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Author Topic: Magnet force shield  (Read 11693 times)

Offline Floor

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Magnet force shield
« on: January 21, 2017, 05:14:49 PM »
@all readers

This really works and is an amazingly simple solution to
the "sticky spot" in magnet "smots" and in an "all magnet motor design".

It is the basic reason for the successful functioning of
the TD (or twist drive) designs.

Magnets ARE NOT CONSERVATIVE in all interactions, but rather they are only so
when the vectors of their approach to one another, and their escape from one another
are limited to the typical.

If properly constrained in their motions to sequences of specific right angle vectors
in relation to their poles, magnets are not conservative. 
               and / or
If properly constrained in their motions to sequences of specific right angle vectors
in relation to their poles, and then constrained to a specific axis of rotation in relation
to their poles, again magnets are not conservative.

More work and / or energy can be cyclically gotten out of their force interactions than is input.

                               Much more !

By using 3 inexpensive ceramic magnet in hand, one can easily and quickly
demonstrate this for ones self.   

From a hard ware store these magnet typically cost around $4 U.S. for two
of them (1 7/8  by 7/8 by 3/8 inch).  With four of the magnets one can easily
demonstrate this principle.

Pleas find the attached PNG drawings.

                    best wishes
                           floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Magnet force shield
« on: January 21, 2017, 05:14:49 PM »

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2017, 05:27:05 PM »
@ All readers

More detailed explinations can be found at these links


http://overunity.com/14311/work-from-2-magnets-19-output-2/

http://overunity.com/16987/td-replications/

http://overunity.com/17070/all-magnet-motor-td-based/

                     floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline conradelektro

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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2017, 06:17:54 PM »
@Floor:

Conventional wisdom (or science) says that whatever shield you use, it costs as much to move and remove the shield than what you can gain by using the shield.

There are hundreds of (useless) patents for permanent magnet motors with all sorts of shields.

Magnetic force is conservative in all directions and with all shapes of magnets.

Of course you can always question conventional science, but you would need very strong and convincing proof. Best would be a permanent magnet motor self running. But it was never shown and it should not work.

It might be possible to come up with a permanent magnet motor at a temperature of absolut zero degrees (minus 273,15 centigrade). A bit like supra conductivity.

An other possible venue would be a motor at the atomic level embedded in a strange molecule, turning with the same speed (or a harmonic) as the electron zips around the core of an atom.

The only things not known are the very small (at the size of atoms or even smaller), the very big (cosmological sizes like galaxies) and the very cold (at absolut zero). All "normal" things you can easily touch and work on, are pretty well established.


The big time of "home scientists" was the nineteenth century, and many things were discovered at "home laboratories". Nowadays you need stranger things like particle accelerators, very cold places or telescopes in space.

There are things you could work on: http://www.wired.co.uk/article/elon-musk-solar-city-roofs-october-28

Mr. Musk made a big show of solar roofs. But I could not find, how he intends to connect the individual roof tiles (individual shingles or whatever you want to call them, the individual photo voltaic plates). It is a bummer to only connect twenty big solar panels, but what about hundreds of little ones? So, if you can come up with a good idea on how to do that, it would help enormously. Observe that there will be considerable erosion on the roof, because of rain, cold, heat and ultra violet rays, not to forget ice, snow and wind. I followed the patent literature about this problem for years, but nothing good was invented.

A roof and solar panels are not a good match. They should be ventilated on the roof side. Therefore they are kept at a distance of about 10 cm from the roof, what means that some sort of structure is mounted 10 cm above the roof. This then means that one has many points where a bolt or a cable goes through the roof, which are all possible and future leaks. It is much better to mount photo voltaic panels on a wall of the house where leaks are not so difficult to avoid. Or one mounts photo voltaic panels on a structure a few meters away from the house, which is not pretty. I saw some nice arrangements at houses built on a steep slope (which causes other problems, e.g it is not nice to live there).

So, there are plenty of good ideas still outstanding in the field of alternative energy generation (with conventional means like wind, solar rays or water). And this could be done at home with little money. It is all about how to mount these things and how to integrate them in a house, also the electrical installation.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2017, 07:12:15 PM »
@ConradElectro

Quote from ConradElectro

"Magnetic force is conservative in all directions and with all shapes of magnets."

End Quote

You are simply, miss understanding the interactions in this matter.

Yes, it is a simple fact that, the force required to pull two magnets apart
is the same as the force of their attraction.  In this respect magnets are "conservative".

