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Author Topic: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.  (Read 11435 times)

Offline aether22

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2017, 02:31:44 AM »
Quote from: dieter link

Most significant is the observation, that current flows, say, CW when the applied field strength increases, and CCW when it decreases. It usually increases as the distance between magnet and coil decreases, and visa versa. An increasing field strength and the resulting current flow however repels its (normally approaching) source by means of the reactive field, while a decreasing strength of the inducer causes the reactive field to attract the source, to hold it back, prevent it from moving away, brake it.
That is Lenz law 101.


Now, this implies, logically, that if I had a magnet that is reducing its field strength, the closer it gets to the coil will reduce instead of increase the field strength on approximation, and likewise increase the field strength while moving away, or in simple terms, it would be attracted when getting closer and pushed away when already moving away.
Ok, maybe I didn't understand your idea.


"Most significant is the observation, that current flows, say, CW when the applied field strength increases, and CCW when it decreases."


Ok, so if the pole of a permanent magnet approaches a coil, then first it will induce a voltage that will try and move the electrons in a CCW direction say such that it repels the magnets approach with the resultant magnetic field in the pickup coil.


And then if the impedance of the pickup coil is not too great, then when you move the magnet and coil apart they will attract which is to say the current in the coil is now CW.

Ok, so far we are on the same page, right?  That covers and agrees with everything above your "Lenz Law 101 comment".


"Now, this implies, logically, that if I had a magnet that is reducing its field strength, the closer it gets to the coil will reduce instead of increase the field strength on approximation"


hmmm, I think that sentence has some wrongly used words, but I think you are trying to say this "Therefore, if I had an electromagnet that approaches the pickup coil such that it's field was decreasing such that the pickup coils feels the field getting weaker as it approaches".


Ok, this is different to what I first thought you were saying, and it is an interesting idea.


Ok, so let's try and run this through some steps.


Step 1: Starting state, 2 air core electromagnets (one called the pickup coil) are separated by a distance of say 2cm, neither is energized.
note: Air cores simplify things a lot!
Step 2: One electromagnet passes a current, as it's magnetic field increases it loses electrical energy (a counter voltage is induced) from it's self inductance that would be regained if the field is later collapsed. Meanwhile the other electromagnet was open circuit and did not contribute.
Step 3: The electromagnet that passed the current reach it's maximum current from the applied voltage, at this point the is no more induction.
Step 4: The powered electromagnets field extends to the pickup coil that is 2 cm away, it begins to move closer to the pickup coil, but simultaneously the current through the electromagnet is decreased at a faster rate than the approach, as such there is indeed an induction in the pickup coil and the current flow from it has attracted the coil and given both kinetic energy AND electrical energy into the pickup coil!


So, what we must look at is what happened to the energy invested into the first electromagnet in which we invested electrical energy.
As you will recall the self impedance of that coil means that even if it were a superconductor, we would have had to invest energy to establish the magnetic field.


As such it needs to get that energy back from the collapse.


So now we see that the pickup coil is getting the energy from the collapse!  It is collecting the energy instead!


Let's say we have these 2 coils at a fixed distance, we energize one establishing a magnetic field while the other is open circuit, then we decrease the magnetic field in the energized one while we tap the energy from the second inductively coupled coil, did it work?  Yes!
Is it Free Energy?  No!
Because they can't both tap that same energy and both get the full amount from it!


This same inductive effect is what is happening with your generator, except it isn't a generator as the induction is not created by the approach by transformer effects!  You have created something like an automotive ignition coil!


It is NOT a generator as the motion does not induce the energy, actually it opposes the energy induced in the pickup coil!
If the motion was faster and if the collapse was not complete, there the 2 effects would balance out and there would be no energy induced into the pickup coil!


So what have you made?


You have made a transformer+motor!
It won't create energy, or at least not based of conventional electromagnetism!


Free Energy, besides Nuclear, Solar, Thermal etc..  Is all based on Aetheric engineering.


You cannot find a logical loop-hole, it is only yourself you have outsmarted!


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2017, 03:12:56 AM »
Haha, Aether, for a sec I thought you were on the right track. You actually were, but then twisted things and finally wove in some es-aetheric power source.


I don't want to explain the obvious, but for once let me elaborate:


I never said the dynamic magnet on the rotor is an Emagnet, but indeed it could be one and you could use a tank cirquit to swap the required energy between cap and coil at very low cost.


I also didn't say Emagnet for the main static, to be dimmed, Magnet field, this would more likely be a huge PM.


All your comparations with sklid state transformers etc. make no sense, since motion, in particular rotation of the Rotor, is an integral Part of the energy lead out and also condition for the induction of this kind. In a transformer you cannot get closer and weaker at the same time. Motion is the further dimension here.


There is also no collapsing field in any way, except the polarity flip in the pickup coil, which is not collapsing per se, no back EMF spike or something.


I explained this a hundred times, and as it is extremly simple and I yet am misunderstood most of the times, I hope you don't mind if I'm getting a little tired of re-explaining. Ok my english is bad, sorry, but it's the same in german.


