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News announcements and other topics => News => Topic started by: spacecowboy on February 11, 2017, 04:59:53 PM

Title: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: spacecowboy on February 11, 2017, 04:59:53 PM
Some electronic knick knacks powered by water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTnMwShsacE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTnMwShsacE)
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: Cherryman on February 11, 2017, 05:02:31 PM
Some electronic knick knacks powered by water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTnMwShsacE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTnMwShsacE)


Great!  Nice work!


tnx for sharing.
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2017, 06:50:40 PM
Lovely little devices. Voltaic Pile, but nicely done. Tho, info on PH of the tapwater would be important.


Speaking of Voltaic Piles, it's possible to get a voltage from similar metals with individual molecular structure, eg. activated coal and graphite (this still decomposes to CO), probably worth trying two kinds of gold or other "nonoxidizing" metals.


Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: spacecowboy on February 11, 2017, 07:16:31 PM
Ive always found these kinds of water batteries amazing, they supply power for years to decades, Ive had some knick knacks running over ten years on just water, I dont add any additives, no salts or acids or anything else, thats what makes the electrodes last so long. I just add water when needed, and maybe once or twice a year clean the electrodes, sometimes not even that often. In my opinion thats a very long time for a battery to supply power, and looking at the rate of erosion on the electrodes they may still be supplying power 50 years from now. Oddly you dont hear much about these kinds of batteries at least not in the sense of them being useful, but they can be very useful. I guess just to much money is made on throw away or rechargeable batteries that dont supply power that long.
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2017, 07:29:40 PM
How much voltage gives you one Mg-Cu Element?
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: spacecowboy on February 11, 2017, 07:34:08 PM
Around 1.566 volts, the voltage is equal for all intents and purposes to a regular AA battery, however the current they supply is much lower. But its still enough to power things like Ive shown in the video. To increase the power output all one has to do is wire many in series. But on the up side they supply power for many years.
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2017, 07:57:39 PM
Delivering little current is why they last so long. Add some lemmon juice and they run down quickly. But sometimes it's better to have a low max. current.


Also, water can be controlled, while a drypile (eg. Duluc Drypile) cannot.


I wonder what happens when you use destilled water (PH 4) or demineralized water at PH 7.
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: spacecowboy on February 11, 2017, 08:07:00 PM
Actually I have used distilled water, and about every other kind. The magnesium makes its own ions, so no added electrolyte is needed. As to if I had a choice to buy throw away batteries that supply power to run my wall clocks maybe 6 months, or would I use a water battery that will power it for many many years, Ill choose the water battery. As to adding acids to the water, yeah I know that will increase the current, but at the expense of the electrodes wasting away much faster. Thats why most batteries dont last long, the acids they add destroy the electrodes. When your electrodes are gone so is your power. And of course thats why rechargeable batteries eventually stop working, they dry out, and when your water is gone, also so is your power. Ever notice your rechargeable batteries feel warm or hot, thats because the water is drying out in them, and that increases the drying out process even faster. I still think water batteries have great potential, given a single water battery can power a wall clock, or a joule thief led light, or a motorized rotating stand, and many other things, that of course are low current devices. But one can increase the power output by adding more water batteries in series, as Ive even recharged regular rechargeable AA batteries with water batteries. But just my take on it there, knows opinions vary.
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2017, 09:00:26 PM
I didn't mean it is bad or something. But what do you mean by magnets create their own ions? Are there magnets involved? Is there a video about construction details?
Edit: Ah, I misread that, nvm.
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: spacecowboy on February 11, 2017, 10:13:35 PM
I said the magnesium makes its own ions, the center bar is pure magnesium, the coil around the bar is pure copper, that is your electrodes, they dont touch, just close, but not to close, thats what a water battery consist of other then water, must have been a misunderstanding. Yeah some of my videos I show the water battery out and apart, I dont recall which ones, you can get the general idea by what I said above, by the way if you use one to power a clock, you must have a capacitor across the terminals of your electrodes, from positive to negative, try different ones till you get one that keeps the clock going. If the clock stops, be it an hour to hours, you have a minor boo boo, try add more copper to the coil, move the coil windings closer or further apart, or move the copper closer or further from the bar. Once it runs a day, you most likely got it right and it will then run for years, assuming you dont have any electrical shorts from erosion. Its not an exact science, there is some kind of resonance going on between the coil and the bar, but thats just my opinion, others may disagree, and once you get that coil right, as I said it will run for years.
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: dieter on February 12, 2017, 03:45:07 PM
That's interesting, thanks a lot. It seems there is more to it then, than a simple voltaic cell.
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: pomodoro on February 12, 2017, 04:44:01 PM
Every single electron coming out of that battery is from oxidation of magnesium and the corresponding reduction of water at the copper. At those current levels , distilled water has enough salts still in there to allow some conduction. You need to use triple distilled water or special milliQ water and it must be kept under nitrogen gas. Carbon dioxide from the air immediately makes  the water conduct  as it forms carbonic acid. Any oxygen present is easy reduced , more so than water and gives a maximum current limited by its diffusion in the water.  There are many unseen factors even in such an easy cell.
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: spacecowboy on February 12, 2017, 11:32:01 PM
Agrees, strange but amazing. Ill tell you another type of water battery I tried. I used magnesium flint rods, people use them to start fires. They worked but were very problematic. and they erode way to fast. But I did get it to work, but it took 2 of those kinds of water batteries in series to run a wall clock. Where as in my other water batteries using pure magnesium only took one water battery. Also noticed that one of the problems with magnesium flint rods, other then the fact they did not contain enough magnesium. Was when the tiny bubbles that form on those rods, if a few bubbles crossed over from the bar and touched the other electrode, the copper. That shorted it out. But then a tap knocking the bubbles out would then make the battery work again. I never had those problems using pure magnesium rods. But using magnesium flint rods are problematic.
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: dieter on February 15, 2017, 05:21:38 AM
That is most likely due to the iron in the flint, as Mg is only an addition, as far as I know.


