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Author Topic: TD replications  (Read 31231 times)

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2016, 07:12:02 PM »
Your build successfully demonstrates that the SL becomes nearly
 free from the linear motivating forces between it and RO when
RO is at 90 from parallel to SL.

Yes, I agree!

SL needs to be very far from RO,  before RO will be nearly free
from rotation motivating forces, between it and SL.


True, the SL (sliding magnet) needs to be far away from RO (rotating magnet) to have zero influence.
The reason I cannot obtain measurements on my scale when disengaging the SL torque arm is because the arm is 12 inches long and was originally designed to measure foot pounds.
To get a scale reading on test 4 (disengage arm) I would have to reduce the SL arm length by half if not more to get the scale to register something.
I didn't feel it was necessary to modify the device at this point since I'm not seeing any advantages using the rectangular magnets over the ring magnets I originally tested and designed the device to measure.
I'm going to move on to testing other magnet configurations that produce more torque so it's best to keep thing as they are.
Hope that makes sense?

also see the attached files.
your device needs further modifications and dialing in.

As for your great diagrams, thanks for taking the time to do them ... I agree to all points and have been aware of each scenario.
On the first one, I was aware of the potential problem, so right from the start I took great care in keeping the scale angle at 90 degrees of the SL and RO arms throughout their torque travel. So there should be no errors in the scale data provided to date.

The other issue which I also knew of, is true, the crankshaft will influence the linear scale readings of the SL input torque arm. However, since measurements are done in each directions (engage & disengage) there cannot be an advantage or gain from using a crankshaft mechanism since if it did we would of solved the energy problems some time back.
With this in mind I trust the method and measurement used to be a true reflection of input force. However, I do agree by using a crankshaft on the input arm I'm not getting a linear input torque measurement, so the charts I made are affected by this fact.

Hope this answers your concerns?
Please feel free or anyone else explain if I fail to understand something or have error in my logic.

Kind regards

Luc
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 02:34:13 AM by gotoluc »

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2016, 07:12:02 PM »

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2016, 01:32:31 AM »
@gotoluc

still on the same page.

I have to ask these questions, It's just part of the process (scientific).
I sure you get it. Your work is much appreciated.

                 regards
                          floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2016, 03:17:26 AM »
@gotoluc

still on the same page.

I have to ask these questions, It's just part of the process (scientific).
I sure you get it. Your work is much appreciated.

                 regards
                          floor


Great and thanks for asking these important questions which I could of explained in my video but I try to keep them as short as possible so I stick to important details.
I do understand these questions need to be asked to ensure we're on the right track and I appreciate answering them.

I hope more experimenters like Vidar, TK and so on are going to find things we haven't considered yet.
Could it be there's nothing else?
Come on guys, you know this shouldn't be so

Luc

Offline webby1

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2016, 06:31:56 AM »

Could it be there's nothing else?
Come on guys, you know this shouldn't be so

Luc

Luc,

Have you supplied the data for both directions of travel for both arms?  if so then I have missed the Torque arm reset values.

Since your testbed is only to measure the forces and distances then the second direction of motion on the Torque arm should be considered.  Whether or not you reset that arm or something else moves it the counter force over the distance is still going to manifest.


Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2016, 07:45:06 AM »
Hi webby1


as you know I have always supplied input reset data which is deducted from the output gain.
Even with this input reset subtracted for the output gain I'm still left with a 30% torque gain.

I have come up with a rotating design which will have 2 to 4 alternating torque sequences which has no need to reset the output.
Each of these alternating output torque sequences will transfer the 30% gains in rotating flywheels.
The question now is, will this 30% output torque gain alternately transferred in each flywheel which will represents at most 40% of one revolution (per flywheel) be enough to keep each flywheel turning the 60% of the remaining revolution and may include a small counter force to go through as well?

I think it may but we never know till we try.
Most of the parts for the build will be in next week.

Stay tuned and please feel free to point out any other problem you find in the meanwhile.

Regards

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2016, 07:45:06 AM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2016, 02:14:29 PM »
Are the 28 samples of the Torque arm 14 in one direction of rotation and 14 in the other?  with the 60g being the start\end point?

My quick little throw together still has that reset cost of the Torque arm,, when I double things up so I can run it in full rotation that cost is still there in the way of reducing the output torque. (no data collected just checking my memory)

What I see from the  data you have provided is only 3 columns,, engage, cost,,, disengage, cost,, torque arm out, output,, but am missing the 4th which is torque arm reset, cost.

Offline webby1

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2016, 03:48:26 PM »
Let me put it this way.

