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Author Topic: A new topic that is actually old. Ribbon magnet array enclosing a magnet :-)  (Read 1808 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Found this drawing that I made back in 2010. Found it on my backup disc just now. I wonder what I was thinking when I made this drawing :-)
The idea was probably to create a magnetic field around a magnet, and let the attractive and repulsive force around the magnet to stay constant, while make it possible for the ribbon itself to slide or roll over and under these rollers.


I have not built it. It was just an idea that I had back then. I wonder still where the problems are :-)


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Offline dieter

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I would say, any attraction and repulsion between magnet and ribbon will compensate eachother.


Additionally, flux linkage is highly dynamic and will easily bend to the sides when there is an opposite pole.


Probably I misunderstood your idea, but it seems to me like a static arrangement that will find it's ideal equilibrium once, like a Stone, rolling down a slope.


Offline dieter

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For instance,"attraction area", take a close look: while a part of the ribbon undeed is allowed to get closer, further down the ribbon an other part is forced to move away, still in the attraction area.
What goes in must come out, in a PM arrangement without any dynamic magnetic fluctuation.

Offline sm0ky2

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Reminds me of John Searl.
If you wrap the ribbon around the rollers
In the manner prescribed by Jim Murray
You have the SEG


Which, according to independent witnesses
Flew a UFO in the late 60's early 70's
There is an arrest record, which shows he spent
3 days in jail for flying the machine without a flight plan
And accidentally destroying someone's home.


He was later imprisoned for nearly 30 years for producing
His own electricity and not paying the local electrical utility.
The laws in those days basically said that you owe the power
company for ANY electricity used in the home.
The law made no provision for self-generated electricity.
Therefore: in those days, if you ran your own generator
You owed the power company for the electricity you used.
Luckily this is no longer the case, and has not been since
they changed the laws in 1976. Forcing electrical firms to
disentigrate on the corporate level, by separation of electrical
Generation from its' distribution.
Thus it became 'legal' to run a home based generator without
incurring a penalty from the local utility ( only in some areas)
By the mid 80-s, personal power generation was starting to become
Commonplace, and the laws across the us were modified.
 but Searl was not released until 1988.


 he made a valiant effort to recreate his technology
Only to die without having again succeeded.


What brought interest to this situation (for me) was a gentleman that
had worked with Searl in the 60's. Richard Compton.
He vouched for Searl's story at a time when he thought John was dead.
The two were later reunited and worked together again in the 90's.
The existence of one of the original researchers, who asserted credence
to the existence of a working SEG, promoted me to research the technology.


I'll leave the controversial SEG out of this discussion and instead speak
On the magnetic phenomena that led Searl to research magnetism.
That is the situation presented when ferromagnetic materials are placed
Around the circumference of a round magnet. (Ring, disk, cylinder, sphere, etc.)


What happens is, the induced fields in proximity to one another, are induced
In opposite polarity to one another.
This is in direct contradiction with the magnetic theory that the induced field
aligns with the field that induced it.
Proof? Observe the equal spacing that occurs between the ferrites.
And that pushing on one will move all of them around the circle.
Magnetically- the forces that drive this action are synonymous with the SMOT.
However - I point out now that the forces imparted upon the rollers are not equal
To the force applied to the permanent magnet that causes the motion.
Several variables can cause these forces to be greater or less than the input force.
This is what Searl was attempting to exploit.


Which (from the looks of your setup) is the same thing your ribbon is trying to do.


If you have two identical magnets facing each other
With a ferrite placed an inequal distance between them
The induced field will align with the closer magnet
It will attract to the close magnet and repel the far one.
The situation this creates is that the ferrite is attracted to
 the magnet with greater force than the magnet would do
by itself.
The same can be done with magnetic repulsion.
Which leads to energy conservation anomalies within the
conservative field.


Offline Low-Q

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I would say, any attraction and repulsion between magnet and ribbon will compensate eachother.


