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Author Topic: TD replications  (Read 36120 times)

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #210 on: March 09, 2017, 04:10:57 PM »
Luc,

Yes, you are exactly right about this.  In order to achieve maximum output the input magnet has to come to a complete stop and wait for the output magnet to finish its stroke before the input magnet can move again.  And vise versa, the output magnet has to stop and wait for the input magnet to finish its stroke before it can move to achieve minimal input work.  A cam and follower(or track and follower)setup should allow us to mechanically link the input and output to create a self runner.  I will attempt to model something up to show what I am referring to. 

Regards,
Alex

Hi Alex,

User name TinselKoala made a suggestion of using a Scotch Yoke (1st pic) to convert the linear output to rotary.
The problem with it is there's no rest time. However, I thought there could be a way to modify the Scotch Yoke to create a pause time and found a variation that does exactly that (2nd pic)   Link to animation: http://www.mekanizmalar.com/uk012.html

The same site also has an Indexing mechanism (3rd pic). Link to animation: http://www.mekanizmalar.com/four-slot-two-pin-geneva-mechanism.html
This mechanism may do what we need to turn the rotor in four segments of rotation, stop, lock and pause.

As it is my magnet rotor only has 2 sets of magnets but I could add a second set without too much work and expense to advantage of the 4 position of this indexing mechanism.

I like both of these mechanism instead of gears since I could cut them out of plywood with a router.

Food for thought

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #210 on: March 09, 2017, 04:10:57 PM »

Offline citfta

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #211 on: March 09, 2017, 04:49:14 PM »
Hi Luc,

Great videos as always from you.  I do have a suggestion.  The Geneva drive is an ingenious device but needs to be built with very close tolerances to work properly without it wanting to hang up.  We had some CNC machines where I worked that had them as part of the automatic tool change mechanism.  I am afraid it might not work well made from plywood.  I think the modified scotch yoke would be much easier to get working properly.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #212 on: March 09, 2017, 04:56:39 PM »
Thanks Carroll for your input.

If the suggestion was to be used I was thinking of a very large scale like 20+ inches in order to allow for toleration differences.
Do you still think it's not possible?

Regards

Luc

Offline citfta

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #213 on: March 09, 2017, 05:59:31 PM »
Making it that large will certainly help with the precision problem.  Most of the ones on the machines I worked on were about 15 to 20 inches in diameter as I recall.  Of course they were used to move some pretty heavy tool change equipment so that made them more susceptible to problems.  With your skill at building I think you can probably make a 20 inch one work.  I would like to see one made from plywood.  That would be impressive.  They are pretty interesting to watch them work.  Once they change to the next position they hold that position very accurately until told to change again.

Respectfully,
Carroll


Offline Cairun

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #214 on: March 09, 2017, 07:10:03 PM »
Hi Alex,

User name TinselKoala made a suggestion of using a Scotch Yoke (1st pic) to convert the linear output to rotary.
The problem with it is there's no rest time. However, I thought there could be a way to modify the Scotch Yoke to create a pause time and found a variation that does exactly that (2nd pic)   Link to animation: http://www.mekanizmalar.com/uk012.html

The same site also has an Indexing mechanism (3rd pic). Link to animation: http://www.mekanizmalar.com/four-slot-two-pin-geneva-mechanism.html
This mechanism may do what we need to turn the rotor in four segments of rotation, stop, lock and pause.

As it is my magnet rotor only has 2 sets of magnets but I could add a second set without too much work and expense to advantage of the 4 position of this indexing mechanism.

I like both of these mechanism instead of gears since I could cut them out of plywood with a router.

Food for thought

Luc


Luc,


I've modeled a track follower setup which captures the stop and go motion.  This is a linear reciprocating design with both input and output magnets moving linearly.
This video shows a the basic idea of a track follower setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsqyiLaUw5g&feature=youtu.be
This setup does not take advantage of the self reset(because I just wanted to model quickly and show the basic idea), however, a self reset design can be achieved.
I will have to think a little more about how to mechanically loop your latest build/setup.


Regards,
Alex


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #214 on: March 09, 2017, 07:10:03 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #215 on: March 09, 2017, 08:05:40 PM »
That mechanism looks great Alex ;)

This kind of cam follower design I can make with a router. So that's the best to start with.

Thanks for taking the time to help!

Luc

Offline Cairun

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #216 on: March 10, 2017, 01:55:25 AM »
That mechanism looks great Alex ;)

This kind of cam follower design I can make with a router. So that's the best to start with.

Thanks for taking the time to help!

Luc


Luc,


Thank you, I am glad I can help!  The geometry of the track/cam may need some tweaking to enable a smoother motion, but this is a minor problem.
The one thing that bothers me is that I am not sure of the efficiency of a cam and follower, more specifically the one that I've shown in the video.
If anyone is familiar with the efficiency of a cam and follower, please chime in.


