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Author Topic: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"  (Read 12548 times)

Offline wattsup

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2016, 09:02:49 PM »
Wattsup

That is not the point to the setup.
The thing we want to do here,is create a high voltage DC offset AC wave form,and when the secondary short's via the spark gap,this sends a very high burst of current into the cell. This in turn raises the voltage across the cell to a high value.

You can place a hammer on a nail,and push on the hammer all you like,and chances are,you will not drive the nail into the timber. Yet,if you hit the nail with short sharp blow's from the hammer,the nail will be driven into the timber.

Brad

@TinMan

Just saw in your video working at mains 60Hz to your step down then rectified. So on that particular set-up following my previous post would take 5 minutes and you will see if gas is better then your .5 or .75 lpm. A good step down transformer would do.

Could say more but details would be boring.

wattsup

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2016, 09:02:49 PM »

Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2016, 11:58:45 PM »
@TinMan

Just saw in your video working at mains 60Hz to your step down then rectified. So on that particular set-up following my previous post would take 5 minutes and you will see if gas is better then your .5 or .75 lpm. A good step down transformer would do.

Could say more but details would be boring.

wattsup

Well we could safely assume that the outcome would be better with the bulb attached to the secondary,as the impedance of the primary would be reduced when the secondary is loaded,due to a decrease in inductance value of the primary.

I would expect no better gas production with a transformer in series with the rectified output and cell,but i will give it a try along the way.


Brad


Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2016, 12:21:16 AM »
Brad,

I like this project of yours a lot, I really do.

Just curious, are you basing your idea in any way on the supposed Stan Meyer Technology, or is this just an idea you came up with (having seen hundreds of thousands of other crazy ideas over the years) ?

I've been studying Meyer's work pretty intensely as of late and I see quite a few similarities, just expressed differently.  I've even been working with a guy out of Tennessee that feels as though he has replicated Meyer's VIC & WFC.  He makes a fair amount of gas at 50mA @ 12v and claims this gas is actually more powerful than typical HHO.  I can't say one way or another about that, I don't have the facts, just his words.  Been trying to walk in his footsteps and see if I can do myself what he has done.  So far it's been a bit of a conundrum--some concepts seem easy and others start to get real complex, real fast.  The fundamental idea behind what Meyer supposedly did is simple--you switch off the molecular bonds that hold the water molecule together and it just naturally falls apart.  There's no brute force involved whatsoever.  But to get there, you have to transition through various states that configure the water molecules in such a fashion where they will come apart without force.  That's the tricky part.  You need just the right amount of overlap between states and the electronics have to be designed and tuned to do this.  If you mess any part of this up, it's a no go.

Anyway, I'll keep plugging along, but I'll certainly be watching how your project pans out.  I like simple and if you have a method for simple that will run a small engine that turns a generator and produces enough output to drive the portion of your system that makes the fuel, that's the ticket right there.  No need to go any further.

Good luck Brad.  I'm pulling for you.


M@

Hi Dog-One

I guess it is much the same.
I like to think of it as !cutting! the bond,as apposed to tearing it apart,as you do with brute force systems.

The water molecule is much like a rubber band,and brute force HHO is like trying to stretch that rubber band until it break's. Here we place a slight tension on the rubber band,then take a sharp blade and cut through it.

See the water as a fast blow fuse,where that fuse may be able to pass a lot of current through it,and where you keep winding up the current until that fuse blow's,or you pass very little current through it,and hit it with one large short current pulse,and that fuse blow's.


Brad

Offline pomodoro

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2016, 03:30:09 PM »
Guys, I swear you can hear crickets chirping if you listen hard enough.


Just to bump up this important thread, who actually agrees that 20Vx 0.4 A can make as much as 2V x 4A in exactly the same cell, with the only difference being that the second has electrolyte added to make it conductive? Don't be shy now. The watts are the same after all. Please explain your reasoning and please don't flame anyone. :(


Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2016, 12:00:27 AM »



Just to bump up this important thread, who actually agrees that 20Vx 0.4 A can make as much as 2V x 4A in exactly the same cell, with the only difference being that the second has electrolyte added to make it conductive? Don't be shy now. The watts are the same after all. Please explain your reasoning and please don't flame anyone. :(

pomodoro

Ask your self this-
If less gas is being produced using the same amount of power,but at a higher voltage,and lower current,and less heat is also produced using a higher voltage/lower current-->where is the power going ?,as it is not producing as much gas,or as much heat-it simply cannot just up and disappear.

While we are at it-a question--
I had always thought that Faradays limit converted to an MMW of 9.28,but it wouls seem that after some calculations from a well known physics professor of these forums,that the faraday MMW limit is actually lower at just 8.57  :o
Do you agree with this number ?.

Quote
Guys, I swear you can hear crickets chirping if you listen hard enough.

