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Author Topic: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"  (Read 22084 times)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2016, 08:46:52 AM »
I did ask that very question at OUR,but got no reply's.

Here is one of the video's i was talking about.
You can clearly see the hydrogen migrating to the anode ,from the cathode.

I downloaded the video,and then used VLC media player to watch in full screen,and at 1/10 the speed. You can clearly see that at least half the hydrogen is migrating to the anode,and mixing with the oxygen,and reforming back to water,as very little of it actually breaks away,and rises to the top of the water. You can see which bubbles do make it to the top of the water,as they turn blurry as they get close to the microscope lenz--out of focus.

Most say this just dose not happen,and i would agree--once the HHO has made it out of the electromagnetic field of the cell plates. But while they are within the electromagnetic field of the cell plates,they can indeed reform back to there original state--that being water.

This was a great experiment carried out by wattsup--many thanks to him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbpLVSwIkeE


Brad

That is a very interesting vid. Thanks for posting and thanks to Watts for even coming up with the idea and doing it.

The bubbles only going one way seems to tell that the water disassembly happens on the left electrode. And it makes sense. Like why would there be the same function happening on the neg plate as would on the positive plate? So maybe the bubbles become charged and are attracted to the other electrode.

I see what you mean saying the bubbles seem to disappear. But they are small bubbles and the larger ones on the right electrode get larger as it goes. Say if a large bubble were only say 4 times the dia of 1 small bubble and then we add that small bubble to the large one, the increase in the large bubbles dia would be barely noticeable in the vid. And there may be large bubbles on the opposite side of the electrode that we cant see that are taking on small bubbles.

Its weird. Like if we do the inverted test tubes in a flask of water solution and put an electrode in one inverted tube and another electrode in the other, one test tube produces only oxygen and the other only fills with hydrogen. If the split happens at both electrodes, then what happened to the hydrogen atoms in the O2 test tube and what happened to the O2 in the Hydrogen test tube??

Never thought of it at this level before, and I should have.

The bubbles on the plates that stick probably and or possibly take up plate surface area. Having the water flow past the plates could possibly increase production by keeping the bubbles moving.



Mags

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2016, 08:46:52 AM »

Offline pomodoro

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2016, 10:02:49 AM »
The cool video also shows that frequency has little to do with production of gases. 1Hz being the same as KHz. The double layer at the electrodes acts as a smoothing capacitor. It has a value of many microfarads. The double layer capacitance is used in some super capacitors. If the Sig gen has no blocking diode then you should see a break in gas production at low frequency because the output of the generator is a NPN/PNP driver. If a diode was used to convert the square AC to DC then the PNP can't discharge the double layer during the zero volts and it discharges by electrolysing water, hence the continuous gas production.


Offline Magluvin

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2016, 03:52:42 AM »
Im thinking of doing the experiment that Watts did while filming. Looking at some usb microscopes to poss do the vid. Thinking to isolate the electrodes except for the surfaces facing each other to hopefully clearly see what is going on.

Looked at some YT vids of animations of what happens. Like the 2 inverted test tubes, it is showing the H from the O tube to be transferred to the other electrode by going down ??? in the test tube and over to the other test tube. And I guess vice verse.  Seems like an odd travel situation for gas atoms in water. :o Would they all get to the other tube without escaping the water by floating up and out before it reaches the other tube? In that setup is it possible that some of the gas produced may escape before making it to the other electrode? Lots of questions come to mind.

Mags

Offline ramset

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2016, 08:47:23 AM »


Mags
These fellows[and gals] took snapshots too

https://futurism.com/it-took-over-200-years-but-scientists-finally-figured-out-how-water-conducts-electricity/

how wonderful to see the mechanism at work ....

@ this was shared by Giantkiller at OUR last week.


thx

Chet K


Offline h20power

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2016, 06:38:48 PM »

Mags
These fellows[and gals] took snapshots too

https://futurism.com/it-took-over-200-years-but-scientists-finally-figured-out-how-water-conducts-electricity/

how wonderful to see the mechanism at work ....

@ this was shared by Giantkiller at OUR last week.


thx

Chet K


Interesting read. It kinda goes along with the way I approached the work of Stanley Meyer in that I figured main stream science must have missed something in it's understanding of water and life sciences in general. As such I found something that was overlooked and that was how plants actually break the bonds of the water molecules. It turns out that water molecules are even being broken down in a thunder storm practically the same way Meyer had figured out how to break the bonds of the water molecules outside of Dr. Faraday's electrolysis method.


My findings show there is another way to break the bonds of the water molecules outside of Dr. Faraday's electrolysis method that is far more efficient than energy the requirements for electrolysis. The science I uncovered will lead to a whole new era of scientific discovery. Water the stuff we all know but know so little about is now being figured out which will improve our understanding of the way things work in this world as it basically takes the magic out of the equation for magic is just science we don't fully understand yet.


Thanks for the post

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2016, 06:38:48 PM »
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Offline massive

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2016, 06:53:03 PM »
...tell ye what , I second that  ^^^   ;0)  lol
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 01:38:36 AM by massive »

Offline gravityblock

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2016, 07:45:26 AM »

Mags
These fellows[and gals] took snapshots too

https://futurism.com/it-took-over-200-years-but-scientists-finally-figured-out-how-water-conducts-electricity/

how wonderful to see the mechanism at work ....

