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Author Topic: TD replications  (Read 31108 times)

Offline dieter

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #240 on: March 14, 2017, 08:39:55 AM »
Webby, as long as you give mysterious hints, you seem more like a wannabe teacher. Answering questions with a question is also symptomatic btw.


See my other thead btw.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #240 on: March 14, 2017, 08:39:55 AM »

Offline Cairun

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #241 on: March 15, 2017, 01:11:51 PM »

Luc,


Thanks for sharing your latest test results, it takes great courage to do that.
Even though the test results are not what we have hope it would be, it is still an advancement to our knowledge.


Regards,
Alex










Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #242 on: March 15, 2017, 04:55:15 PM »
Luc,

Thanks for sharing your latest test results, it takes great courage to do that.
Even though the test results are not what we have hope it would be, it is still an advancement to our knowledge.

Regards,
Alex

Thanks Alex, I'm happy to help by sharing what I find, even if the results are not favorable.
It's nothing out of the ordinary for me!...  I've been doing the same for the past 10 years.
What fuels me is hope that one day we find an energy solution for those in need.
Not for fame or fortune.

Thanks for your willingness to help

Luc

Offline dieter

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #243 on: March 15, 2017, 11:22:17 PM »
When I first read "Twist Drive" I thought it would utilize sheering force, rather than attraction / repulsion.


Maybe it does?


There is a force, turning a parallel 2nd magnet. When stopped at 90deg, it can be removed fro the 1st magnet without force, eg. by gravity. Then again by gravity it can brought in parallel position. The torque of the sheering is significantly higher than the gravity force alone.


Maybe that is also a TD.


I have made a little Toy to demonstrate it, maybe I'll post a picture later.


Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #244 on: March 18, 2017, 12:09:35 AM »
@Gotoluc

I'm not even close to being done with the PMs yet. 

Your last design was,   I guess,    near unity,  don't really know though?.  My own examinations
of interactions similar to that design left me with no understanding of why that design should  have been more than unity.  Although I did let myself get a bit carried away with your initial report.

From 60 % plus to 10% plus is a major oversight.  Can you give us some details
of that over sight ?
also
Your energy, enthusiasm and many hours of work in the shop are much appreciated.

      regards
            floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #244 on: March 18, 2017, 12:09:35 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #245 on: March 18, 2017, 02:35:24 PM »
@Gotoluc

Notes..

  The integration of the work done in the inputs via the rotating bicycle rim experiment....

1. position magnet by rotation above the sliding magnet
2. remove magnet by rotation from near the sliding magnet

may together (attractions and repulsions) come to a net work of less than either
1. or 2.  alone (just above)......

except that their peak forces were not matched / canceling one the other out.

Other wise your complete set might have shown some OU ?

                            floor

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #246 on: March 18, 2017, 05:03:31 PM »
@Gotoluc

I'm not even close to being done with the PMs yet. 

Great to hear!... please make a video demo once you have found something so I can evaluate it as well

From 60 % plus to 10% plus is a major oversight.  Can you give us some details
of that over sight ?

This link to the below quote explained the oversight: http://overunity.com/16987/td-replications/msg501737/#msg501737
this morning I decided to re-measure the first device with the most care to details.
Now the first device is showing a 10% gain which could be caused by accumulative errors from the 5 gram resolution scale.
What I found could of cause the 60% gain error is by using a different input rotor magnet then the one used for the 11mm output.
I check the rotor magnets and found they have different magnetization force. So most likely that's what happened plus the scale resolution problem.

So to revise what may of caused the 60% gain error.

1. I must of use a different rotor magnets to measure the input force then the output force when I first measured the v.1 device.
    Seems this alone can cause a 30% difference. I was surprised of how much each rotor magnet vary in force.

2. The scale I use are 20kg max luggage scale. It has a 5 gram resolution.
     The rotor input force of the first device range from 1g to 85g max. However, the scale only starts to display at 15g and above.
     So I figure it's unsuitable for accuracy when measuring below 100 grams.
     I would estimate the math averaging on the input of the first device could be off by 10 to 25% based on this resolution issue alone.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The below are the measurements done on the v.2 device

The input rotor force measured between 110g to 2.4kg, so very good data was obtained as far as the scales resolution ability.
Half of the input rotor distance (to make one output stroke) is 16 1/8 inches of circumference.
Samples were taken at every 1/8 inch distance, so 129 input distance samples were recorded in total!... giving a very good input average calculated to be 1.1kg over the 16 1/8 inch half rotor circumference.

The output force was adjusted to slide 5 inches of distance. The gram pull force measurements varied between 2.3Kg to 14.5Kg.
40 samples were taken at every 1/8 inch making an average of 6.46Kg over the 5 inch output stroke.

