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Author Topic: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form  (Read 6068 times)

Offline sm0ky2

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Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« on: February 24, 2017, 05:16:20 PM »
after years of experimentation using magnetism in perpetual loops


Passing these currents through non-magnetic materials
and even inductive materials


It stands to reason the possibility of developing a perpetual
'Electric current' or rather a perpetual magnetic current through
an inductive material loop.


How is this possible?
As we know, placing an insulator or inductor in a perpetual magnetic
current for extended periods of time, imparts a degree of magnetism
to these non magnetic materials.


If an inductive loop be made of a material altered in this way
and a perpetual magnetic current then be established
We should expect to see a perpetual inductive force.
Or a Permanent Electric Holder. (PEH)






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Offline webby1

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2017, 08:19:42 PM »
A little confused here,,

I take it that you are not talking about the dielectric between the plates of a capacitor or how that works,, but rather something different?


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2017, 04:24:33 PM »
A little confused here,,

I take it that you are not talking about the dielectric between the plates of a capacitor or how that works,, but rather something different?


I mean quite literally, an electric modality of the PMH


What is a PMH?  This is a continuous electromagnetic
flux loop, established as the magnetic propagation of current
through a loop of ferrous material.
It was first presented by Ed Leedskalnin- builder of Coral Castle.
Described in his book: Magnetic Currents
In this book are a series of electric and magnetic experiments
that display effects not understood by modern theory.


One of these experiments is the Perpetual Motion Holder (PMH).
Essentially the original device was a "u shaped" piece of
ferromagnetic material with a bar that can connect the two ends.
Opposite (attracting) coils are placed such that the N faces one end,
S faces the other.


An electric current of low potential is then pulsed through these coils,
This establishes a current which is almost entirely converted to the
magnetic domain by the ferrite. When this occurs the metal bar across
the ends will lock into place, like the 'keeper' of a horseshoe magnet.
Forever
Or until the magnetic lock is broken.  When broken, the collapsing
magnetic current will induce a pulse of electricity back through the
coils.
This can be minutes or years later in time.


Since then thousands of experiments have been shared, and repeated,
Giving rise to new shapes and forms of 'loops' to experiment with.


My thoughts are that, if we can eternally flux a magnetic current
We should be able to set up the same scenario electrically.




Offline shylo

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2017, 05:14:08 PM »
I think that is what I'm trying to do.
I have four sets of coils , I use one set at a time for rotation , the other three for generating.
They all take turns ,either generating or motoring.
The magnetic field produced in the motoring coils, affects the generating coils.
I'm finding 90 degrees apart for motoring seems to work.
But still looking
artv


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2017, 07:35:09 PM »
Thanks artv


This is a good read with some accompanying videos
It gives one scientists perspective of the effects.


http://www.leedskalnin.com/leedskalninsperpetualmotionholder.html


Just stumbled upon this today

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2017, 07:35:09 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2017, 07:48:30 PM »
Like if our coils themselves formed a loop
Toroid or whatever
And we used the magnetic air-core instead of metal


The effect seems not to care about the magnetic impedance
once the loop has been established




Offline pomodoro

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 01:12:18 AM »
Doubtv  there is anything OU in this. I discovered years ago that it works well without the special  winding. A normal solenoid type winding does the job. In the end I figured out that all I was making was a type of permanent magnet when the keeper was put on. The energy you normally get back when the field collapsed is stored as a magnetic field. Then, then you physically apply work in forcing the keeper off, you kill the magnetic field and you get back the energy through the could.  In other words, energy is stored in a magnetic field for a long time and the same energy is released later on when you collapse the field, except that the action of pulling the keeper off costs you extra work.

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 01:12:18 AM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 01:15:10 AM »

Doubtv  there is anything OU in this. I discovered years ago that it works well without the special  winding. A normal solenoid type winding does the job. In the end I figured out that all I was making was a type of permanent magnet when the keeper was put on. The energy you normally get back when the field collapsed is stored as a magnetic field. Then, then you physically apply work in forcing the keeper off, you kill the magnetic field and you get back the energy through the coil In other words, energy is stored in a magnetic field for a long time and the same energy is released later on when you collapse the field, except that the action of pulling the keeper off costs you extra work.  It is rather special how the keeper needs to be put on after the current is applied, someone who studied magnets field probably has an answer. I did not take any readings of power in/out.

Offline tinman

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2017, 08:34:25 AM »
So,dose the PMH show us a magnetic mono field?

I mean,if there exists a magnetic field within the core,until the loop is broken,then where is north,and where is south(so to speak)-where dose each pole start,and where do they finish ?.

If we know the magnetic field exists within the core,but there is no two pole's--is this not a mono magnetic field?.


Brad

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2017, 12:13:22 PM »
Hi Brad,

I think the same question could be asked in connection with a normal toroidal core: we wind say a full single layer coil on it and then we input DC current to the coil (making sure to avoid core saturation). Where are the poles in the closed toroidal core? 
Albeit not as straitforward comparison to a toroidal core case, what happens to the poles when we close the two prongs of a normal horse shoe magnet with a soft iron keeper? (Magnetic field strength strongly gets reduced outside around the original prongs.)

