Cookies-law

Cookies help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
http://www.overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please leave this website now. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 499640
  • *Total Topics: 14716
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 4
  • *Guests: 212
  • *Total: 216

Facebook

Author Topic: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.  (Read 16979 times)

Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 968
Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« on: February 05, 2017, 10:14:19 PM »
What I crap, I just typed in like 10 pages of smart text, took me an hour or so, clicked Prewiew, and gone was it! Clicking Back gave me an empty text input, this suchs, Stefan I hope you read this.


So I am really peed of, but still ask,
anybody interested in a coproject, probably a parallel test application?


Seemingly I have after thoughts and measurements found a way to inverse the current flow during induction, with the implication of the Lenz effect being no longer a brake, but a drive.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 968
Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2017, 10:19:33 PM »
I was trying to talk about this with a PHD in electrotechnics and it turned out these guys can only recite wikipedia formulas without to understand them, really, that is the state of academics these days, and have never built any device in all their lifetime.


So, smartasses stay away from here, I need practical people with real world experience and a profund, personal and complete understanding of induction.

Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 968
Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2017, 10:28:07 PM »
Most significant is the observation, that current flows, say, CW when the applied field strength increases, and CCW when it decreases. It usually increases as the distance between magnet and coil decreases, and visa versa. An increasing field strength and the resulting current flow however repells its (normally approaching) source by means of the reactive field, while a decreasing strength of the inducer causes the reactive field to attract the source, to hold it back, prevent it from moving away, brake it.
That is Lenz law 101.



.

Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 968
Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2017, 10:44:37 PM »
Now, this implies, logically, that if I had a magnet that is reducing its field strength, the closer it gets to the coil will reduce instead of increase the field strenght on proximation, and likewise increase the field strength while moving away, or in simple terms, it would be attracted when getting closer and pushed away when already moving away.


Or in even simpler terms: it would be accellerated by the "Lenz Effect"


To be discussed is, whether it is possible to build such a Magnet. In fact, I had some success. No selfrunner, but defnitely reversal of the current flow, pne of the fundamental criteria.


Others are: Inducer must lower the total fieldstrenght when getting closer to the coil, but must retain axial polarity orientation and also a minimum of stength to be affected by the reactive Field at all.

Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 968
Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2017, 11:15:13 PM »
It would be really nice, if some of you, understanding these underlying principles, would participate in this project, thank you!


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2017, 11:15:13 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline shylo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 476
Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2017, 10:20:20 AM »
Hi Dieter, My understanding is very limited, but I find that on my set-up, which puts out AC
that if you input a DC voltage at the point where the AC wave is at zero, this reduces the lenz effect.
Also the input of the DC is used for drive.
My coils are all air core, it might not work with cores.
artv

Offline aether22

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 914
Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2017, 11:18:18 AM »
Now, this implies, logically, that if I had a magnet that is reducing its field strength, the closer it gets to the coil will reduce instead of increase the field strenght on proximation, and likewise increase the field strength while moving away, or in simple terms, it would be attracted when getting closer and pushed away when already moving away.


Or in even simpler terms: it would be accellerated by the "Lenz Effect"


To be discussed is, whether it is possible to build such a Magnet. In fact, I had some success. No selfrunner, but defnitely reversal of the current flow, pne of the fundamental criteria.


Others are: Inducer must lower the total fieldstrenght when getting closer to the coil, but must retain axial polarity orientation and also a minimum of stength to be affected by the reactive Field at all.


Hi Deiter, sorry your idea won't work.


You see the action of induction is to oppose change, it is like electromagnetic inertia, and if it opposes change here too as it will, it will tact as a brake.


So the induction from a decrease is strength is irrelevant unless we know polarity decreasing, so the permanent magnet flips the polarity along with flipping the action, as such the induction is what happens of a collapse of the opposite polarity doing the opposite thing, as such we wind up right back where we started as each one flips the induced polarity.


John

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2017, 11:18:18 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 968
Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2017, 03:07:43 PM »
Shylo, thank you, interesting, but you must choose the right DC polarity then, then of course it will drive the rotor. It is an intetesting, although diffrent concept.


Aether22, thank you, with all the respect, it is obvious to me that you don't understand induction, nor what I was talking about. "Polarity decreasing"?
wtf. Anyone who doesn't understand that induction without a polarity flip of the inductor is perfectly possible, at the cost of lower efficiency per cm3, should not post in this thread, thank you.

