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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Floor on November 01, 2016, 02:11:43 AM

Title: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 01, 2016, 02:11:43 AM
Magnets, motion and measurement

This topic is being created for discussion of the conventional scientific
descriptions of

energy
work
force
and power
 
and the methods of their measurement.

ESPECIALLY AS THEY APPLY TO MAGNETIC INTERACTIONS.
................................
It is also for discussion of both the conventional descriptions of magnet interactions
and
new theories observations and so on.

                       floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 05, 2016, 09:29:46 PM
Please find the attached document "MeasPhy(10-N).pdf"

It is still a work in progress.

Corrections are welcome / needed.

Please do not redistribute it.

                  cheers
                    floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 26, 2016, 06:52:05 PM
Please find the attached,  next version of the Magnets Motion and Measurement document
"MeasPhy(10-P).pdf".

                  best wishes
                    floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 27, 2016, 05:16:07 PM
A special thank you to those who have contributed to / offered corrections to
the project.
                        best wishes
                                floor

Please find the attached file "MeasPhy(10-Q). pdf
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 01, 2016, 09:04:30 PM
@ aal readers

Again

 thank you to those who have contributed to / offered corrections to
the project. I think It's starting to get to a well polished state.

Please discard previous versions and find the attached file "MeasPhy(10-S). pdf
                       
                                floor

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 09, 2017, 07:04:53 PM
@norman6538

I don't think of "Near Strong / Far weak" as being exceptionally
problematic.

 See the attached file below
 
                  regards
                    floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: norman6538 on January 09, 2017, 08:21:18 PM
@norman6538

I don't think of "Near Strong / Far weak" as being exceptionally
problematic.

 See the attached file below
 
                  regards
                    floor




That would be a great way to compensate mechanically. But think of it this way.
When close and like poles first there is a strong push and then a weak push. And
when far and opposite poles there is a weak pull so little work can even get started.

Norman
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 11, 2017, 02:58:54 AM
@Norman6538

quote
"when far and opposite poles there is a weak pull so little work can even get started" end quote

In the TD (twist drive) pass through 5 version,  it doesn't work that way.

                   floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 11, 2017, 06:16:49 AM
When you think of near and far, weak and strong
Many combinations can be made magnetically
Approx as many as there are atomic configurations
Perhaps more


A guy came out with a "magnetic tractor beam"
Uses weak (close) forces in combination with
Strong (far) forces
As the interacting field approaches the effective field
of the stronger magnet, the strong force takes over.


The new 3-d printed complex magnets can create a near
infinite combination force domains to customize your fields.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 12, 2017, 11:37:26 PM
Here's a video I found if the tractor beam.
There's literally a near infinite things you can do with this
From the "thors hammer" you can't pick up, to precision
controlled actuators.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hUtnMh0EBBc (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hUtnMh0EBBc)

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on February 09, 2017, 02:05:24 AM
Re Gotoluc measurements:
work = force x distance
I would like  Gotoluc to measure force for each segment of his input
and output dials, and multiply this force by the length of the segment.
Then add them together for the input and output.
This will give us input and output work.
The more segments he has, the more precise would be the calculations.
In fact, he already has everything in place, just needs to do the above
operations.
Regards
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 09, 2017, 08:01:34 PM
Useful topic, pitty I surf this page without a pdf reader, so I gotta frequently transfer stuff to my old win rig and read it there. A Gif or Png here and there would however not hurt me ^^


When it comes to magnetism, you have to forget all the theories about it, look at your own observations and then start thinking logically.


For instance, the fact that unequal poles link and jetstream in polar axis direction, while equal poles build a barrier at the equilibrium, that is flat like when you press your nose against a glass window and therefor 90 deg "off", compared to the jetstream of eg. N-S, that alone is remarkable.


Theoreticly, you could place two magnets N vs N, a half inch apart, Now take third magnet, position its South between them, right in the middle, like the columbus egg, attracted by both sides the same. By wiggling the third magnet side to side, you maybe can alternate the competitive fluxpaths (3 identic magnets) with little force. Just an idea that went trough my head atm, didn't mean to become off topic.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 11, 2017, 01:31:32 AM
@dieter

              I read your above post some days ago, just didn't get around to
responding.

You are not off topic at all in your post.

This topic is for basic physics (mechanics) discussion, especially as it
applies to magnets....  measuring and understanding .... force, displacement,
work and energy.   Your comments were appreciated.

  regards
        floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2017, 02:44:01 AM
Thanks, Floor!


In one of my brighter moments I recently had a sudden vision the quantummechanical characteristics in magnetism and electricity, that led to the formulation of my theory, which goes beyond currently accepted teachings. I posted it already in an other thread, but would like to repost it here, since it fits the topic so well.


