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Author Topic: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"  (Read 22083 times)

Offline h20power

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #60 on: December 11, 2016, 12:39:58 AM »
One thing you will find is the dielectric constant changes wildly with temperature. From my experiments the colder the water the better it works for Voltrolysis. I have noticed big time the hotter the water the lower the voltage will be being applied to the water bath. Now to be fair I have been at this a lot longer than most and as a result I have noticed things about this technology most people have not.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #60 on: December 11, 2016, 12:39:58 AM »

Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #61 on: December 11, 2016, 05:22:51 AM »
Ok,so after a couple of busy weeks,i mannaged to get into the workshop today,and complete the test bed.
Also have a base line of performance for the cell,using a steady and pulsed DC current,at low voltages.

No difference in output or MMW was noted using either pulsed or straight/continuous current at 50Hz
Voltage and current was measured by both DMMs and scope.
Some test result examples.
Remember,the voltage is across the cell,and not each neutral plate set.

14.45v @ 3.1amps= MMW of 5.58
15.4v @ 5.84amps= MMW of 5.38
15.6v @ 7.1amps= MMW of 5.24

Gas temperature remains at 26*C for all tests.

Interesting to note that the efficiency drops as the current value rises.

Video up within the next few days,as still have a bit of tidying up to do.


Brad



Offline pomodoro

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #62 on: December 11, 2016, 07:52:55 AM »
Ok,so after a couple of busy weeks,i mannaged to get into the workshop today,and complete the test bed.
Also have a base line of performance for the cell,using a steady and pulsed DC current,at low voltages.

No difference in output or MMW was noted using either pulsed or straight/continuous current at 50Hz
Voltage and current was measured by both DMMs and scope.
Some test result examples.
Remember,the voltage is across the cell,and not each neutral plate set.

14.45v @ 3.1amps= MMW of 5.58
15.4v @ 5.84amps= MMW of 5.38
15.6v @ 7.1amps= MMW of 5.24

Gas temperature remains at 26*C for all tests.

Interesting to note that the efficiency drops as the current value rises.

Video up within the next few days,as still have a bit of tidying up to do.


Brad
Nice setup Brad. Great to see you are using the oscilloscope for V and I measurements.  How many individual cells are there?


Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #63 on: December 11, 2016, 11:05:39 AM »
Nice setup Brad..  How many individual cells are there?

It is a 15 plate cell,where the center plate is the negative,and the two outer plates are the positive.
There are 6 neutral plates in each half of the cell.
 
Quote
Great to see you are using the oscilloscope for V and I measurements

Yes,i use both the scope and DMMs to measure V&I,where i will carry out a couple of runs using the DMMs,and then put in place a CVR,and confirm P/in measurements using the scope.
We are within +/- 1.2% on current,and within .3% on voltage. So our error margin is very small.

I also have a condenser and filter/dryer-as can be seen in the pic.
There is also a temperature probe in the poly T piece,so as i can monitor gas temperature.


Brad


Offline h20power

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #64 on: December 11, 2016, 11:46:41 AM »
It is a 15 plate cell,where the center plate is the negative,and the two outer plates are the positive.
There are 6 neutral plates in each half of the cell.
 
Yes,i use both the scope and DMMs to measure V&I,where i will carry out a couple of runs using the DMMs,and then put in place a CVR,and confirm P/in measurements using the scope.
We are within +/- 1.2% on current,and within .3% on voltage. So our error margin is very small.

I also have a condenser and filter/dryer-as can be seen in the pic.
There is also a temperature probe in the poly T piece,so as i can monitor gas temperature.


Brad


Say Brad,


Here is a cell that should be very easy for you to construct and make and it gives away one of my secrets. As you can see I used SS bars instead of plates and I added laser energy to the mix. Now the reason for the bars is to force the electricity to follow the path of least resistance as those SS bars have far less resistance than the water does. Eleven SS bars in series to give ten water gaps they are 1/8" thic[size=78%]k, [/size]but I should have used 1/4" to get more of the desired effect but the cell works great none the less. Thus far I have managed to take it up to 9.4kv and when the new VIC is built I should be able to take it to around 14kv. I used plastic shim stock to control the spacing between the plates and a SS spring with a low profile SS bolt for the electrical connections. I used plumbers tape to seal all the threaded parts. Not all that expensive and one can really start to test some high voltages with this setup.


