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Author Topic: TD replications  (Read 23730 times)

Offline webby1

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2016, 09:55:18 PM »

Okay webby1,

to please you I added the output arm reset (return) measurement data to test 4

Seems to still have an overage

Luc

Thanks Luc,

Rounded numbers :)

Work in
0.366J
Work out
0.401J

Which is
109.63%

 and a difference of
0.035J


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2016, 09:55:18 PM »

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2016, 10:35:35 PM »
Thanks Luc,

Rounded numbers :)


Yes, that's because the scale works in 5 gram increments.
Not ideal for fine measurements but gives a general idea.
We'll get down to finer measurements in the next build if needed.


Luc

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Offline webby1

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #62 on: December 09, 2016, 01:21:50 AM »
I was actually referencing my numbers,, 8 decimal places is a little silly :)

IIRC I found that when disengaging happens,, that there is an advantage to stepping that while the RO (?) is still turning.

As you are pulling the magnet away you can set it up so that you expend a constant force to do so,, and while you are expending more energy the RO will continue to speed up due to it still seeing a torque.  You have that window around the 80-90-80 where the removal cost is comparatively low so it is easy to set the rate of change up.

Offline lumen

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #63 on: December 09, 2016, 04:45:54 AM »
I wonder if the cam effect on the slide is masking the real data.
Wouldn't it be better to collect the data from the exact movement of the magnets over the entire rotation and slide distance and then determine where the best gain occures?
The cam introduces a non linear input measurement against a linear output measurement. This is problemmatic when measuring the already non linear magnetic field.



Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #64 on: December 09, 2016, 04:17:30 PM »
IIRC I found that when disengaging happens,, that there is an advantage to stepping that while the RO (?) is still turning.As you are pulling the magnet away you can set it up so that you expend a constant force to do so,, and while you are expending more energy the RO will continue to speed up due to it still seeing a torque.  You have that window around the 80-90-80 where the removal cost is comparatively low so it is easy to set the rate of change up.

Good idea!... I'll keep it in mind for the new build

I wonder if the cam effect on the slide is masking the real data.

This has just been covered some posts back: http://overunity.com/16987/td-replications/msg496936/#msg496936

"the crankshaft will influence the linear scale readings of the SL input torque arm. However, since measurements are done in each directions (engage & disengage) there cannot be an advantage or gain from using a crankshaft mechanism since if it did we would of solved the energy problems some time back."

Wouldn't it be better to collect the data from the exact movement of the magnets over the entire rotation and slide distance and then determine where the best gain occures?
The cam introduces a non linear input measurement against a linear output measurement. This is problemmatic when measuring the already non linear magnetic field.

This was (in the most part) a device already built and used for something else. I modified it to do what it does. The crankshaft was already there, which I decided to use to engage and disengage the sliding magnet and added a torque arm to it.
It's good enough as a preliminary test bed.
In my next test device build (which the output will able to rotate) I won't be using a crankshaft for this action.

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #64 on: December 09, 2016, 04:17:30 PM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2016, 05:52:25 AM »
Though... I'm not saying the cam is a bad idea, in fact it adds an interesting effect in that it can leverage the higher forces when it's needed and yet during extraction at mid rotation where there is zero force, there is no effect.

I hope to be getting back to do a bit more testing myself.

Keep on it maybe something will come of all this.



Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2016, 06:16:36 AM »
Though... I'm not saying the cam is a bad idea, in fact it adds an interesting effect in that it can leverage the higher forces when it's needed and yet during extraction at mid rotation where there is zero force, there is no effect.

I hope to be getting back to do a bit more testing myself.

Keep on it maybe something will come of all this.


Thanks for clearing up what you had in mind when you wrote your post.
We'll see how it will turn out.
I would rather build another test device rather then modifying the first one to further test other possibilities. So if for some reason the 2nd device gets worse, I can always go back to the first one to try to understand what makes the difference.


Yes, I do hope something comes of it.


Luc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2016, 06:16:36 AM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2016, 03:16:57 AM »
Hi floor and everyone,


My research continues even though I haven't posted for a few weeks!