Offline citfta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 635
Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2017, 03:58:09 PM »
Dieter, you are incorrect about current reversing during magnetic field collapse.  I am saying that based on over 50 years experience in electronics.  Here is a link to a thread where we discuss this at length.  If you will take the time to read it, it will help you see what is really going on.  Since you apparently don't want anyone posting that does not agree with you this will be my only post.  I will not get into an argument with you about your mistaken idea.

http://overunity.com/16203/inductive-kickback/

However your idea about changing the magnetic strength of a coil as it approaches and recedes from a magnet may have some interesting effects.  I feel that aspect of your idea is worth pursuing.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5016
Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2017, 04:17:01 PM »
Dieter, you are incorrect about current reversing during magnetic field collapse.  I am saying that based on over 50 years experience in electronics.  Here is a link to a thread where we discuss this at length.  If you will take the time to read it, it will help you see what is really going on.  Since you apparently don't want anyone posting that does not agree with you this will be my only post.  I will not get into an argument with you about your mistaken idea.

http://overunity.com/16203/inductive-kickback/

However your idea about changing the magnetic strength of a coil as it approaches and recedes from a magnet may have some interesting effects.  I feel that aspect of your idea is worth pursuing.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Carroll

I think you are mixed up here.
I do not see any comment by Dieter saying that the current reverses during magnetic field collapse.
What i do see is Dieter saying that the current flow reverses when the magnetic field strength decreases in the inductor-and he is correct.
Inductive kickback,and AC induction are two totally different things,when it comes to current flow.

As a magnet approaches an inductor/ coil,the current will flow in one direction,and when the magnet leaves the inductor/coil,the current will flow in the other direction.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2017, 04:17:01 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline shylo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 476
Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2017, 11:52:32 PM »
It travels in both directions all the time.
One side is always a little stronger than the other.
I'm trying to to collect the stronger to drive the weaker.
artv

Offline shylo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 476
Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2017, 11:59:03 PM »
Hi Carrol,
"However your idea about changing the magnetic strength of a coil as it approaches and recedes from a magnet may have some interesting effects.  I feel that aspect of your idea is worth pursuing."

Try flipping it, to reverse the drag.
artv

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5016
Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2017, 12:09:44 AM »
 author=Erfinder link=topic=17116.msg499423#msg499423 date=1486395812]





Quote
sure he is....?

Post 2

Quote
Most significant is the observation, that current flows, say, CW when the applied field strength increases, and CCW when it decreases.

Quote
sure it does....?

Yes,i am sure it dose.

Quote
your opinion....right....not a question.  I'm thinking the godfather of induction would have a negative opinion of your opinion.

Im sure the godfather would agree with known science,and not have much time for whackadoo crackpot's.

Quote
What current......not a question....
The induced current--you know,the very stuff that is powering the computer you are typing on now.


I just new you would show up here EF,and destroy yet another thread with your warped understanding of power.
You are so predictable  :D


Brad

Offline aether22

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 914
Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2017, 02:31:44 AM »
Quote from: dieter link

Most significant is the observation, that current flows, say, CW when the applied field strength increases, and CCW when it decreases. It usually increases as the distance between magnet and coil decreases, and visa versa. An increasing field strength and the resulting current flow however repels its (normally approaching) source by means of the reactive field, while a decreasing strength of the inducer causes the reactive field to attract the source, to hold it back, prevent it from moving away, brake it.
That is Lenz law 101.


Now, this implies, logically, that if I had a magnet that is reducing its field strength, the closer it gets to the coil will reduce instead of increase the field strength on approximation, and likewise increase the field strength while moving away, or in simple terms, it would be attracted when getting closer and pushed away when already moving away.
Ok, maybe I didn't understand your idea.


"Most significant is the observation, that current flows, say, CW when the applied field strength increases, and CCW when it decreases."


Ok, so if the pole of a permanent magnet approaches a coil, then first it will induce a voltage that will try and move the electrons in a CCW direction say such that it repels the magnets approach with the resultant magnetic field in the pickup coil.


And then if the impedance of the pickup coil is not too great, then when you move the magnet and coil apart they will attract which is to say the current in the coil is now CW.

Ok, so far we are on the same page, right?  That covers and agrees with everything above your "Lenz Law 101 comment".