If you print the cam/track out and glue the print onto a piece of plywood and then you can cut the track with a router.
With your workmanship, I am sure you can make it ;) .
But, if accuracy becomes too much of a problem, I can make the cam/track with my CNC mill after I get back from my travels. 
However, my CNC mill is quite small and can only make small parts.  But I can always break larger components into smaller parts and assemble into a larger component later on.
Let me know how you would like to proceed.  I can design a cam/track with info provided by you and send you the drawing so you can attempt to make it, or I can make it when I get back.


Regards,
Alex






Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #216 on: March 10, 2017, 01:55:25 AM »
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Offline Cairun

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #217 on: March 10, 2017, 02:12:43 AM »

The proposed operation is this (referring to the earlier version where force measurements were done):

1) The stroke length of the slider was already about 10 times shorter than the travel length of the rotor magnet. If you allow the slider to deliver its work even faster say 10 times faster than the speed of the rotor magnet, then the freely rotating rotor will travel only about 1/100th distance of the stroke during the movement of the slider. This is negligible, and it nicely approximates a perfectly synchronized rotor-slider. It is also possible that a slower movement of the slider would be also satisfactory. Like for example just let both slider and rotor move at the same speed. In that case the rotor would travel 1/10th of the rotor’s stroke distance while the slider completes its stroke. One can calculate how much efficiency gets lost this way and find an optimum, a compromise between practicality and ideal condition.

2) The synchronous operation can be guaranteed by using a toque brake on the shaft, and keeping the RPM of the rotor at sufficiently low level, so that the slider should be able to complete the stroke before the rotor travels a significant distance away from the synchronous position. The torque developed on the brake can be measured, just like the RPM, from which one can calculate the output power.

3) A large enough flywheel will absorb and smooth out any jerky movement, and contribute to the slow synchronous operation.

4) A timing latch could be utilized (similar to the one used in old pendulum clocks) to time and synchronize the release of the slider magnets at the right moments, only slightly before the rotor completely covers the slider magnet.

5) The linear bidirectional movement of the slider can be rectified and converted to unidirectional rotation using two bicycle hubs (or similar ratchet mechanism), one on each side. One on the left side drives the flywheel while moving forward, and the other on the right side drives it while moving backwards.

6) this way a continuous rotatory movement can be sustained, with an easy and handy way of measuring the output power. No need for accelerating and decelerating the output wheel, or stroke. But it would make sense to start designing such a machine only after precise reliable measurements prove the existence of at least 20-30% of excess energy. Anything below that would make it challenging to overcome the losses, and it would have no practical significance anyway.


Nonlinear,


Thank you for you detailed input.  Your proposed design is a good way to to mechanically loop Luc's design.
However, I think a cam and follower setup(like it is shown in this video[size=78%]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsqyiLaUw5g[/size]) is simpler and better captures the motion of the operational sequence.
Perhaps, I place too much emphasis on maximizing output and minimizing input, but every little bit helps ;) .


Regards,
Alex


Offline Drak

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #218 on: March 10, 2017, 04:57:37 AM »
Hi gotoluc,

I think it would probably be best if you did not lock the output to the input. I would make sure that your output is able to ADD to the input instead of having to wait on the input before it can move. As long as they are in resonance with each other (the timing is correct) it should work. You would need a mechanical capacitor to store the energy but still have the rotor turn at the same speed (the hard part). You wouldn't be able to have it going faster then the slider can handle or it will go out of resonance like in your video when you have to adjust the speed to get the slider working at full swings. If you mechanically lock the output to the input it will be like trying observe an electron without disturbing it. They both need to move freely on their own.

Just my thoughts. Great builds I love your work!

drak

Offline Nonlinear

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #219 on: March 10, 2017, 02:16:34 PM »
Thank you for you detailed input.  Your proposed design is a good way to to mechanically loop Luc's design.
However, I think a cam and follower setup(like it is shown in this video[size=78%]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsqyiLaUw5g[/size]) is simpler and better captures the motion of the operational sequence.
Perhaps, I place too much emphasis on maximizing output and minimizing input, but every little bit helps ;) .

Alex,
Your cam follower design is good; it will allow the mechanism to rotate at higher speeds as well, while keeping the synchronous movement. Regarding efficiency though, I am not convinced that the cam follower would waste less energy than what I have proposed, because the roller bearings are wasting energy along the whole path of the tracks, which can get excessive at high speeds of rotation. But if there would be really 60% excess energy, then both designs should be able to at least self-run.

The problem is not with the feedback mechanism, but rather with the claim of excess energy. Despite my original reluctance, I have forced myself to read through the other related threads of Floor, and now my suspicions of deliberate deception have been confirmed. There is definitely no excess energy in such purely permanent magnet arrangements, just as theory predicts. Lumen’s improved measurements have proven this already (in the now closed thread) here:
http://overunity.com/14311/work-from-2-magnets-19-output-2/msg498010/#msg498010
and Stefan has closed the thread as well, because the subject is closed (no overunity). Despite the correct disproof, the agenda to mislead and deceive is still in full swing with a show of nice looking contraptions and fake (or grossly erroneous) measurement results.

