
will conduct a perpetual magnetic current.
And if there is any fluctuation or change in magnetism internally
We should be able to detect it on the coil.
Such a test, if successful, would warrant construction of a very large PMH



Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: pomodoro on March 18, 2017, 11:20:35 AM
Isn't it the alignment of electron spins that causes ferromagnetism?  Its not a perpetual current
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on March 18, 2017, 05:55:58 PM
If you wound coils on a toroid coil form like the pmh and pulsed them with dc would you get transformer action between the coils.
Would it be femf


Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: pix on March 18, 2017, 06:18:23 PM

There is no mystery in Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder.
It exploits simple phenomena of soft magnetic materials HYSTERESIS.
Soft iron once magnetized  it keeps domains aligned, and as it is in closed loop - this magnetism keeps the steel bar attached to "U" bar.
You need to insert some energy to destroy domains aligment and align them in opposite side.
That's why every transformer has energy loses due to hysteresis.


Regards,
Pix



Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 04, 2017, 02:01:44 PM
Femf
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Zephir on April 04, 2017, 02:52:27 PM
Quote
There is no mystery in Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder. It exploits simple phenomena of soft magnetic materials HYSTERESIS. Soft iron once magnetized  it keeps domains aligned, and as it is in closed loop - this magnetism keeps the steel bar attached to "U" bar. You need to insert some energy to destroy domains aligment and align them in opposite side. That's why every transformer has energy loses due to hysteresis.

This doesn't explain, why such a material must be encircled with closed wire coil for to manifest itself. BTW just the soft magnetic materials have hysteresis eliminated. If you would remove (or just interrupt) the coil, you would see immediately, that the remanent magnetization or hysteresis has absolutely nothing to do with  Leedskalnin's effect.


"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 04, 2017, 09:31:01 PM
Air core
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 04, 2017, 09:41:51 PM
Three phase
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Zephir on April 04, 2017, 11:49:51 PM
The size of pictures is indirectly proportional their informational value, because only dumb people cannot learn to resize their pictures.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: pix on April 05, 2017, 11:00:57 AM

This doesn't explain, why such a material must be encircled with closed wire coil for to manifest itself. BTW just the soft magnetic materials have hysteresis eliminated. If you would remove (or just interrupt) the coil, you would see immediately, that the remanent magnetization or hysteresis has absolutely nothing to do with  Leedskalnin's effect.


"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken


No, it doesn't need to be encircled with CLOSED wire coil for manifest residual magnetism.
Every hysteresis loop chart of soft steel is "wide", only special magnetic steels like Permalloy has very narrow hysteresis loop to reduce magnetization losses.
Please look at those replications on YouTube. I did also my own experiment.
All this Leedskalnin stuff is related to hysteresis of soft magnetic steels .Basic stuff from high shool physics lessons. No mystery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_hysteresis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWxNlPnwHtw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa4oBUBSEzs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=832qz3s1M-s


Regards,
Pix
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Zephir on April 05, 2017, 12:10:23 PM
I indeed know about magnetic hysteresis, but this is not what the Leedskalnin's effect is about, as it works even with extremely soft magnetic materials without any residual ferromagnetism, like the ferrite cores.
Ledskalnin's effect is just about mimicking of remanence effect with external coil. You didn't understand the subject, sorry.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: pix on April 05, 2017, 12:25:51 PM

I indeed know about magnetic hysteresis, but this is not what the Leedskalnin's effect is about, as it works even with extremely soft magnetic materials without any residual ferromagnetism, like the ferrite cores.
Ledskalnin's effect is just about mimicking of remanence effect with external coil. You didn't understand the subject, sorry.