"Now, this implies, logically, that if I had a magnet that is reducing its field strength, the closer it gets to the coil will reduce instead of increase the field strength on approximation"


hmmm, I think that sentence has some wrongly used words, but I think you are trying to say this "Therefore, if I had an electromagnet that approaches the pickup coil such that it's field was decreasing such that the pickup coils feels the field getting weaker as it approaches".


Ok, this is different to what I first thought you were saying, and it is an interesting idea.


Ok, so let's try and run this through some steps.


Step 1: Starting state, 2 air core electromagnets (one called the pickup coil) are separated by a distance of say 2cm, neither is energized.
note: Air cores simplify things a lot!
Step 2: One electromagnet passes a current, as it's magnetic field increases it loses electrical energy (a counter voltage is induced) from it's self inductance that would be regained if the field is later collapsed. Meanwhile the other electromagnet was open circuit and did not contribute.
Step 3: The electromagnet that passed the current reach it's maximum current from the applied voltage, at this point the is no more induction.
Step 4: The powered electromagnets field extends to the pickup coil that is 2 cm away, it begins to move closer to the pickup coil, but simultaneously the current through the electromagnet is decreased at a faster rate than the approach, as such there is indeed an induction in the pickup coil and the current flow from it has attracted the coil and given both kinetic energy AND electrical energy into the pickup coil!


So, what we must look at is what happened to the energy invested into the first electromagnet in which we invested electrical energy.
As you will recall the self impedance of that coil means that even if it were a superconductor, we would have had to invest energy to establish the magnetic field.


As such it needs to get that energy back from the collapse.


So now we see that the pickup coil is getting the energy from the collapse!  It is collecting the energy instead!


Let's say we have these 2 coils at a fixed distance, we energize one establishing a magnetic field while the other is open circuit, then we decrease the magnetic field in the energized one while we tap the energy from the second inductively coupled coil, did it work?  Yes!
Is it Free Energy?  No!
Because they can't both tap that same energy and both get the full amount from it!


This same inductive effect is what is happening with your generator, except it isn't a generator as the induction is not created by the approach by transformer effects!  You have created something like an automotive ignition coil!


It is NOT a generator as the motion does not induce the energy, actually it opposes the energy induced in the pickup coil!
If the motion was faster and if the collapse was not complete, there the 2 effects would balance out and there would be no energy induced into the pickup coil!


So what have you made?


You have made a transformer+motor!
It won't create energy, or at least not based of conventional electromagnetism!


Free Energy, besides Nuclear, Solar, Thermal etc..  Is all based on Aetheric engineering.


You cannot find a logical loop-hole, it is only yourself you have outsmarted!


Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 968
Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2017, 03:12:56 AM »
Haha, Aether, for a sec I thought you were on the right track. You actually were, but then twisted things and finally wove in some es-aetheric power source.


I don't want to explain the obvious, but for once let me elaborate:


I never said the dynamic magnet on the rotor is an Emagnet, but indeed it could be one and you could use a tank cirquit to swap the required energy between cap and coil at very low cost.


I also didn't say Emagnet for the main static, to be dimmed, Magnet field, this would more likely be a huge PM.


All your comparations with sklid state transformers etc. make no sense, since motion, in particular rotation of the Rotor, is an integral Part of the energy lead out and also condition for the induction of this kind. In a transformer you cannot get closer and weaker at the same time. Motion is the further dimension here.


There is also no collapsing field in any way, except the polarity flip in the pickup coil, which is not collapsing per se, no back EMF spike or something.


I explained this a hundred times, and as it is extremly simple and I yet am misunderstood most of the times, I hope you don't mind if I'm getting a little tired of re-explaining. Ok my english is bad, sorry, but it's the same in german.


I suggest, before you explain me further why it cannot work you understand what I was talking again, see also the other thread about Lenzless Generator.


Just this: For the sake of simplicity:
The main, fixed Magnet is a big PM.
The Pickupcoil is shortened.
The Rotor moves between said PM and Coil.
The Rotor consists kn the PM side of a shield that dimms the fieldstrength, seen by the coil.
The Rotor consists on the coil side a small PM that is oriented the same way like the fixed big PM and acts solely as a grip for the coil, but does not significantly alter the dimming by the shield.


[] stator pm
= rotor shield
 '  rotor pm
# stator coil


That of course is only an experimental setup.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2017, 03:12:56 AM »

 

Share this topic to your favourite Social and Bookmark site

Please SHARE this topic at:


OneLink