I've just realized I made an error (a few days back) on my final math!!!... I had the calculations of the rotor input engaging and disengaging averages calculated separately and added them together 1.24Kg + 0.957Kg = 2.2Kg but the error is, the 2.2Kg should then be divided by 2 = 1.1Kg to get the correct input rotor average over the 16.125" for half of the rotor circumference as I correctly did above.

So if we take the 16.125" rotor input travel distance and divide it by the 5" output slider distance = 3.23 times more distance the input rotor needs to travels at 1.1Kg average compared to the 5"output distance at 6.46Kg average.
So if we multiply the input average 1.1Kg x 3.23 times =  3.55Kg of comparable input force to distance needed compared to the output.
Now if we subtract this 3.55Kg of comparable input force to the 6.46Kg output force = 2.91Kg left over which is a 82% Gain over the Input.


Your energy, enthusiasm and many hours of work in the shop are much appreciated.

      regards
            floor

Thanks

Can someone look over my calculations to see if the reasoning looks to be correct.

Regards

Luc
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 07:58:00 PM by gotoluc »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #246 on: March 18, 2017, 05:03:31 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #247 on: March 18, 2017, 06:56:18 PM »
@Gotoluc

        Ok,  ha ! interesting....

Well I'll contemplate all this till it sinks in well / then give you some feed back,
when I can.

                 regards
                      floor

Offline dieter

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #248 on: March 19, 2017, 03:05:17 AM »
I was just saying - let us verify the negative results with the same care like the positive ones.


This is great news, Luc.

Offline Cairun

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #249 on: March 19, 2017, 01:00:12 PM »
Luc,


This is very encouraging news indeed.
I tried to wrap my head around this, and the attached Excel spreadsheet is the result.
Work is just force x distance and I calculated an 82% excess output work.
Hopefully, this can help others to understand it better as well.


Regards,
Alex


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #249 on: March 19, 2017, 01:00:12 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #250 on: March 19, 2017, 03:47:39 PM »
Thanks Alex

Looks very good

I'll be remeasuring the output and doubling the 40 samples to 80 sample over the 5 inch stroke.
We'll see if  that changes anything.
I'll be posting all the sample data soon.

Regards

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #251 on: March 19, 2017, 06:06:55 PM »
I've attached a xls file of my v.2 Magnet Torque Amplifier measurement data which was prepared by user webby1

Measurement Steps:

First Step:
Output slider is in rest position (already delivered output force) and is locked in position by adding a wood block.
In this position the input rotor magnet is in most attraction to the output slider magnet and this is the beginning point of the scale pull force measurements in grams.

Second Step:
Input Magnet Rotor is pulled from the rotors outer edge using a flexible steel strapping tape.
Steps 1 to 129 is a total of 16.125 linear inches of the magnet rotor outer edge travel (180 degrees) with scale pull force samples taken every 0.124 inches. 129 samples in total.
The first 57 Samples is the pull force needed to Disengage the rotor magnets from the attraction force of the output slider magnets.
Then samples 58 to 74 (in red) is the rotor magnet being temporarily attracted to the output slider magnets and why they are a negative (additive force) to the rotor.
Finally, sample 75 to 129 is the remaining pull force needed to position the rotor magnets in ideal resting position for the output slider magnets deliver maximum force.

Third Step:
Input Rotor is locked at this position which is 16.125 inch, 180 degrees from beginning measurement position.
The Output slider is released and the output slider magnets pull force is measured over its 5 linear inches (taken every 0.125 inch) of the magnet sliders output travel force.

Please note the input rotor and output slider force has been measured 180 degrees of input rotor which delivers one output stroke.
I have not bothered (at this time) to measure the other 180 degrees since in theory it should be a mirror image of the prior.

Regards

Luc


Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #252 on: March 19, 2017, 07:03:56 PM »
The below are input and output charts


Luc

Offline woopy

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #253 on: March 20, 2017, 12:16:44 AM »
Yep Luc

Fantastic work

If i understand well, the measurement begins after the stroke ends,  when the  the rotor and slider are at full stop.

I enclose a rotating drawing made on your graph, so correct me if i am wrong

Seems that  i have to order some magnets and sliding bearings  tomorrow he he !!  :)

Thank's so much for sharing

Laurent

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #254 on: March 20, 2017, 04:45:38 AM »
Bonjour Laurent

It's always a pleasure having you participate

Your understanding of the test device and timing drawings are perfect. Thank you for posting it.

Looking forward to your build and test results

Kind regards

Luc
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 04:44:01 PM by gotoluc »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #254 on: March 20, 2017, 04:45:38 AM »

 

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