Some of us have to work during the week,and also have family commitments as well.
There is also the fact that when doing something like this,very accurate measuring equipment must be designed and built--so as !some! cannot say the measurements are wrong.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2016, 12:00:27 AM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2016, 01:09:10 AM »
Pomo
Some peeps hear crickets....others hear Bizzy bee's

a lotta Buzzin going on ATM.

respectfully

Chet K

Offline pomodoro

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2016, 04:06:14 AM »
Bit busy for a full reply ATM but quick calcs reveal 8.5 ml per wattminute at 25 deg C using values of 22.4L/mole, 96485.33 for F and in an open system (const pressure of 101.3 kpa and heat from room heating water back to 25C immediately.) this is the absolute best at those conditions, never achieved by anyone apparently. It requires 1.23v. Next value is the thermoneutral of 7.05 ml which is sometimes used. Even this value is possibly impossible again at the above temp and pressure but this time 1.48v is required. There is actually a massive assumption here that the electrodes are perfectly non polarizable meaning that an incredibly small increase above the 1.23V is enough to make the required current for the 1W flow.
Increases in temp lower those voltages and increase the mmw value.
As far as Faradays law is concerned, Brad , you have killed it by a factor of 10 if the measurements of current and volumes  are correct. Faraday's law is extremely precise unlike the above mmw calcs and volts have nothing to do with it.Temperature has no effect (below the thermal decomposition temp ie plasma electrolysis). Perhaps the smart chap you mention can clarify this for you.
Cheers for now pomo.
 Oh BTW the crickets were due to the lack of comments by readers, assuming people are reading but keeping quiet. ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2016, 04:06:14 AM »
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Offline MagnaProp

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2016, 05:34:44 AM »
...As far as Faradays law is concerned, Brad , you have killed it by a factor of 10 if the measurements of current and volumes  are correct...
Sounds great to me. Congrats to the Tinman for your work! I don't have a clue how to handle this gas safely so it'll be a while before I try to replicate it. Thanks in the mean time for the how to videos.

Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2016, 11:52:27 AM »
@TinMan

It's been a while. Hope you are keeping well.

About your set-up running at 60Hz, look, maybe you can try this side test.

With your set-up the way it is, find yourself a step down transformer. Connect the lower voltage side in series with negative that is coming from the rectifier to your stack. See the gas output volume. Then add a bulb as load on the high voltage side of the step down transformer. Then try the same thing in series on the positive side of the rectifier. Then if you want you can try it both ways with the higher side of the step down transformer in series.

See if there is an increase in gas production in one or more of those ways.

I'll leave it at that. Keep well.

wattsup

Wattsup

Remember the thread at OUR,where you video'd the production of HHO through your microscope ?.

As i recall,there was a good percentage of the HHO gas recombining back to water,before it had a chance to leave the cell,or rise to the top of the water.

I reviewed the video's,but dont seem to recall the voltage across the two electrodes.
Is there any chance that you can do this again,but this time use a high voltage,with a very narrow pulse width,and see if there is any recombination of the gases back to water.

This is a loss that very few people know about,and is worth showing.


Brad

Offline Magluvin

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2016, 03:23:23 AM »
Are you sure it is reforming into water, or is it possibly the gas bubbles are at first hot and expanding then quickly cooled by the water surrounding the bubbles therefor bubble shrinkage? ??? ;D

Mags


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2016, 03:23:23 AM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2016, 03:59:58 AM »
Recombinstion extremely unlikely unless platinum or perhaps palladium is used. It was an issue in some of the cold fusion experiments of the 80s. Other common metals are non catalytic .H2 and O2 can sit together for a thousand years without a flame or a catalyst.

Offline MagnaProp

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2016, 05:21:10 AM »
Could Tinman's system be used in a boat to power its self?

I'm assuming the current HHO under-Faraday  production system would require a boat to take in more water than it could propel itself with.


Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2016, 05:36:21 AM »
Are you sure it is reforming into water, or is it possibly the gas bubbles are at first hot and expanding then quickly cooled by the water surrounding the bubbles therefor bubble shrinkage? ??? ;D

Mags

Hi Mags

I will dig up wattsup's videos for you-if they were not unlisted ones.
You can see plain as day,large gas bubbles there one second,and then just gone the next. No shrinking in size as they cooled-just gone. These large bubbles eould sit on the electrode for some time,and then they just would not be there.

Im going to coppy the videos,and watch them in slow motion,then frame by frame.
These videos were filmed through a microscope,and provided a look into hho production that very few have seen.


Brad

Offline Magluvin

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2016, 05:41:48 AM »
Hey Brad

Not coming down on your observation. ;D Just was thinking about possibilities.

Id like to see the vids. Interesting. I wonder if like a fuel cell it is maybe putting current back in the system, if the O and H are converting back to water. ???

Mags


Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2016, 10:15:08 AM »
Hey Brad

Not coming down on your observation. ;D Just was thinking about possibilities.

Id like to see the vids. Interesting. I wonder if like a fuel cell it is maybe putting current back in the system, if the O and H are converting back to water. ???

Mags

I did ask that very question at OUR,but got no reply's.

Here is one of the video's i was talking about.
You can clearly see the hydrogen migrating to the anode ,from the cathode.

I downloaded the video,and then used VLC media player to watch in full screen,and at 1/10 the speed. You can clearly see that at least half the hydrogen is migrating to the anode,and mixing with the oxygen,and reforming back to water,as very little of it actually breaks away,and rises to the top of the water. You can see which bubbles do make it to the top of the water,as they turn blurry as they get close to the microscope lenz--out of focus.

Most say this just dose not happen,and i would agree--once the HHO has made it out of the electromagnetic field of the cell plates. But while they are within the electromagnetic field of the cell plates,they can indeed reform back to there original state--that being water.

This was a great experiment carried out by wattsup--many thanks to him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbpLVSwIkeE


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2016, 10:15:08 AM »

 

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