It is precisely because magnets are conservative in that respect...
                       that
when both a N pole and S pole are facing either a  single N or a single S pole
they exhibit no NET magnetic force (neither attracting nor repelling)...
when that force is allowed to act ONLY along a vector as illustrated in the PNG drawings.

This is in fact, also a conservative interaction, as zero is equal to zero.

When the proper alignment of magnets is made (as illustrated)

The center magnet or magnets IN EFFECT provide as force
shield between the two outer magnets.  See this for your self.

This is easily accomplished by mounting one of the magnets upon a sliding track,
and fixing the other magnet to a base,  or by simply holding the magnets in hand.

Please examine the drawings / examples or there is no real discussion here.

                 regards
                           floor


Offline Floor

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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2017, 09:33:49 PM »
@ConradElectro

If it remains very long, that there is no response from you, then I will
consider it.... that you have conceded.

                best wishes
                          floor
                     
                    PS
                         please remain on topic
                     

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2017, 09:33:49 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2017, 01:41:37 PM »
@ConradElectro

If it remains very long, that there is no response from you, then I will
consider it.... that you have conceded.

I told the standard answer to a "magnetic shield". Well, you have an other opinion, which is fine.

What remains is proof. I know, the measurements are difficult and tedious. That is the reason why I am not doing measurements with permanent magnets. I believe the standard explanation till some one provides conclusive proof otherwise.

The easiest way to conclusively prove that a "magnetic shield" is what you are claiming, would be a self running permanent magnet motor.

The "magnetic shield" in a permanent magnet motor is the equivalent to turning of or reducing the current in a motor with coils at certain times during a revolution. And exactly that was never shown. There is no "magnetic shield" in the sense you are claiming. Placing and removing a "magnetic shield" costs more than can be gained. It is similar to a "gravity shield", which also can not exist.

Greetings, Conrad

P.S.: Sorry about the photo voltaic roof shingles, it would be something worth while to work on (in contrast to "magnetic shields").

Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2017, 02:12:53 PM »
Floor in this drawing "Magnet force shield 2.PNG" I have tested the
effect of turning on and off the magnetic repel force and it appears
that a simple sliding force will do this. So I will put this together
and measure the forces to see what the input and output work
really are.

It looks very exciting...
The tricky part of the repel work done is "closer stronger and further
weaker" so as they push apart and give you work out they give less
and less work out.

Thanks,

Norman


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2017, 02:12:53 PM »
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Online Zephir

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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2017, 03:24:40 PM »
Quote
Magnetic force is conservative in all directions and with all shapes of magnets
The above claim is rather assumption given for thoroughly measured steady state - but what about the dynamic transition phenomena? I'm not sure it does apply on temporal basis.

For example we know, that the attraction of magnets to piece of irons doesn't run continuously: the individual ferromagnetic domains resist their re-orientation and they're doing it in small jumps, which can be detected as so-called the Barkhaussen noise. That means, for brief intervals of time the magnetic field and the forces between magnets cannot be considered as a fully conservative quantity anymore. The magnetic force must "wait" for reorientation of domains, before it can increase/decrease again. And what would reorient the magnetic domains during these intervals? The thermal fluctuations of material, which will assist this process into account of the content of heat of the material, which will cool itself during it.

These brief intervals of time are therefore just the moments, when the negentropy can take its place according to my theory.

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2017, 03:44:06 PM »
@ConradElectro

The on topic parts of your comments were pertinent, and worth
hearing.   As per usual you input had value, and helped scope the
project.

               thanks
                   floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2017, 03:46:31 PM »
@norman6538

Looking forward to it Norman.

               regards
                          floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2017, 03:46:31 PM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2017, 11:39:37 PM »
Referring back to this drawing.... "Magnet force shield 2.PNG"

If you pull the magnet straight out from the drawing toward  you there is little effort required to  release the repel force and you can then reset/
another repel force by pushing it back where it was and easily sliding the moved magnet back into its repel position where it can be repeated. 

Floor you really have something this time. I'll work up something with
work in and work out measurements but the further weaker factor will
be a limiting factor.

But it seems that when the magnets are attracting then to turn the attraction on and off
you slide the magnet up or down.

Norman




Offline Floor

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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2017, 12:35:35 AM »
@ norman6538

Those particular PNG drawings are intended only to show the principle of
the "shielding" in its most basic form.

They are intended to show that the "shield" magnet is easily
installed / removed, but are not intended to demonstrate
a cyclical operation.

The magnetic polar aliments are easily confusing. I some times
need to hold my magnets directly in front of the drawings
in order to make certain that I am setting things up correctly.

