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Author Topic: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"  (Read 14705 times)

Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2016, 05:45:30 AM »
Most people don't realize that during normal electrolysis with just a few volts and a strong electrolyte, the water molecule splits because the electric field at the electrodes is in the order of millions of volts per meter. It can reach 100 million V/m. A strong electrolyte with a small inter electrode distance conduct the current very effectively with very low IxR losses, minimizing heating. The voltage drop thus  occurs mostly across the Helmholtz electric double layer which is nanometers thick, hence the great field.  8)

I have to strongly disagree  with that,and my results from previous  experiments back up my disagreement with your statement  about low voltages,and high currents.

No matter what,the higher the current,and lower the voltage-the greater the loss by way of waste heat.

What i am saying is this-
If i add enough electrolyte to my water,so as to have 2.2v @4.5 amps per cell section,in my multi plate cell,i produce say 1 liter of gas a minute,and after 10 minutes,my water temperature is 42*C

If i use straight tap water, and have 22v at 450mA per cell section,in my multy plate cell,and i produce 1.2 liters of hho per minute,and my water temperature after 10 minutes is only 23*C, then it is obvious that a higher voltage at a lower current,is far more efficient than high current brute force hho production.


Brad

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2016, 05:45:30 AM »

Offline pomodoro

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2016, 06:48:43 AM »
Brad, if you can show a beaker with  only  tap water, 20 or so volts  and only 400mA visually produce the same quantity of gas at the electrodes  as a beaker with sodium hydroxide electrolyte ,   4 amps  and just a few volts then you already have a system waaaay over Faraday!!!!.

 After all its the current that counts according to Faraday, and the electrolyte beaker should be making ten times the gas. But do make sure the electrodes are of the same dimensions and the supply is pure DC only! Any AC or pulsed DC must be measured with oscilloscopes to get the correct average current flows.

The info I posted is from the book "Electrochemical Methods,  Fundamentals and Applications by A.J. Bard and L.R. Faulkner.

if you can show just that, and its easily replicated, then Sir, you are really onto something big.




Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2016, 02:29:33 AM »


 After all its the current that counts according to Faraday, and the electrolyte beaker should be making ten times the gas. But do make sure the electrodes are of the same dimensions and the supply is pure DC only! Any AC or pulsed DC must be measured with oscilloscopes to get the correct average current flows.

The info I posted is from the book "Electrochemical Methods,  Fundamentals and Applications by A.J. Bard and L.R. Faulkner.

if you can show just that, and its easily replicated, then Sir, you are really onto something big.

Quote
Brad, if you can show a beaker with  only  tap water, 20 or so volts  and only 400mA visually produce the same quantity of gas at the electrodes  as a beaker with sodium hydroxide electrolyte ,   4 amps  and just a few volts then you already have a system waaaay over Faraday!!!!.

Im not sure how you worked that out?.
20v @ 400mA=8 watts
2v @ 4 amps=8 watts

Same power value,but where as the current is lower in one,then the waste heat is also lower,and so more energy is directed at producing gas.


Brad

Offline pomodoro

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2016, 03:20:23 AM »
Its Faraday's law. Only the current is responsible for the amount of gas produced. That's why 4 amps makes 10 times the gas that 0.4 makes regardless of the voltage required to pass the current. Try it out side by side 4A in a strong electrolyte vs 0.4 in tap water.



Offline barbosi

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2016, 02:40:40 PM »
...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2016, 02:40:40 PM »
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Offline Erfinder

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2016, 02:44:11 PM »
...

Online ramset

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2016, 03:23:11 PM »
Hmmm
Well ,Brad is at an event [with family] for a few days ,

on the above comments which now read   "..."

I suspect there will ultimately be much conjecture on the actual MO of what Brad has done !

and plenty of scrutiny , but that's why we're here !!

respectfully
Chet K





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2016, 03:23:11 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline i_ron

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2016, 05:08:52 PM »
Hmmm
Well ,Brad is at an event [with family] for a few days ,

on the above comments which now read   "..."

I suspect there will ultimately be much conjecture on the actual MO of what Brad has done !

and plenty of scrutiny , but that's why we're here !!

respectfully
Chet K


Chet,


To preserve the sanity of this thread I would suggest you have Stefan ban the thread wreckers barbosi and erfinder (Steve Gillis) immediately. He has nothing to bring to this group but the ability to take it down to the cesspool level.


Ron




Offline Erfinder

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2016, 05:20:24 PM »

Chet,


To preserve the sanity of this thread I would suggest you have Stefan ban the thread wreckers barbosi and erfinder (Steve Gillis) immediately. He has nothing to bring to this group but the ability to take it down to the cesspool level.