Let me know what you think, okay?
Ed

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #64 on: December 11, 2016, 11:46:41 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #65 on: December 12, 2016, 05:31:54 AM »

Say Brad,


Here is a cell that should be very easy for you to construct and make and it gives away one of my secrets. As you can see I used SS bars instead of plates and I added laser energy to the mix. Now the reason for the bars is to force the electricity to follow the path of least resistance as those SS bars have far less resistance than the water does. Eleven SS bars in series to give ten water gaps they are 1/8" thic[size=78%]k, [/size]but I should have used 1/4" to get more of the desired effect but the cell works great none the less. Thus far I have managed to take it up to 9.4kv and when the new VIC is built I should be able to take it to around 14kv. I used plastic shim stock to control the spacing between the plates and a SS spring with a low profile SS bolt for the electrical connections. I used plumbers tape to seal all the threaded parts. Not all that expensive and one can really start to test some high voltages with this setup.


Let me know what you think, okay?
Ed

Hi Ed

I would be interested in hearing about your results using HV instead of low voltages with high currents.


Brad

Offline h20power

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #66 on: December 12, 2016, 05:20:09 PM »
Hi Brad,


Right now I have to wait for the parts of the new VIC to be made for me before I can get back to testing as something burned up in the last one I made. Oh, and I made a mistake the bars are 3/16" not 1/8" but I still should have use some 1/4" bars. I just thought you'd like to see a design that allows for the testing of laser energy that is fairly simply in build and design.The plate surface area is approximately the same as the ten cell tubular array and they seem to have the same capacitance as the voltage stays about the same if I swap one out for the other while testing. One thing you should know about going for the threshold for ionization is it's an all or nothing type of situation. Failure to reach the threshold voltage for ionization results in little to no gas generation and most people get discouraged when trying to figure out how to design a VIC transformer that will apply the right voltage to the cell due to this all or nothing situation.


For those that don't understand the wording I am using think of an ozone generator's mode of operation http://www.bystat.com/pages/info/articles/Articles_ComplianceEngineering_sep06.pdf as it is much the same process. If you don't reach a high enough voltage to bring on the ionization of the air molecules nothing happens, correct? This technology is no different as the water molecules are being broken down by way of an ionizing radiation field that targets both atoms at the same time with Meyer's technology.


I will try and make a video showing how this voltage dissociation is different from standard electrolysis, but know that I have already posted a lot of the science behind the technology for everyone's consumption. I tried posting some photos but I guess they are too big as it wouldn't let me. Anyway I thought you'd like to see a design such as this for it is fairly easy to build and control the parameters. If you want to push more amps just remember to use a thicker wire size for the spring connections. I will normally only push around 0.5-0.8 mA through the water bath which really doesn't effect the water's temperature over time as the unit is running. In fact I have noticed that it will follow the temperatures of the day when I am testing it for long periods of time.


Anyway keep up the good testing as this is the only way these technologies will ever be solved as it takes a lot of trial and error to learn just how this technology works.


Ed


This is the setup I use the most: http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y320/h2opower/002_zpslttdixbz.jpg

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #66 on: December 12, 2016, 05:20:09 PM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2016, 12:43:18 AM »
Brad, because the cell plate spacing is very small, the conductivity of the tap water is high enough to cause a large current at relatively small voltages. Tap water I've tested has a conductivity of around 200 microSiemens.  So you are basically doing normal electrolysis. Low V and high current. You need to start diluting the tap water with distilled water from the supermarket. This will allow you to pass much higher voltages for the same current.  The distilled water is demineralized but it will conduct some current because it is not ultra pure. For that you need 18 meg water which is even more demineralized and degassed as carbon dioxide from the air very quickly dissolves in it and conducts as it becomes carbonic acid. Even then , the 18 meg water conducts a very tiny amount because water molecules disassociate into H+ and OH- in a very small extent naturally and will conduct with a resistivity of 18megaohms cm  , hence the name of the ultra pure water.  I've briefly tested 18M water for insulation by trying to pass about 50KV through a 20cm column and could not get a spark out of the other end, although the small Tesla coil was capable of 1.5 inch sparks. The supermarket water should be plenty good enough for most tests.


Ed, have you been able to produce more moles of gas per mole of electrons as predicted by Faraday using your setup, based on a single cell ? If so do you have some examples of avg current ,time, gas volume at room temp and pressure and number of cell plates?


Cheers Pomo.