Useful is the "Voltage Row" of elements (don't know the correct english term, anyhow), by using one element with a high negative and an other with a high positive potential, you can get up to 5.91 Volts per cell.( Fluor and Lithium) Easily obtainable materials are eg. Calcium (as in plaster, cement, concrete) with -2.87V (Magnesium has -2.36V, Copper +0.16... I have no idea how this boils down to your 1.5V). So, some concrete, a paper tissue as a membrane and a bunch of tooth paste should give you a juicy battery as well. Not for years, but maybe a month. I think John Hutchison did that.


I also like extremly available materials that you would find everywhere, such as some scrap iron trash and a bunch of coal from your camp fire.


But I don't wanna get too far offtopic.
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: spacecowboy on February 15, 2017, 02:22:32 PM
The flint rods will work, but they are to problematic later on as they erode way to fast. Best to stick to just the pure magnesium rods, they last for years to decades even, and have the least problems, Ive had some powering a few things over ten years. The occasional once a year cleaning of the electrodes is recommended. And of course you must add water when needed.
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 15, 2017, 05:04:27 PM

This maybe useless information (my brain holds a lot of that)

The deposits you are "cleaning off" are either of two
Chemical compounds, depending on temperature and
(Indirectly) electrical potential during formation.


1) CuMg2 - a hexagonal crystalline structure, which if
alloyed is specific proportions with lithium (yLix) forms
vacancies or "holes" in the crystals, which can accept
H2 molecules, which are released upon heating.
This makes this substance an ideal Hydrogen storage substrate.
The proportional relationship between variables x and y control
the storage capacity and temperature dependent rate of
H2 release.




Or


2) MgCu2 - a cubic, piezoelectric crystalline structure,
With similar properties to SiO2


Not sure which one you are creating in your water batteries.


Many people will try to tell you that the copper does not break down
during this process. This is actually an inaccurate statement.
The Cu<->Mg galvanization in fact corrodes both Anode and Cathode
At either of two specific rates, in the higher of temperature ranges
The cathode will corrode faster than the Anode.


This is not unique among galvanic reactions, however it is not
common, as most galvanic reactions take place under conditions
that promote cathode stability.
Title: Re: Some electronic knick knacks powered by water.
Post by: pomodoro on February 16, 2017, 08:25:01 AM
Why such extremely unlikely combinations of two metals? Look for the simplest probability, which is of course Magnesium hydroxide. The OH- diffuses and meets the Mg2+ at the electrode forming insoluble hydroxide. Carbonate is also possible due to carbonic acid near the electrode. Copper won't corrode at all, its anodically protected by the Mg. Battery works due to the high over potential of hydrogen on Mg, otherwise the Mg will make its own H2 and corrode fast.