I do understand perfectly.
Every magnetic material has residual magnetic properties, some more, some less.
You did stated that to manifest Leedskalnin effect coil has to be closed- and I showed that it is not true.
Magnetic residual field is inherent to all magnetic materials, and as long as you keep magnetic loop closed after magnetization- it stays there. To eliminate this residual magnetization some energy must be used to create opposite direction magnetic field to cancel residual magnetization. How much magnetic energy has to be used- you can see looking at hysteresis loop of given material.
It is called "Degaussing". And it is that energy lost in power AC transformers.
Sorry, no mystery here.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: tinman on April 05, 2017, 01:01:18 PM

I do understand perfectly.
Every magnetic material has residual magnetic properties, some more, some less.
You did stated that to manifest Leedskalnin effect coil has to be closed- and I showed that it is not true.
Magnetic residual field is inherent to all magnetic materials, and as long as you keep magnetic loop closed after magnetization- it stays there. To eliminate this residual magnetization some energy must be used to create opposite direction magnetic field to cancel residual magnetization. How much magnetic energy has to be used- you can see looking at hysteresis loop of given material.
It is called "Degaussing". And it is that energy lost in power AC transformers.
Sorry, no mystery here.

That is not correct.
The PMH effect is not due to residual magnetization,as once the loop is broken,there is no need to degause the magnetic material.
This can be seen when using a ferrite core-no residual magnetization remains once the loop is broken.

Try finding the north and south end of this !residual! field,in the looped PMH.


Brad
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: pix on April 05, 2017, 01:30:23 PM

That is not correct.
The PMH effect is not due to residual magnetization,as once the loop is broken,there is no need to degause the magnetic material.
This can be seen when using a ferrite core-no residual magnetization remains once the loop is broken.

Try finding the north and south end of this !residual! field,in the looped PMH.


Brad
This depends from magnetic material. Some soft steels keeps residual magnetic properties , like nails magnetized by strong neodymium magnet.
In the case of soft steel, as long as magnetic loop stays  closed steel domains stays aligned , once loop is broken ( energy is used) residual magnetism no longer exists because for domains less energetic state is when they are misaligned.
Anyway, if You still like to search for "free energy Holy Grail" in Ed Leedskalnins "magnet" feel feree :-)
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Doug1 on April 05, 2017, 02:14:38 PM
Ed did not use ferite materials. The PMH is not about residual fields. It can be used to clarify a number of theories and used as tool or device for observations. Building one is a ok project but you can also use the electric break section from a wheel chair motor. I had one stayed charge for a number of years even thought i lost it or threw it away at one point but it turned up in a small decorative wicker basket. I think it was sitting for about 5 yrs. I flashed it with a 12 volt battery and left it . Inside the break is a hefty spring that will push the keeper away if the magnet is turned off. When I broke the connection of the wires the keeper flew off and bounced off a wall.
  It really just locks the flux into an endless loop so long as the wires are connected the same way an endless loop. Break the wire connection and the field collapses. I would venture a guess if you were able to break the keeper away and you were prepared for it as a test you could measure a temperature rise in the coil if it was kept connected when the keeper is forced apart. It proves if a magnetic field is given a path that is a continuous loop and if the flux was created with a current that is looped they will continue indefinitely. It's all about closed loops, ya know that thing that eludes so many. The impossible non existing possibility that there might be something more then a beginning and end to everything. Everything is born and everything dies. So where did it come from and where did it go? Poof in and poof out I guess. 
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: tinman on April 05, 2017, 03:18:50 PM
Ed did not use ferite materials. The PMH is not about residual fields. It can be used to clarify a number of theories and used as tool or device for observations. Building one is a ok project but you can also use the electric break section from a wheel chair motor. I had one stayed charge for a number of years even thought i lost it or threw it away at one point but it turned up in a small decorative wicker basket. I think it was sitting for about 5 yrs. I flashed it with a 12 volt battery and left it . Inside the break is a hefty spring that will push the keeper away if the magnet is turned off. When I broke the connection of the wires the keeper flew off and bounced off a wall.
  It really just locks the flux into an endless loop so long as the wires are connected the same way an endless loop. Break the wire connection and the field collapses. I would venture a guess if you were able to break the keeper away and you were prepared for it as a test you could measure a temperature rise in the coil if it was kept connected when the keeper is forced apart. It proves if a magnetic field is given a path that is a continuous loop and if the flux was created with a current that is looped they will continue indefinitely. It's all about closed loops, ya know that thing that eludes so many. The impossible non existing possibility that there might be something more then a beginning and end to everything. Everything is born and everything dies. So where did it come from and where did it go? Poof in and poof out I guess.