The full cycle is,

engage,     CCW, cost 0.2778951388 J
torque arm, CCW, gain 0.7795415278 J
disengage,  CW,  cost 0.2622390746 J
torque arm, CW   cost ?????

After disengage the torque arm needs to be put back into the position for engage to happen for the start of the next cycle.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2016, 03:48:26 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2016, 03:57:57 PM »
Are the 28 samples of the Torque arm 14 in one direction of rotation and 14 in the other?  with the 60g being the start\end point?

The 28 sample test 3 output torque chart has 140 degrees of travel (not 14 inches) on the output torque arm with an average of 165 foot/grams of torque throughout that 140 degrees of travel.

What I see from the  data you have provided is only 3 columns,, engage, cost,,, disengage, cost,, torque arm out, output,, but am missing the 4th which is torque arm reset, cost.

I would have to make serious modifications to my test device to calculate the losses of the output torque arm to rotate the balance of the 220 degrees needed to bring the arm back to the reset point. So I decided to use that time to just build a device which can continue to rotate in case it does work.
My new design uses many parts I already have on hand so the cost of extra parts is just $25, so not a big loss if it doesn't work. Plus, once I have the device put together (even if it doesn't work) I'll be able to measure how much the balance of the rotation (reset) costs.

Regards

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2016, 04:29:37 PM »
Let me put it this way.

The full cycle is,

engage,     CCW, cost 0.2778951388 J
torque arm, CCW, gain 0.7795415278 J
disengage,  CW,  cost 0.2622390746 J
torque arm, CW   cost ??? ??

After disengage the torque arm needs to be put back into the position for engage to happen for the start of the next cycle.


Yes, I got it but I don't think this is a practical way of resetting it. I want the output torque to continue in the same direction and return to the beginning. Makes more sense to me to keep things in motion then to send it back in the opposite direction.

We'll see how it works out.

Luc

Offline webby1

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2016, 05:11:26 PM »
Conservation of momentum is important and should be considered.

However,, with the testbed you had you could of simply pulled the Torque arm backwards (CW) and measured the force over the same distance while the other arm was in the disengaged position.  This would then of provided the energy needed for the complete cycle regardless of how it is applied.

28 samples,, 14 samples :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2016, 05:11:26 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2016, 06:18:28 PM »
Conservation of momentum is important and should be considered.

However,, with the testbed you had you could of simply pulled the Torque arm backwards (CW) and measured the force over the same distance while the other arm was in the disengaged position.  This would then of provided the energy needed for the complete cycle regardless of how it is applied.

28 samples,, 14 samples :)


Yes I agree, I could make new torque arms which would need to be 3 inches or less to rotate 360 degrees. However, doing that causes other problems like the scale is going to have issues measuring the portion when the arm is close to hitting the aluminum slab and possibly other issues I can't immediately visualize.


Like I said, I rather not make drastic changes on this device for now. You'll have to wait a week or so to see what I can come up with on the next full rotation test device.


Luc

Offline webby1

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2016, 07:39:08 PM »
After you took your force readings did you use Mr. Hand to move the Torque arm back to the starting position?

Did you try doing that while the system was in the disengaged position?

If so,, how much did Mr. Hand do to move the arm?

See,, no changes are needed you only need to have the Torque arm start in the end position after it rotated, move the other arm into the disengaged position and then use your scale to move the Torque arm back to where it needs to be so you could measure the engage force again.



Offline Sacregraal

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2016, 08:32:08 PM »
Hello everybody ,

 This device remind me something you probably knows ...
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/2magpup.htm

It was in 1998 ...

Keep the good work Gotoluc !

SG





Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2016, 08:42:22 PM »
After you took your force readings did you use Mr. Hand to move the Torque arm back to the starting position?

Did you try doing that while the system was in the disengaged position?

If so,, how much did Mr. Hand do to move the arm?

See,, no changes are needed you only need to have the Torque arm start in the end position after it rotated, move the other arm into the disengaged position and then use your scale to move the Torque arm back to where it needs to be so you could measure the engage force again.


Okay webby1,

to please you I added the output arm reset (return) measurement data to test 4

Seems to still have an overage

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2016, 08:49:24 PM »
Hello everybody ,

 This device remind me something you probably knows ...
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/2magpup.htm

It was in 1998 ...

Keep the good work Gotoluc !

SG


Hi SG

thanks for your post.

Yes, I would think the effects are similar or related.
Please keep in mind this topic is for discussion of replications of floor's device.
floor's original topic would be the place to post this kind of information and general discussion of the effect.
Here is floor's original topic "Work from 2 magnets > 19%" which should be used for general discussions: http://overunity.com/14311/work-from-2-magnets-19-output-2/

Kind regards

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2016, 08:49:24 PM »

 

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