Offline seychelles

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #68 on: December 13, 2016, 02:07:46 AM »
MY TWO BOBS WORTH . WE WILL NOT SEE A GREAT IMPROVEMENT IN ELECTROLYSIS OD WATER ,UNLESS ONE USE
A CATALYST LIKE NANO NICKEL, OR MAYBE GRAPHENE. SO THE ANSWER IS IN A NEW CATALYTIC MATERIAL..

Offline h20power

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2016, 03:55:22 AM »
Hello Pomo,


I haven't made a video of such but I use an analog micro amp meter for these test. The hard part of all of this is reaching the voltage to ionize the electrons of the atoms that make up the water molecules, but as I stated in the pdf file it is the waveform itself that is the primary source of amp restriction with Meyer's technology as it will act almost as an AC wave when tuned correctly.  http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y320/h2opower/958be1cd-5c66-4641-a4c0-1ffbdd648382_zps6f7c4c6f.jpg
In this test you can see I was pushing only 22 mA through the water bath and now that I understand how to tune it properly I am only pushing around 0.5-0.8 mA through the water bath and would actually need to get a new scale to read it with more accuracy. What I find wrong with most that want to work on Meyer's technology is they don't understand how to tune it correctly or just what the waveform is supposed to look like and why it is suppose to look that way. When tuning for resonance it's best to have a circuit that can control the number of pulses being sent to the FET that is independent of the frequency and the gating. I simply set up my circuit to have 5 pulses, apply the gating, and then tune the frequency for resonance. When resonance is found the waveform will have a positive and a negative voltage to it that are about equal if the coils can power the load of the water fuel cell that it is hooked up to. The circuit I use comes from here: http://source-for-innovations.com/pgen.htm but is itself a work in progress but it allows me far more control of the pulsing than any circuit I have worked with in the past as I can even vary the duty in real time. The more equal the positive and negative are in the waveform the higher the amp restriction and the higher the voltage will be.


When I get the newest VIC transformer built I should be able get the voltage far higher than I have ever gotten them before in the past as each time I fail I learn something new about the technology and how it all works and trust me I have failed a lot. I am different from most that are working on this technology in that I went after the science behind the technology before I went to try and duplicate it. After finding the science behind this technology I had to learn how to build the technology correctly just like everyone else but with the science understood I had a direction to go in. Each resonant cavity or space gap in the plate cell must have 1000 volts or more of potential difference if they are built close to Meyer's standards. That is to say they need 500 volts positive and 500 volts negative in the waveform for each resonant cavity. For a cell such as mines that number must be multiplied by 10 as I have ten cells hooked up in series. This means I have to reach a minimum of 10kv before the either cell will fire up correctly and I will admit I haven't reach it yet but have gotten very close reaching 9.4kv in the last round of testing. But the science behind all of this is clear to me now so I know what is needed to break the bonds of the water molecules in a way that is outside of Dr. Faraday's electrolysis method as I found the science behind this technology. The goal is to get at the electrons of the atoms that make up the water molecules as once the electrons are taken away the water molecules simply fall apart. I have had to build so many VIC transformers in the road towards learning how to get the voltages up to this threshold voltage I discovered. Will the new VIC transformer work? Not sure but I will find out after it is built. I have only gotten it to work a few times and each time the transformers shorted out on me I hope to have solved that problem now.


When it is time I will see what I can do to bring this technology to the market place.


Ed

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2016, 03:55:22 AM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2016, 04:01:44 AM »
Ed
Your Images need to be resized before posting [Way too big],otherwise we have to put the sneakers on and run back and forth to read all the posts on the page !

respectfully
Chet K

Offline h20power

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #71 on: December 13, 2016, 04:12:19 AM »
Ed
Your Images need to be resized before posting [Way too big],otherwise we have to put the sneakers on and run back and forth to read all the posts on the page !

respectfully
Chet K


Agreed, got to figure out how to do that, LOL.


I'll limit my photos until I figure out this sit more.


Thanks for pointing that out to me,
Ed


Offline Magluvin

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #72 on: December 13, 2016, 05:58:00 AM »
I use Picpick to edit and resize pics.

http://download.cnet.com/PicPick/3000-2192_4-75072925.html

Just load the pic in picpick and use the Resize function and bring the pic size to 30% then save to a folder for uploads to post.

Mags

Offline wattsup

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #73 on: December 13, 2016, 06:32:55 AM »
@h2Opower

Please resample your image size before you post, or edit your posts with small resampled images.