I suggest, before you explain me further why it cannot work you understand what I was talking again, see also the other thread about Lenzless Generator.


Just this: For the sake of simplicity:
The main, fixed Magnet is a big PM.
The Pickupcoil is shortened.
The Rotor moves between said PM and Coil.
The Rotor consists kn the PM side of a shield that dimms the fieldstrength, seen by the coil.
The Rotor consists on the coil side a small PM that is oriented the same way like the fixed big PM and acts solely as a grip for the coil, but does not significantly alter the dimming by the shield.


[] stator pm
= rotor shield
 '  rotor pm
# stator coil


That of course is only an experimental setup.


Offline aether22

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2017, 03:36:10 AM »
I stand by my objection if the magnet is an electromagnet.


Now if it is a magnet that somehow becomes weaker as it approaches, then that is an interesting but problematic effect.


Now I don't follow your description of the motor, it's not clear.


So if the magnet just got weaker, sure it could work, kinda.


But the problem is that magnetic fields tend to get stronger and if you can find a way to have it get weaker closer you will only do that with some weird magnetic field shape, and in that event the forces you experience will not be what you expect.


For instance I know how to make a permanent magnet that gets weaker as you approach it, what you do its take a large magnet and a small magnet, put them in repulsion and attach the small magnet large magnet.


Now from far away the magnetic field of the larger magnet wins, but closer in the field of the smaller magnet begins to weaken the field, closer yet they reach zero and flip, now this is where the smaller magnets field "wins".


So I guess you have a chance of doing this and moving the coil over an area where the main field weakens and reaches zero as it approaches.


I don't think that you will find it to actually work though, though I can't quite work out why yet.


And I don't fully understand your latest description as it needs a picture and a clearer description.


But as for the aether, it's real and it's how free energy really works and your liking of that fact has no impact on the reality.

Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2017, 04:27:23 AM »
As you said "though I can't quite work out why yet.", so honestly, you're just guessing, probably randomly.


Your idea on how to achive such a dynamic magnet is interesting and one further, interesting approach. In my current setup the main magnetic field comes from a fixed magnet, the rotor only dimms it gradually.


Any method is welcome to achieve this relatively simple task and who knows, maybe a sceptic like you comes up with a working solution. Even tho, atm. I consider myself the most sceptical one of all those who understood the underlying principle of the concept.


And what could I say about Aether? There is so much yet to be explored. Neutrinos with the speed of light, having mass, penetrating eartly matter in incredible quantities, actually all space, where there was "the vacum" before, empty space. Helium, being liquid at 0deg K. "Spooky action at a distance" and quantum particle entanglement. Yes, there is energy from the Aether, what ever that may be. Much more than energy I think. Even time is no more absolute, when you look at the double slit experiment.


But for me, practical application of quantum mechanics ist still a couple of steps ahead on the road, while electromagnetism allows for garage scientists to do simple experiments right away.
kr


Offline aether22

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2017, 05:49:59 AM »
As you said "though I can't quite work out why yet.", so honestly, you're just guessing, probably randomly.


Your idea on how to achive such a dynamic magnet is interesting and one further, interesting approach. In my current setup the main magnetic field comes from a fixed magnet, the rotor only dimms it gradually.


Any method is welcome to achieve this relatively simple task and who knows, maybe a sceptic like you comes up with a working solution. Even tho, atm. I consider myself the most sceptical one of all those who understood the underlying principle of the concept.


And what could I say about Aether? There is so much yet to be explored. Neutrinos with the speed of light, having mass, penetrating eartly matter in incredible quantities, actually all space, where there was "the vacum" before, empty space. Helium, being liquid at 0deg K. "Spooky action at a distance" and quantum particle entanglement. Yes, there is energy from the Aether, what ever that may be. Much more than energy I think. Even time is no more absolute, when you look at the double slit experiment.


But for me, practical application of quantum mechanics ist still a couple of steps ahead on the road, while electromagnetism allows for garage scientists to do simple experiments right away.
kr


I can understand that the aether might seem out of reach and mysterious to you.


I can feel aetheric energies (whatever they are) and I have found most people can, I know this might seem very foreign, but I am without any doubt that the well known historical free energy devices (Tesla, Stubblefield, Hendershot, Hubbard, Moray etc...) work this way, they felt these energies and many reported such.


I got to this by first studying all the claims and looking for correlations, what I saw was not the correlations I wanted to see, but the correlation that these devices and others operated as if they were more than the sum of their parts.  Putting things in a circle increased the energy, there were signs of an energy, a something moving through space.


It too be 17 years before I made a coil that I could feel plainly emit an energy, I tried other and they could too.  Thinking it sounded like Chi or Orgone which people also feel as similar sensations (heat, tingle) I tried it on people with complaints and I got amazing results.


I am yet to experiment with this in active circuits as I found I could learn more focusing on just the aether, and that could be done with just wire, and as I learnt later (yes this sounds impossible and crazy) even images!


I have learnt a lot about the aether in the years since and it explains ore of the free energy and antigravity devices that have credible evidence behind their claims.