Ron


F U C K O F F

Offline barbosi

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2016, 08:35:30 PM »

Chet,


To preserve the sanity of this thread I would suggest you have Stefan ban the thread wreckers barbosi and erfinder (Steve Gillis) immediately. He has nothing to bring to this group but the ability to take it down to the cesspool level.


Ron

Panicked over 3 dots? Asking help from someone with more chutzpah than you?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2016, 08:35:30 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline webby1

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2016, 09:37:09 PM »
Why do you think he is panicked?

This does seem to be a pattern that this person has exhibited prior,, since no helpful information is forth coming AND there seems to be an escalation in hostility does it not make sense to request some form of control over the posting of said person?

I can already make a motor that increases current draw to accelerate,, not an increase in voltage,, this is what was used to demonstrate something but the way I can do it put me in the what category??

Right now, to me, it would seem that what has been discussed is nothing new and the promise of a new perspective is a false promise.

Offline wattsup

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    • Spin Conveyance Theory - For a New Perspective...
Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2016, 11:40:35 PM »
@TinMan

It's been a while. Hope you are keeping well.

About your set-up running at 60Hz, look, maybe you can try this side test.

With your set-up the way it is, find yourself a step down transformer. Connect the lower voltage side in series with negative that is coming from the rectifier to your stack. See the gas output volume. Then add a bulb as load on the high voltage side of the step down transformer. Then try the same thing in series on the positive side of the rectifier. Then if you want you can try it both ways with the higher side of the step down transformer in series.

See if there is an increase in gas production in one or more of those ways.

I'll leave it at that. Keep well.

wattsup


Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2016, 05:55:57 AM »


Quote
Its Faraday's law.

It may be his,but it is not mine.

 
Quote
Only the current is responsible for the amount of gas produced.

That is incorrect.
If it were only current responsible for the production of HHO,then why a minimal voltage requirement?.

Quote
That's why 4 amps makes 10 times the gas that 0.4 makes regardless of the voltage required to pass the current. Try it out side by side 4A in a strong electrolyte vs 0.4 in tap water.

Are you talking direct current,or total average current?
I have already tested my setup against a direct current,and my setup is far more efficient.


Brad
Perhaps wait and see the results i get at the end of this project.

Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2016, 06:05:28 AM »
@TinMan

It's been a while. Hope you are keeping well.

About your set-up running at 60Hz, look, maybe you can try this side test.

With your set-up the way it is, find yourself a step down transformer. Connect the lower voltage side in series with negative that is coming from the rectifier to your stack. See the gas output volume. Then add a bulb as load on the high voltage side of the step down transformer. Then try the same thing in series on the positive side of the rectifier. Then if you want you can try it both ways with the higher side of the step down transformer in series.

See if there is an increase in gas production in one or more of those ways.

I'll leave it at that. Keep well.

wattsup

Wattsup

That is not the point to the setup.
The thing we want to do here,is create a high voltage DC offset AC wave form,and when the secondary short's via the spark gap,this sends a very high burst of current into the cell. This in turn raises the voltage across the cell to a high value.

You can place a hammer on a nail,and push on the hammer all you like,and chances are,you will not drive the nail into the timber. Yet,if you hit the nail with short sharp blow's from the hammer,the nail will be driven into the timber.


Brad


Offline Dog-One

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2016, 07:45:36 AM »
Brad,

I like this project of yours a lot, I really do.

Just curious, are you basing your idea in any way on the supposed Stan Meyer Technology, or is this just an idea you came up with (having seen hundreds of thousands of other crazy ideas over the years) ?

I've been studying Meyer's work pretty intensely as of late and I see quite a few similarities, just expressed differently.  I've even been working with a guy out of Tennessee that feels as though he has replicated Meyer's VIC & WFC.  He makes a fair amount of gas at 50mA @ 12v and claims this gas is actually more powerful than typical HHO.  I can't say one way or another about that, I don't have the facts, just his words.  Been trying to walk in his footsteps and see if I can do myself what he has done.  So far it's been a bit of a conundrum--some concepts seem easy and others start to get real complex, real fast.  The fundamental idea behind what Meyer supposedly did is simple--you switch off the molecular bonds that hold the water molecule together and it just naturally falls apart.  There's no brute force involved whatsoever.  But to get there, you have to transition through various states that configure the water molecules in such a fashion where they will come apart without force.  That's the tricky part.  You need just the right amount of overlap between states and the electronics have to be designed and tuned to do this.  If you mess any part of this up, it's a no go.

Anyway, I'll keep plugging along, but I'll certainly be watching how your project pans out.  I like simple and if you have a method for simple that will run a small engine that turns a generator and produces enough output to drive the portion of your system that makes the fuel, that's the ticket right there.  No need to go any further.

Good luck Brad.  I'm pulling for you.


M@


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2016, 07:45:36 AM »

 

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