@TinMan

One possible way to increase production. If you can find a small aquarium pump X in the direction shown then the return line Y
raised to the left red arrow (or an internal baffle), this will increase the volume change and remove bubbles quicker thus
establishing or maintaining a higher saturation of water between the plates.

Remember your last data shows lower efficiency with higher amps, because at higher amps the space between the plates that is
supposed to be filled with H2O is over-satured by gas bubbles that lowers the "conductivity" thus at higher amps this problem
grows more then the gas.

Question: Above inter-plate spacing, did you first do test with two plates where you can vary the space in between while you
check gas output at a given feed source. If this is not done, how do you know the spacing is optimal. Again your last data shows
there could be a missed variable - that is the same higher amps at higher plate spacing. Just to say, there are many factors
indeed.

Yes the physical vibrating helps but I bet H2O volume change is even more important. If you can keep the water always moving
you should increase gas production in the topology of your build. If you fill the cell with water, then empty the water into a
measuring cup this will give you the volume. then your water pump can be for 1, 2 or 3 volumes changes per let's say one
minute.

Also, maybe this is too simplistic but the idea of what if you had two transformers, one at 180 degrees off phase, both rectified
then connected to your cells as follows;

Use Variac as AC in too both transformers in parallel.......
1st Transformer after rectified connect negative to center plate and positive to the end plates.
2nd Transformer after rectified connect negative to the end plates and positive to the center plate.

Last thing, I grabbed an image on my Hydrogen 2 video and explain an alternative to how the gas is actually made. This method
would mean there is no electron being cascaded anywhere as @ramset had referred to that article of "how conductivity happens
in water". Basically, it's the minerals that have an affinity for "electrified" plates that dart towards the plate so fast that they go
straight line and cut a micro stream, of fractured H2O into their constituent parts. This would be major shift from the standard
physics explanations. I could provide more detail that would give guys some fresh angles.

wattsup

I wonder, what if a small the water pump was gas run. hehehe



Offline Magluvin

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #74 on: December 13, 2016, 07:31:46 AM »
@h2Opower

Please resample your image size before you post, or edit your posts with small resampled images.

@TinMan

One possible way to increase production. If you can find a small aquarium pump X in the direction shown then the return line Y
raised to the left red arrow (or an internal baffle), this will increase the volume change and remove bubbles quicker thus
establishing or maintaining a higher saturation of water between the plates.

Remember your last data shows lower efficiency with higher amps, because at higher amps the space between the plates that is
supposed to be filled with H2O is over-satured by gas bubbles that lowers the "conductivity" thus at higher amps this problem
grows more then the gas.

Question: Above inter-plate spacing, did you first do test with two plates where you can vary the space in between while you
check gas output at a given feed source. If this is not done, how do you know the spacing is optimal. Again your last data shows
there could be a missed variable - that is the same higher amps at higher plate spacing. Just to say, there are many factors
indeed.

Yes the physical vibrating helps but I bet H2O volume change is even more important. If you can keep the water always moving
you should increase gas production in the topology of your build. If you fill the cell with water, then empty the water into a
measuring cup this will give you the volume. then your water pump can be for 1, 2 or 3 volumes changes per let's say one
minute.

Also, maybe this is too simplistic but the idea of what if you had two transformers, one at 180 degrees off phase, both rectified
then connected to your cells as follows;

Use Variac as AC in too both transformers in parallel.......
1st Transformer after rectified connect negative to center plate and positive to the end plates.
2nd Transformer after rectified connect negative to the end plates and positive to the center plate.

Last thing, I grabbed an image on my Hydrogen 2 video and explain an alternative to how the gas is actually made. This method
would mean there is no electron being cascaded anywhere as @ramset had referred to that article of "how conductivity happens
in water". Basically, it's the minerals that have an affinity for "electrified" plates that dart towards the plate so fast that they go
straight line and cut a micro stream, of fractured H2O into their constituent parts. This would be major shift from the standard
physics explanations. I could provide more detail that would give guys some fresh angles.

wattsup

I wonder, what if a small the water pump was gas run. hehehe

Hey Watts

Totally agree with forcing the bubbles off the plates and in the areas between plates.  Recommended pumping water through earlier.

What sort of camera did you use to take the pics and vid?

Mags


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #74 on: December 13, 2016, 07:31:46 AM »

 

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