Alas I didn't initially have fondness for the aether, and neither do most scientifically minded people.  In much the same way most are close to Free Energy.  But it is real, I have had proof it is real and I believe that by understanding the missing component in real Free Energy technology, actual results will be relatively easy!


I do not believe that I have seen any working Free Energy device that is of the "Gotcha, Loophole" type, they all seem to just inexplicably work while simultaneously having aetheric principles embedded throughout.



One of the signs that these devices work with the aether is that they usually have multiple anomalies besides the anomalous rise of energy.
They have thermal anomalies (odd hot/cold), they loose weight, non shocking electricity, illuminate lights wrong, arc at low voltages, operate strangely in devices, cause magnetization of generally non-magnetic materials. etc...


If you do a proper study of these devices and the associated anomalies you will quickly see that these are not just Free Energy devices, they are "Laws of physics get fucked here" devices.


I was once willing to show people the correlations, the evidence etc...
But now I say, research that on your own, but if you try what I say there is a better than 50% chance you will feel this energy!
Maybe as good as 70% to 90%!


Some even feel the graphics, do you want to try a graphic?  Or a coil it takes a minute to make?

John

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2017, 05:49:59 AM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2017, 06:15:08 AM »
It doesn't sound too crazy to me, in fact interesting, but it definitely also sounds off topic :)
kr

Offline aether22

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2017, 06:52:08 AM »
It doesn't sound too crazy to me, in fact interesting, but it definitely also sounds off topic :)
kr


Off topic to this thread I agree.  But if you are willing to try, either mosey on to my thread "Is anyone seriously interested in the physics of Free Energy?" or message me or email me berry.john22 at gmail.com


See if you are sensitive to the energy. If you are you might be interested in understanding the energy, experimenting with the energy, understanding how it is developed in different Free energy designs.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2017, 06:52:08 AM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2017, 08:01:16 PM »
I probably will, the sooner or later.


For all rhose interested in the Topic, I agree, my presentation was a bit vague, so I made a graphic, that may or may not shed a light on this particular concept:


Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2017, 08:29:22 PM »
Note: I think I just realized that the shield must be downward concave, in order to maintain the desired polarity. Even tho I don't want to increase the total gap, if it helps to achieve any net gain, who cares.

Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2017, 10:38:06 PM »
Note: a further criterium for the shield is: attraction between coil and rotor PM must be bigger than repulsion between coil and parts of the shield that are of undesired polarity at certain moments during the cycle.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2017, 10:38:06 PM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2017, 10:54:18 PM »
Here is an illustration of undesired polarity of the shield. I consider this the most significant if not thw only challenge.

Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2017, 03:05:06 AM »
Ok after testing and thinking further, I'm more or less guessing that for the rotor a weak, thin disc shaped magnet is better, probably ceramics, alnico or ferrite. By covering the entire shield, this maaaay work right out of the box.


Updated graphics, notice new rotor variation:



Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2017, 05:11:29 AM »
About Coghing


(is that written correctly?)


Coghing is a huge issue in any magnet rotation device, it would deserve its own forum section.


Coghing means, you will have friction in all directions, unlike in ballbearings for nonmagnetic devices. The losses are frequently underestimated and it may be a good idea to build a magnet bearing that uses sensors and EMagnets to precisely position the axis at the supposed center while floating freely in air.


However, for the particular design that is subject of this thread, coghing may at least partially be removed by using an unlike number of rotor elements vs stator elements. That doesn't nullify friction, but can reduce in greatly.
kr

Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2017, 08:40:47 AM »
Oh btw. first I called it "field strength", later "flux density", both is from the point of view of the coil effectively the same, at least in my terminology.


Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2017, 06:23:24 PM »
Ok, I see nobody of the few who understood this concept idea, like eg. Brad, is willing or able to explain why this probably could not work, leave alone to jump on the waggon and do some tests by their own.


I tried to replicate dozens of designs by others, many of them even lacking any theory, and they all failed. Collections of concepts in 1000pg+ pdfs, nothing but utter bullshit, and compared to them, from an objective point of view, this concept here is the most logical,elegant and plausible that I have ever seen. People try to replicate "designs" like Thestatika, Sweet, Hendersot, Johnson etc. with no theory or even plan, only based on trust on a report about a working model, and that in a world full of lies.


So for now I will go on and see for myself. Anyone interested please PN me, so I'll be notified.


I have btw. also suggested to Stefan that he might mod the forum in such a way that thread starters can delete spamish postings in their thread to seperate the real discussions from barely disguised troll posts that make 80% of all postings, and once this works, I am positive that the number of serious and real users will rise again. Please backup my request to Stefan.


Yeah, maybe the title I chose for this thread isn't ideal, I probably should have added some catchy stuff like "Tesla appeared to me in a dream, new plan!" Or "Alien technology, sent to me from Alpha Centauri Population, proof!" (one must be pro to come up with the incredible bs as seen here, flooding the forum). However.


Over and out.
kr

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2017, 06:23:24 PM »

 

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