I would not consider the magnetic field in such cases a mono magnetic field, I would call it a closed magnetic field, the magnetic field strength may be uniformly distributed volume-wise inside a toridal core.  And the magnetic N or S poles could not be distinguished from each other in this case by a field polarity meter.  OF course, any assymetry in winding, cross section of the core etc may let some magnetic field leak out what could already be sensed by very sensitive sensors, both strength and pole orientation wise.

Gyula

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2017, 12:13:22 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2017, 02:09:18 PM »
Hi Brad,

I think the same question could be asked in connection with a normal toroidal core: we wind say a full single layer coil on it and then we input DC current to the coil (making sure to avoid core saturation). Where are the poles in the closed toroidal core? 
Albeit not as straitforward comparison to a toroidal core case, what happens to the poles when we close the two prongs of a normal horse shoe magnet with a soft iron keeper? (Magnetic field strength strongly gets reduced outside around the original prongs.)

I would not consider the magnetic field in such cases a mono magnetic field, I would call it a closed magnetic field, the magnetic field strength may be uniformly distributed volume-wise inside a toridal core.  And the magnetic N or S poles could not be distinguished from each other in this case by a field polarity meter.  OF course, any assymetry in winding, cross section of the core etc may let some magnetic field leak out what could already be sensed by very sensitive sensors, both strength and pole orientation wise.

Gyula

So ,when we pulse a coil that is rapped around a toroid core,the magnetic field continues to exist within that core until we reverse pulse the coil-at which time the magnetic field is now !!spinning!!? in the opposite direction around the toroid core for all time,or until such time as we pulse it once again,with the opposite polarity.

Even though we cannot measure a voltage from the coil,due to the magnetic field not changing in time,we know that the magnetic field still exist within the core-even when you short the two ends of the coil.

So ,not only are we trying to build a new electric field around the coil when we switch polarity,but also trying the reverse the magnetic field that exists within the core it self.

Also,if the fields cannot be distinguished from one another,how can it not be one field?-a magnetic field without a north and south(as we have termed it). It's much like mixing red paint with yellow paint at a 1:1 ratio--we then have only orange paint.


Brad

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2017, 02:28:35 PM »
see answers below
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 09:52:06 PM by gyulasun »


Offline gyulasun

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2017, 09:35:53 PM »
So, when we pulse a coil that is wrapped around a toroid core, the magnetic field continues to exist within that core

I believe it depends on the remanent magnetic properties of a particular toroid core. I think also that in case the 'perpetual motion holder' is made of solid iron, the several Amper input current involved behaves just like a normal magnetization process takes place to make a permanent magnet from a magnetizable material: it organizes the magnetic domains.
Here are two videos you may or may not have seen and I think these tests are a good example how this phenomena depends on the magnetic properties of the different cores:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHbQXnXK6Xc  Part 1 (9 minute long)   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsN2sr3U0PY    Part 2 (2 minute long)

Quote
until we reverse pulse the coil -at which time the magnetic field is now !!spinning!!? in the opposite direction around the toroid core for all time, or until such time as we pulse it once again, with the opposite polarity.

I do not know whether the field or whatever inside is 'spinning' or not, I think a reverse pulse would rearrange the direction of the magnetic domains and the field would also be maintained like in the earlier polarity case.

Quote
Even though we cannot measure a voltage from the coil, due to the magnetic field not changing in time, we know that the magnetic field still exist within the core -even when you short the two ends of the coil.

Well, a test done at and from video time 4:00 in Part 1 of the above link shows the behaviour of two core types in this respect.

Quote
So, not only are we trying to build a new electric field around the coil when we switch polarity, but also trying the reverse the magnetic field that exists within the core itself.

Yes, when we reverse the direction of the input current we invariably flip the magnetic polarity exerted onto the core too.

Quote
Also, if the fields cannot be distinguished from one another, how can it not be one field? -a magnetic field without a north and south (as we have termed it). It's much like mixing red paint with yellow paint at a 1:1 ratio--we then have only orange paint.

 Let me suggest the following thought experiment: suppose we are able to move a tiny compass inside a toroidal core on which a coil is biased with DC current (or we could move a tiny compass inside a perpetual motion holder).

Suppose we position the compass inside the toroid core at 12 o'clock and it shows say North to the right and shows South to the left of the 12 i.e. the compass would set in tangentially to the core circle at 12 o'clock. I think when we would move the tiny compass say in the cw direction within the core body, the compass would always show a leading North as it would move ahead in cw direction, it would never turn direction so that a leading South would never come somewhere within the core during this cw direction movement. We could perform any full circle in cw, we would always have a leading North indicated on the tiny compass.
When we would reverse the input current direction, only then would our tiny compass change direction.

This is how I see this. Of course I am sure I cannot answer several things which may crop up with this topic.

Gyula

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2017, 09:43:23 PM »
double post, deleted


Offline Searcher1o1

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2017, 12:17:04 AM »
So if the magnetic field continues to circulate the electric field never collapses.
 
Evidently a ferrous core cant be used in a dc pulsed system.

Went down the same road about a month ago.

Russ left a pmh hanging for two years and when he broke the magnetic field the electric field collapsed and lit leds.

Was the TPU air core or maybe a single strand of wire.

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Re: Leedskalnin's Perpetual Motion Holder in Electic form
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2017, 12:17:04 AM »

 

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