Doug

The wires do not have to remain connected-the coil can be open once the keeper is magnetically locked.


Brad
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Zephir on April 05, 2017, 07:28:38 PM
Quote
The wires do not have to remain connected-the coil can be open once the keeper is magnetically locked.

But after then it's just the magnetic remanence effect, which @pix is talking here.
Once we use ferrite with no remanence, then we'll see the true Leeskalnin effect (https://youtu.be/r9Kg69cQteg?t=132).
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: leonelogb on April 07, 2017, 02:28:59 AM
I congratulate to  sm0ky2 for start this thread and the way that how he has been share these information to us.
And to Other guys with excelent knowlege!  ;D             
Iknow that the PMH is the KEY but...  I have been trying to know how the PMH work and I have some questions.
What is exactly in moving?  ???
can I test this moving?  ???
why or how it put more speed to electron? :-\

Thanks!
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: dieter on April 07, 2017, 05:25:11 AM
there are several attempts to explain rhe PMH. Maybe the most plausible is, both sides are temporarily magnetized and each side prevents the other side from relaxing the magnetic domains.


Even if trivial, it does contain a nifty effect that may be exploited somehow.


I don't think anything is moving tho.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: dieter on April 07, 2017, 05:45:24 AM
Well let's take this a little further.


Assume we'd have a torus core instead. If we pulse it once, the core will hold the magnetism idefinitely. like the PMH. This were the first Rams, a bit each core. Anyway. Now, assume our secondary pickup coil is at load only after the pulse ended. If the core now somehow leaks magnetism then the strength will drop and current will flow, while the primary being passive, is not affected, or could even work in pickup mode temporarily too.


How to make a toroid leak? Maybe by injecting ultrashort counterpulses, to initiate a recursively exponentional domain relaxation? Maybe by a short cut over the center? Or by external fields? We do not need to compensate a PM here, only initiate the natural relaxation.


Interesting stuff.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 07, 2017, 12:58:28 PM
I congratulate to  sm0ky2 for start this thread and the way that how he has been share these information to us.
And to Other guys with excelent knowlege!  ;D             
Iknow that the PMH is the KEY but...  I have been trying to know how the PMH work and I have some questions.
What is exactly in moving?  ???
can I test this moving?  ???
why or how it put more speed to electron? :-\

Thanks!

https://youtu.be/qHrBhgwq__Q
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 07, 2017, 01:35:28 PM
Physics
The study of God's creation.

Look at our solar system, the sun is ac its magnetic field flips every 11 years, the planets are dc.
The sun is a transmitter the planets are receivers, the energy from the sun powers the planets.
Build a receiver not a transmitter.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: leonelogb on April 07, 2017, 11:06:29 PM
Thank you Dieter and Searcher1o1 for you help, I appreciate it ;D Very good contribution :o

What I think is that the PMH works like the magnetron of the microwave, but the two coils have equal poles facing each other like the Magnetron and if I put a coil between the pmh fed with a signal from an antenna feeding it; This should increase the output power, but still I do not understand how it really works. :'(, but I feel that I ::)'m close
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 07, 2017, 11:22:18 PM
SM was getting pulsed DC from his system, i personally dont think he was rectifying the output with diodes, his coils were putting out DC.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 10, 2017, 12:55:46 AM
I was thinking about the toroids in SM large unit, was he using them as current sensors to switch the gates.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 10, 2017, 01:35:25 AM
Setting up my switch
Can easily be set up three or four phases, actually any phase.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 10, 2017, 01:39:03 AM
Using photointerupters to run the gates
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 10, 2017, 02:22:41 PM
http://tpupower.net/required-reading.php