Note that,  two magnet can under some conditions stick together
LIKE POLE TO LIKE POLE. 
         because
At very close distances domain and individual atomic magnetic alignments
can flip within the magnets.  This may cause minor stickiness during withdrawal
of the "shield" magnet.
               also
If the magnets used are of a greatly different gause, this can utterly wreck the
interactions.  e.g. don't use neo magnets and ceramic magnets in the same
device.

                           regards


Offline Floor

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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2017, 03:53:30 AM »
@ ConradElectro

You misquoted me 4 times in your last post as  "magnetic shield".
                       listed here below are those 4 misquotes.

Quotes from ConradElectro

1. I told the standard answer to a "magnetic shield". "

2. "The easiest way to conclusively prove that a "magnetic shield" is what you are claiming,..."

3. "The "magnetic shield" in a permanent magnet motor is the equivalent to turning of or reducing
the current in a motor with coils at certain times during a revolution."

4. "There is no "magnetic shield" in the sense you are claiming."

End Quotes

                                          I HAVE NOT CLAIMED A  "magnetic shield"  AT ALL !

Magnet force shield is the title of this topic.

Magnet force shield 1, 2 and 3 are the labels on the 3 PNG drawing sets.

                                                        I have used the following phrases...

magnetic force shield

shield magnet

"shield magnet"
                                                     and
"The center magnet or magnets IN EFFECT provide as force shield between the two outer magnets."
                                        (this should read as  (provide a force shield)
...

Don't bother to make argument that the distinctions
I point out in in the phrasings are insignificant.

                                            As I said previously, you have simply not
                                            understood the interactions illustrated in
                                                                 the drawings.

The shield magnet or magnets in combination with the normal force,  prevent the magnetic force
from acting along specific lines (as illustrated).

And yes this does make it possible to get very much MORE WORK AND / OR ENERGY OUT OF
THESE INTERACTIONS THAN IS PUT INTO THEM.


1.  Either explain to me the interactions as I have illustrated them, as proof that you
do understand their statements.
                         or
2.  Ask me questions specific to the drawings / the interactions.

Don't post this redundant nay saying trash.  It's not even specific to the drawings
or interactions illustrated.....           It is off topic.   

Otherwise there is no real discussion of the topic by you, only disruption.

I won't accept another apology from you on this matter.  Just stop disrupting /
misdirecting and make relavent comments or don't post here.

                                     good day sir
                                               floor

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2017, 10:38:21 PM »
@ ConradElectro

1.  Either explain to me the interactions as I have illustrated them, as proof that you
do understand their statements.
                         or
2.  Ask me questions specific to the drawings / the interactions.

Don't post this redundant nay saying trash.  It's not even specific to the drawings
or interactions illustrated.....           It is off topic.   

Otherwise there is no real discussion of the topic by you, only disruption.

I won't accept another apology from you on this matter.  Just stop disrupting /
misdirecting and make relavent comments or don't post here.

                                     good day sir
                                               floor

I just repeated the textbook answers because you seem not to know them. I do not have to prove textbook answers, just read a good book.

To the contrary, you have to prove that you have found an anomaly. And you have to make sure that your proof is understandable. It would be an endless and hopeless task to talk about every misconception and crackpot idea out there. I am not your teacher, but you become some sort of teacher when making extraordinary claims. You want to be believed.

I am making no claims, I just offer the little wisdom I have. Of course I am not prepared to put any real work into whatever obviously contradicts known science. I would put in some work and money if extraordinary proof were offered, e.g. a self running permanent magnet motor.

http://www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialsciences/ppecorino/phil_of_religion_text/CHAPTER_5_ARGUMENTS_EXPERIENCE/Burden-of-Proof.htm

I will not write any more in this thread. So, your ideas are save from me. Extraordinary claims invite harsh criticism, get used to it. You are the weirdo who wants the world to listen. So, provide something believable. I am not defending known science, there are thousands of good books and courses doing this job. You are up against 200 years of research, not against me. What you are talking about are common misconceptions, done hundreds of times before. You are entitled to do whatever you want and I am entitled to criticize. "Magnetic force shields" would have been discovered long ago if they existed. Get used to the fact that there are and were millions of people more clever than you (and me), who drove science along. A bit more self reflection and modesty.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2017, 10:58:27 PM »
Why do we have to get into these "ego battles"? And why is the keyboard so much more used than the workbench? I have very primitively tested the idea and now am at
the workbench making a measurable setup to see for myself. Why doesn't anyone else
do the same?   It must be a disease.......

Get your butt out to the workbench and see for yourself...



Norman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2017, 10:58:27 PM »

 

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