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Author Topic: ROC  (Read 13120 times)

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #75 on: April 10, 2018, 08:40:54 PM »
I have idealized the sim, that is I have removed as many arms and replaced them with ideal rods as I can, reduced the mass of components down so that only the "working" masses have significant mass.
I did this to try and focus on the interaction that I think I am playing with, and well it raises an interesting question for me.

Which momentum needs to be conserved?

I am conserving one value when I want to observe it and how I choose to observe it.  Maybe it is kinetic energy instead, not sure but the sim is running nuts on and with no errors.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: ROC
« Reply #75 on: April 10, 2018, 08:40:54 PM »

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #76 on: April 11, 2018, 04:36:00 PM »
I minimized the sim even more, even tho now it is only producing 18kJ per 0.56 seconds, so not as impressive.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #77 on: April 12, 2018, 01:25:07 AM »
I simplified further,, trying to get to the actual causality and not just what I think it should be,, I think I was wrong, no I was wrong and going down this far in simplification demonstrated that.

This is just  the data file, no pic.

What I did was remove the extra masses and some rods\arms and stuff, then I increased the mass of the remaining arms.  This led to a large negative power spike so to get rid of that I off-loaded that hit into another heavy flywheel that has a constant torque motor trying to slow that wheel down and when the spike hit I dumped that into that wheel which speeds it up for the torque motor to slow back down.  This method is only "a way" of going about it and was easy to implement in the sim.

So now it is at about 13.5kJ in about  2.5 seconds but it is more about finding causality.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #78 on: April 12, 2018, 10:16:57 PM »
I made a few adjustments to get it a little bit more stable.

I included the rotational velocity of the load wheel, it can be used to determine a common point,, 179.999'ish degrees per second

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #79 on: April 13, 2018, 08:20:26 PM »
What I am playing with is a group of conservative mechanical  systems inter-connected and operated in such a manner as to allow the operator to extract useful work for no additional cost to the operator.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: ROC
« Reply #79 on: April 13, 2018, 08:20:26 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #80 on: April 14, 2018, 09:47:23 PM »
My no-arms heavy is corrupted,, I make some changes and they have no affect on the output, I go back a few versions of the sim and make the same changes while having that version changed, without adding or removing any parts, to behave the same and the changes are evident.

When I have that one using the same stuff the output is more like 76J per second instead of like 7.6kJ.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #81 on: April 18, 2018, 11:27:22 PM »
I went back a few versions and started from there.

This one now has another set of interactive systems and a spring that interacts between each system pair.  If the spring rest length is set short,  0.83m, the output and input values drop, if it is set long, 6m, they do not.
I now have the load wheel set to a constant torque and I have included the spring length. 4m is the longest the spring will get to and makes a nice marker within the data.

This version puts out approx.  125kJ in 0.424 seconds

I clipped the input side of the graph in the pic, I am more interested in the total values than the individual values.

ETA: I added another relationship comparison measurement as well.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: ROC
« Reply #81 on: April 18, 2018, 11:27:22 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #82 on: April 22, 2018, 03:35:38 PM »
https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Clackers-Klakkers-Makers-Favors/dp/B003415LOM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clackers

This toy can be very inspirational,, as well as a Newtons cradle since they are basically the same thing.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #83 on: April 24, 2018, 09:17:58 PM »
I started with a basic change to the toy.

This does not include any of the other stuff and is only a change to start with.

I scaled down the setup from m lengths to cm lengths but kept the mass values,, so with this data the torque is in N-cm <== so multiply the torque by 0.01 to get N-m, I then increased the degrees per second from 360 to 3600.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2018, 07:32:12 AM »
This simple mod can itself be "tweaked" and change the behavior of the system.
I would also point out that going from this simple starting point I supplied numbers from the sim interacting with the whole system in at least 2 different ways.
What I am trying to point out is that I might of found a method but it is in no way the only method and is most likely not even the best method.

<TIC> Those that are skilled in the production of mechanical gain devices might be able to infer what all the missing parts are and how they interact :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: ROC
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2018, 07:32:12 AM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2018, 07:47:15 PM »
I added in a little slop in one area so as to be more like the real world, the change was not expected, it increased the output in an interesting way, well with what the change was the increase would of been expected but I did not expect how things changed,,,

I then took the new slop version and then dropped the masses down to what they would be in a build of this size, adjusted things as needed.
again this is in N-cm so multiply the torque by 0.01 to get N-m.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #86 on: Today at 12:54:49 AM »
Now you could connect the two clacker parts together :)

This is how I have done it.
There is more stuff but this is where I started getting some of the stuff I am getting, and this is not the first time I have played with this setup or shared it, I did not "use" it the way I am now.  Those previous times were ITRW, as in testbed.
This also is not setup to use gravity.
Motion makes motion and force makes force.
Give it motion.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #87 on: Today at 01:33:36 AM »
I myself prefer to run with 2 sets on the same pivot and have those sets interconnected.

I colored the systems to make it easy to see.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #88 on: Today at 04:03:34 AM »
Then for starters you can add a motor and a spring and start the motion correctly.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #89 on: Today at 05:06:39 AM »
I decided to share this even tho I figure there will be,, well stuff.
I guess that there will be:
Those that take it and present it elsewhere as there own idea
Those that will "protect" it using the law
Those that will claim it is either there idea or a knock off of there idea
Those that will simply say it does not work
Those that will use this to justify what they are doing
but most of all, the thing that bothers me the most is that there will be those that will stop with only this version of it, maybe going so far as to say you can't do it any other way or use any other force\motion or whatever.

so the numbers showed that the system, just as simply setup as I have shown, produces approx. 36J in those 3 full negative cycles.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: ROC
« Reply #89 on: Today at 05:06:39 AM »

 

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