Quote
        They say that you cannot get more out of something then you put into it.
Then I think about that wire with the small kick when first turned on. . .
There in lies the secret my friend         
Sounds like femf
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 11, 2017, 03:23:29 PM
Quote
      Imagine that you have a cannon which fires a projectile at a velocity of
1000 miles an hour.
The amount of energy held in the moving projectile until converted is lets
say a figure of ten.
It will never become more then our figure of ten.
The energy will slowly dissipate until the projectile slows and begins to fall
to the ground and it's finale dissipation will occur when it strikes the earth
or the object it was aimed at.
Now, we have been told that there will never be more energy available
from the projectile other then what was given to it when first fired into the
sky, EXCEPT for the following example:
Now, there can be a further dissipation of energy if the projectile was
carrying a charge of dynamite to explode on impact as well.
Do you see how the different things all relate here?
Let me expand your mind for a moment....
Suppose that the projectile which you fired was another cannon?
Now you have another cannon traveling at 1000 miles an hour...
Now, if you could fire the second cannon, the projectile coming from it
would be traveling at a velocity of 1000 miles an hour after being fired.
However, since the cannon is already traveling at a speed of 1000 miles
an hour when you
fire it, the speed of the second fired projectile is essentially now 2000
miles per hour and the energy available to convert from the second
   projectile, is now twice the ten available from the first projectile!
You now have energy availability of twenty to convert from the second
projectile.
Now, what if the projectile fired from the second cannon were another
cannon and you fired it.
Since the second cannon is traveling at 2000 miles per hour then the
projectile you fire from it would make 3000 miles per hour, and so on and
so on....
The energy released from the speed of multiple projectiles increases the
energy available to be dissipated upon impact many fold!
The faster the speed of ANYTHING the more energy will be available for
conversion.   
Thought i would try an design a circuit that would do this, this is what i came up with, the buck boost the bottom circuit i believe meets the requirements.
Input welcomed
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: dieter on April 12, 2017, 07:02:49 PM
If you fire the second cannon from the first projectile, the blowback will significantly slow down the first projectile.


Searcher101, that may happen in a circuit too. Other than that, I do not really understand your circuit.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 20, 2017, 10:17:05 PM
Mag amp
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 22, 2017, 01:41:56 PM
Back in the day magnetic amplifiers were used in tv's what you wanna bet the tv that SM talks about used a mag amp, the one that imploded.
The pos feedback causes a coupling with the control circuit.
Its not a limitation it needs to be exploited.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 22, 2017, 02:09:26 PM
Quote
    Yes there is a genuine gyroscopic effect when the units are on.
Everybody has noticed that when held and in operation, the units have a
definite vibration and have a gyroscopic effect.
They seam to resist being moved through the air.
When placed on a smooth surface it is very pronounced.
Some of you should think about that.
17 Rotation of field. . . How many people think about that.
If you could have a field that you could think of as a big ball.
And you could rotate it in two directions what would the ramifications
be?   
Two air cores magnetic field in one ccw magnetic field in the other cw.
The device he showed in the garage vid was different from the original device, using only one core.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 22, 2017, 02:15:30 PM
Quote
    The point I wish to make here is that also along with the 500 volt
DC is, yes, you guessed it, the 5 volts three amp AC current!
They are both completely independent of each other except for
some very interesting things I will mention to you some other
time..
First of all, obviously you can have several different output
components in the power output signal.
You can have DC and AC together without any problem.
Why did that mystery person claim that it was a foolish to say DC output
with a 5k Hz component?
Because he was deliberately trying to mislead anyone who might want to
figure out what I was doing. 
Mag amp
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 22, 2017, 03:24:42 PM
Quote
Has anyone ever done any research on what happens when we
create a magnetic field and revolve it faster and faster.
What changes and at what speed or frequency of the pulsed field
do things suddenly change?
SM knew more than Jack Durbin gave him credit for.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: Searcher1o1 on April 23, 2017, 03:05:16 PM
If the magnetic field is proportional to electron flow  through a coil what happens when the magnetic field exceeds electron flow.
Title: Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
Post by: leonelogb on April 25, 2017, 12:22:32 AM
If the magnetic field is proportional to electron flow  through a coil what happens when the magnetic field exceeds electron flow.

According to the patent from Energy-Transfer Systems  3,085,189


Quote
It will be realised with Lenzs law in mind, that the electron motion tends to be equal and opposite to the electron motion which gives rise to the travelling wave, that is, the motion is a rotational one about the lines of magnetic force with a longitudinal drift superposed. Work is done in producing a net acceleration of the electrons, and consequently there is introduced a substantial resistive component into the network.