I've made an update video for all to see the tests I'm doing before the full rotary version build so I know which magnet geometry I'll be using.


Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQjp1ysvlOQ


Luc

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2016, 06:44:55 AM »
QUOTE from DrJones
"So the work = mechanical energy = Torque x Theta, not just Torque alone.
I'm concerned that Theta has been left out in the analysis so far in this thread -
 and hope that Theta will be included in the future. "END QUOTE

 Two questions

1. The conversion of torque to work is needed,
          in order
to state the actions in terms of Joules of work. Correct ? 

2. But  that conversion to joules, will not change the RATIOS
 of the measurements to each other, will it ?

                        thanks for being on board
                                   floor

Nice work Luc. I haven't really been following along closely but I just wanted to throw this in:

Let me underscore this point, and put it another way:

Luc's data seem to be showing that t2 (output torque) is greater than t1 (input torque). But torque isn't energy or work, even though they have the same units. Torque is a vector whereas energy is a scalar, and torque is the rotational analog of force. The energy (or work) in Joules associated with a torque is given by E = (torque x angular displacement), where torque is in Newton-meters and angular displacement is in radians. So a torque of 1 N-m applied for a full rotation requires an energy (work) of 2pi Joules.
 
So to answer Floor's question, yes, it is possible to have t2 > t1 but still have E2 <= E1 if the torque t2 acts over a smaller angle than t1.

I can't tell from Luc's data whether you are taking this into account.

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2016, 07:23:45 AM »

Thanks TK,

I'm glad you're looking into this.
Unfortunately (as you may know) I have no schooling, so we have a certain communication incompatibility when technical terms are used. However, I'll do what I can to provide any details you may need but keep in mind (when dealing with me) best to use plain words, no math equations or symbols.

I do appreciate your input and hopefully floor can answer your question.

Kind regards

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2016, 07:23:45 AM »
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Offline lota

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2016, 10:44:08 AM »
Hi Luc,.
you need a labour surplus. Power surplus is not so important. Enclose is the labour surplus. Only the power is not enough.
Lota

Online citfta

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2016, 02:50:00 PM »
Excellent work Luc!  I love the idea you have for how to harness the apparent extra energy.  As you demonstrated in the video there is a neutral spot just away from the magnet.  With your shielding moving into and out of that neutral spot you should be able to harness the extra force.   I appreciate the way you approach these kind of ideas.  Your methods of analyzing what is really happening are a big help to the rest of us that are trying to follow along.

Thanks,
Carroll


Online citfta

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2016, 02:55:09 PM »
For those interested here is a link about the neutral zone.  I am sure Luc already knows about this from seeing his video.

http://www.rexresearch.com/gary/gary1.htm

Carroll

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2016, 04:08:53 PM »

[/size]Hi Luc,.you need a labour surplus. Power surplus is not so important. Enclose is the labour surplus. Only the power is not enough.Lota

Hi Lota,

It is not clear what you are trying to say.
Are you saying without continuous movement or rotation there is no power?
If so, I agree.
My test device is not made to measure power at this time. Those tests will come in the future rotation device.
All I'm doing now is trying to find the most efficient magnet geometry.
Since the beginning of my tests this is the first time I'm measuring such a great improvement.

Glad you to see an excellent builder like you is looking at this.

Looking forward to see your build

Luc


Excellent work Luc!  I love the idea you have for how to harness the apparent extra energy.  As you demonstrated in the video there is a neutral spot just away from the magnet.  With your shielding moving into and out of that neutral spot you should be able to harness the extra force.   I appreciate the way you approach these kind of ideas.  Your methods of analyzing what is really happening are a big help to the rest of us that are trying to follow along.

Thanks,
Carroll

Thanks for your input and support Carroll

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline lota

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2016, 08:12:35 PM »
Hello Luc,
that is wrong. I mean: work in must be greater than work out.Not the strength. I'm building a machine. A combination of gap power and this magnetic system to a generator. I'm thinking, how do I get a continuous rotation. Gap-Power is for linear drive to the magnet.
Gap-power has a new video
http://gap-power.com/

lota

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2016, 08:12:35 PM »

 

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