@ this was shared by Giantkiller at OUR last week.


thx

Chet K

The second liquid state of water occurs between 104o - 140o Fahrenheit (video).  The properties of liquid water, such as it's thermal conductivity, refractive index, conductivity, surface tension, and the dielectric constant changes within that temperature range.  Each property has a different 'crossover temperature' somewhere within this threshold, and the researchers suggest that this is because the liquid water has switched into a different phase (reference).   Temperature difference between electrodes...(Proceedings of the Faraday Society).

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2016, 07:45:26 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2016, 11:00:25 AM »


My findings show there is another way to break the bonds of the water molecules outside of Dr. Faraday's electrolysis method that is far more efficient than energy the requirements for electrolysis.

There was a guy here sometime back, years, that was trying to show us how to do hydrolysis without electrodes, but rather a test tube with a coil of wire around it at say midpoint and input a certain level at certain freq and the lye he said was a metal, and the coil induced the metal in the water solution and said it produced a profuse amount of gas. The solution he said had to be saturated to work. Nobody got it to work if I remember.

Mags

Offline citfta

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2016, 12:41:24 PM »
For many years it was thought the only way to build a CO2 laser was to energize the gases with a spark.  But the Trumpf company in Germany found a way to do it with RF instead.  Their laser was the most efficient laser in the world back in the 1990s when I went to school on it.  I have been retired from industry for almost 10 years now so I have no idea what has been done since then.

But thinking the old way of doing something is the only way it can be done is very foolish.  Just my 2 cents or whatever.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2016, 09:03:32 PM »
Hi PW

Yes,i already have a condenser,plus primary and secondary dryer's.

The water will also not rise above 30*C,as we are using a high voltage and low current.

I have seen too many video's ,where steam is poring out of the output tube,and they think it is all HHO.
No such error's will happen here.

I will also be subtracting 10% of gas volume from the end result -as an error buffer.


Brad

High voltage and low current to keep the water from transitioning and changing into it's second liquid state, which occurs between 40°C - 60°C (104°F - 140°F) appears to be the key.  More misdirection by Mainstream science (scientism).  They're always giving it to us backwards.... LOL.

Great Job Brad!!!

Gravock



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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2016, 09:03:32 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2016, 09:25:50 PM »
As we will be using high grade (316L) S/S,and no additives to the water,there will be no byproduct left in the cells.

All water conduct's,no matter how pure it is,as all water is full of H and O atoms.
The less conductive(higher purity)the water is,the higher the voltage we use.
And the higher the voltage we can use,the less current we need--and the less current we use,the lower the temperature the cell will run at. This means that more of the delivered power is used to produce gas,and less used to produce heat-unlike those who used low voltages and high currents--such as that which Faraday's limit was calculated from.


Brad

Faraday's limit was calculated from the second liquid state of water.  Faraday's limit doesn't apply to the first liquid state of water!  ROFLMAO!!!

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2016, 09:44:08 PM »
Brad,

I like this project of yours a lot, I really do.

Just curious, are you basing your idea in any way on the supposed Stan Meyer Technology, or is this just an idea you came up with (having seen hundreds of thousands of other crazy ideas over the years) ?

I've been studying Meyer's work pretty intensely as of late and I see quite a few similarities, just expressed differently.  I've even been working with a guy out of Tennessee that feels as though he has replicated Meyer's VIC & WFC.  He makes a fair amount of gas at 50mA @ 12v and claims this gas is actually more powerful than typical HHO.  I can't say one way or another about that, I don't have the facts, just his words.  Been trying to walk in his footsteps and see if I can do myself what he has done.  So far it's been a bit of a conundrum--some concepts seem easy and others start to get real complex, real fast.  The fundamental idea behind what Meyer supposedly did is simple--you switch off the molecular bonds that hold the water molecule together and it just naturally falls apart.  There's no brute force involved whatsoever.  But to get there, you have to transition through various states that configure the water molecules in such a fashion where they will come apart without force.  That's the tricky part.  You need just the right amount of overlap between states and the electronics have to be designed and tuned to do this.  If you mess any part of this up, it's a no go.

Anyway, I'll keep plugging along, but I'll certainly be watching how your project pans out.  I like simple and if you have a method for simple that will run a small engine that turns a generator and produces enough output to drive the portion of your system that makes the fuel, that's the ticket right there.  No need to go any further.

Good luck Brad.  I'm pulling for you.


M@

You hit the nail on the head!!!

Gravock


Offline pomodoro

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2016, 12:30:46 AM »
Faraday's limit was calculated from the second liquid state of water.  Faraday's limit doesn't apply to the first liquid state of water!  ROFLMAO!!!

Gravock


Interesting, where exactly can I find the scientific article for this special state of water?

Offline gravityblock

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2016, 10:04:07 AM »

Interesting, where exactly can I find the scientific article for this special state of water?

On the existence of two states in liquid water: Impact on biological and nanoscopic systems


Gravock


Offline pomodoro

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2016, 11:00:02 AM »

On the existence of two states in liquid water: Impact on biological and nanoscopic systems


Gravock


Awesome!

Edit,

 Ok had a good read snd its  quite interesting. To me  it seems that the changes are rather miniscule and thats why it took so long to come to the conclusion of the two states.

Unfortunately I can guarantee you that for normal electrolysis it would make no difference, as any such changes are already incorporated in the thermodynamic formula by virtue of the entropy (S) factor which has been measured for water at various temperatures already.  S does change with temp but by very little.

For other methods, well in theory the first law of thermodynamics still holds, and it should take the same energy, but cross your fingers and  lets see what magic Brad can do for us ...
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 01:31:44 PM by pomodoro »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2016, 11:00:02 AM »

 

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