Additionally, flux linkage is highly dynamic and will easily bend to the sides when there is an opposite pole.


Probably I misunderstood your idea, but it seems to me like a static arrangement that will find it's ideal equilibrium once, like a Stone, rolling down a slope.
Yes, that might be very true. In case you misunderstood the idea, I can try to explain in words:


The two ribbons are an array of magnets attached to ribbons or belts. It does not show the small separation between multiple magnets - just one long flexible magnet.
The rollers is fixed to the big round magnet (doesn't have to be round magnet), so they follow the magnet. The rollers works almost like an unzipper/zipper that separate the belts in front of the big magnet, and close them behind the magnet.
The magnets on the belt is very close to each other, just enough to make it flexible. The magnetic field around such array is solely angular to the length of the array.
That means that the array experience magnetic force strongest where the field from itself and from the big magnet is in line with each other.
The horizontal upper and lower part of the array has little force influence from the big magnet at left and right directions, but the vertical parts of the array has much more influence. Therefor, I assume that the force in front and behind the magnet is dominant.


The shape of the array, that is done by the rollers, will follow the big magnet no matter where it is along the array, but the array is not actually moving - just the shape is moving. That means that the magnetic field from the array is following the big magnet. On the other hand, since the big magnet is not able to move back or forth inside the field, it will probably just not go anywhere.
I just assumed this design would work similar to a non insulated long copper coil where a battery with neo-magnets in each end will slide along the coil as the magnetic field induced in the coil follows the battery and magnets when the coil is still stationary.
https://youtu.be/J9b0J29OzAU


This might cause more confusion. Let me know if you understood or not :-)


Vidar
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 07:46:28 AM by Low-Q »

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Offline Low-Q

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@dieter


I think you are right about the forces that cancel each other out. I was thinking of a bubble in water. It is buoyant because the force of pressure is stronger under it than above it, and that will cause the bubble to rise even if the water is stationary.
The water moves downwards relative to the bubble, but if the bubble is stopped, the water does not start to flow down around the bubble.
The magnet that is inside the magnet array, could be that bubble if the forces in front and back are different, but they can't be.
It could be very similar to the bubble in water, except the water is replaced by an array of magnets, and the bubble is replaced by a magnet.


I was thinking, what if the magnet is stationary. Would the array start "flowing" below and over it? I don't think so. Just like the water wont start flowing around a bubble if the bubble is stationary. Except there is most probably a big difference. The magnet does not want to go anywhere because there are no forces that push it through the array. Or is it? If so, we have a "bubble" that never reach the surface. :o


What do you think of this, dieter?

Offline dieter

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@ Vidar,


yes, I think I understand. But in your design as shown, the rollers build corners. If this works at all, you must get rid off the corners and have the ribbon get closer continously. Still, theoreticly impossible, although that doesn't mean much to me :)


@ Floor,
Yeah, Searl was the Capt'n Nemo of Free Energy. He even had his fancy Pilot Uniform. I felt sorry for him, yet very inspiring that he never gave up.


Tried to replicate some of his disc, without success, probably due to lack of the right materials, dedication and patience.

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Offline Low-Q

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Totally agree. I see it clear. The upper and lower front rollers and the last two rollers are forced via the ribbons in wrong direction due to the attraction and repulsion from the magnet - The ribbon actually counterforce the magnet via rollers because they are fixed to the magnet.
Deepest in my mind I knew this wouldn't work, but did not see the reason until now :)


@ Vidar,


yes, I think I understand. But in your design as shown, the rollers build corners. If this works at all, you must get rid off the corners and have the ribbon get closer continously. Still, theoreticly impossible, although that doesn't mean much to me :)


@ Floor,
Yeah, Searl was the Capt'n Nemo of Free Energy. He even had his fancy Pilot Uniform. I felt sorry for him, yet very inspiring that he never gave up.


Tried to replicate some of his disc, without success, probably due to lack of the right materials, dedication and patience.

 

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