Another example of disproof is webby1’s attempt to convince Luc that he has to measure the 4th part of the cycle as well, in one of his earlier devices. He finally succeeded in this effort in post:
http://overunity.com/16987/td-replications/msg496971/#msg496971
and Luc has reluctantly provided the data in:
http://overunity.com/16987/td-replications/msg496974/#msg496974
When this 4th part of the cycle was taken into account, then Luc’s averaging calculations showed only 10% of excess work, which can be very easily attributed to the other bad measurement practices mentioned earlier.

Without free energy being created, the whole show of nice devices and designs are nothing more than the shiny paint on the car from which the engine is missing (useless).

As an illustration of this absurdity there is a famous example called overbalanced wheel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
The gravitational field is conservative just like a spring. You can not get more continuous work from gravity than what you have to invest, and this is completely independent of the path of movement. One can not get more work out from a spring than what one has to invest while pressing it together. It doesn’t matter whether the spring is linear or nonlinear, it is still conservative and it is very easy to prove this.

The magnetic field can be imagined as a net made of millions of tiny springs that react only with magnetic materials. It does not matter how complex net you form from such springs, they still remain conservative. The magnetic field is conservative, and Lumen has already proven this, but some people prefer to ignore this fact.

I know that it is possible to create overunity generators, for example cold fusion is one of them. Accurate measurements performed by qualified physicists prove that. But purely permanent magnet arrangements will definitely not produce overunity. Therefore I will not post on this subject for a while, because now my interest is only in observing the psychology of deception. I will just sit back and observe how far a hoax can go before some readers get fed up with the nonsense and start kicking some butts. When the whole thing blows over, then I will come back to say: “I told you so… didn’t I”  ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #219 on: March 10, 2017, 02:16:34 PM »
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Offline citfta

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #220 on: March 10, 2017, 02:47:34 PM »
Nonlinear,

You are way out of line.  I don't know Floor that well but I have known Luc for years.  To accuse him of deliberately misleading is very wrong.  Luc is a dedicated researcher looking for the truth.  He has tried to follow any suggestions from anyone to make his measurements more accurate.  He has not claimed OU anywhere that I am aware of.  He only presents the results of his tests.  When he sees results that look promising he will pursue those results until he is convinced they do not lead to an OU device.  That is research, not deception.  You owe him an apology for suggesting he is deliberately misleading others.

As far as OU goes, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.  I worked in electronics for over 50 years and have seen several times things that left me scratching my head.  So I do believe OU MAY be possible.  I am not convinced it IS possible nor am I convinced it is NOT possible.  So I continue with my own research and follow the research of others like Luc that are willing to share their efforts.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Offline Cairun

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #221 on: March 10, 2017, 02:49:40 PM »
Nonlinear,


Luc's current design is different than the original TD setup.  I will perform measurements to help verify Luc's measurement results after I get back from my business travels(hopefully I will be back in about 3 weeks). 


Regards,
Alex


Offline webby1

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #222 on: March 10, 2017, 03:34:41 PM »
I do not see any deliberate deception, rather what I see is a lack of experience.

This very lack of experience can allow for tests to be run that others, with more experience, may consider useless or absurd. 

These tests may have not been tried before because to those with more experience they seem to be "useless".

In time I think that Luc will think about having the output motor spin in only one direction and allow that motor to freewheel and add a large flywheel to the motor shaft,, after all, that rate of acceleration coming from the slider mechanism is fairly impressive and spring stops could conserve more of that mass in motion energy if it is not stored within the flywheel,, and things will go from there :)

Will it work?? you do not know until you do.

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #223 on: March 10, 2017, 04:13:30 PM »
Well Nonlinear

There you have it, you're confused and creating confusion. It's obviously you haven't read all the topics and posts to come to the conclusions in your last post.

What I'm working on at present is different then what Floor originally proposed and I first tested.

Here is a link to my last report (posted Feb. 8th 2017) on my presision tests done to Floor's twist drive concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMqBISjwieY

And here is my new device concept which was posted on the same day introducing my own design which I named "Mechanical Magnet Torque Amplifier":  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUlDMY1iE5A
This is the design that is being discuss and tested at this time and is not related to the old information in your post above.

Your error may cause others to question your integrity and reasons for being here.

We will see

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #224 on: March 10, 2017, 04:40:05 PM »
@ All readers

I threw up..... a new video.
It shows an effective magnet shield in action.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5eg7kk_magnetshield-1_tech

As far as I'm concerned, this is all open source and public domain.
All in common...that's the only real over unity there is. 
              Thanks for every thing Luc.
                 Peace... Out
                     floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #224 on: March 10, 2017, 04:40:05 PM »

 

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