The ambient magnetic field of random equilibrium.
By Dieter Marfurt


Electrons can only move in the conductor if they align their natural spin to the shortest way between the potential diffrence. Thus their normally random spins accummulate. Their spin however produces a gyroscopic force yet to be named, that forces magnetic domains in the molecural/cristalline lattice  into a 90 degree angle. Once the domains are aligned, the "magnetism" will use these domeins like a highway. The Domains are not the magnet, they only rectify the magnetic force that is everywhere, but in a random xyz equilibrium.some materials can keep the domain orientation even after the current stops flowing, and become permanent magnets.[/size]On the other hand, exposing randomly spinning electrons to a magnetic field forces them to spin like a screw until they are out of reach. As free electrons are not really free, but elasticly connected to their original location, they will spin back when the magnetic field is decreasing. Electrons can be rilped off of that elastic connection, causing charge/electron holes, as in semiconductors, at the cost of high energy losses, which is why Tesla's AC won over Edisons DC, because in DC the losses increase tremendously over distance, where in AC electrons rarely lose their connection to their beloved equilubrium condo and basicly just bounce back and forth at a "rubberband".[/size]
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2017, 03:51:59 AM
Now, how do we make magnets?


By electricity, maybe like my theory says.


Secondly, we can permanently magnetize hard steel with a permanent magnet. So a magnet can make an other magnet. Does the first magnet getting used up or weaker? No, and that is the beauty of it! Forcing magnetic domains in a iron cristal lattice into alignement doesn't require energy in the conventional sense! This can only mean that the ambient magnetic equilibrium is excess energy by its own! Capable of creating further magnets, within the regime of known permeability.


If we can magnetize without energy loss then there is a high probability that we can also demagnetize without energy loss.


So these are the two commonly known methods of making permanent magnets. But there are more ways!


Take a brandnew hammer and a brandnew hardened steel screwdriver. Hold the screwdriver towards a stone ground and hit the hammer heavily on the Screwdriver's handle. You'll notice the tip will become permanently magnetized, so you can lift a nail with it. Due to gravity shockwaves!


You see we got already 3 ways to make a magnetic field and or a PM.


I think it is only a matter of decades, until we discover further ways to achieve this goal, more elegant ways, in which the energy costs are in now way related to the field strength achieved.


Some will argue that it is not true that we do not lose energy when magnetizing by a DC current. But the losses are in fact only the product of the secondary magnetic field, that, by its own, was created without energy as well, it just happens that the secondary field in conventional induction causes the electrons in the conductor to spin the opposite way, thus braking the rotation caused by the potential diffrence and effectively increase the DC rwsistance in the conductor.


Making magnets with DC currents is messy business, like slicing butter with a chainsaw.


So it may be a very important field in science to find new ways of magnetization.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 11, 2017, 04:31:24 AM
@deiter

        I think maybe your theory has some valid elements to it. I don't
have a better one.

      but in contemplating the magnetic field I come up with this model.

A simple mobius strip has only a single 1/2 twist in the ribbon....but also a mobius strip
can have many twists rather than just a 1/2 twist.   

The edges of a twisted ribbon have the form of a double helix.

The forces (torque and tension) are said to tend to seek their most relaxed state at all
points.  but this does not result in an even distribution of twist along the length of the ribbon
within a mobius strip.
             but rather
In the "natural form" of a multi twist mobius strip we find that most of the tight twists lie together...
while also an other section of the strip which has very little twist lies all together (no tight twisting spots to break it up).

              bloch wall
If we look at the field of a permanent magnet, and at an individual  line of force (an idealized
simplification) as having the form of a mobius strip  ...  and we place lines between the two helixs
(like the ladder rung like connections in the DNA molecule)  .... and we assign a N/S magnetic
polarity to these "rungs" like pole next to like pole ...  (all N poles connected to one helix
and all south poles connected to the other helix).  Note... that this does not necessarily result in
like pole in close proximity to each other.  Also consider that there would be other twisted ribbons
all  around in the over all field.

Where the double helix is tightly wound we will find an absence of NET magnetic force, because
N and S forces are in a near balance in any direction from we approach the double helix...except
as we approach it nearly straight on to the end of that double helix.

We have next, then to look at what Theoria Apophasis has termed the dielectric inertial plane
/counter part to the bloch wall.... in the part of the magnetic field which is exterior to the
[permanent magnet.  Lowest density in the field ... largest area.

Also we must again consider multiple force lines ... a gentle spiraling and... spiral ribbon layers
within layers  (shells) .... and also more than one ribbon sharing a single "shell".

I don't know if this model of mine gives you any ideas,  but I hope it may/

        floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2017, 04:36:22 AM
As a Sidenote: I just said the seconary field of induction increases the DC resistance in the conductor and that causes energy loss... not very logical at first glance, right? But if you force the device to maintain the current flow at the same level, regardless of higher resistance, then it makes sense and we understand how energy gets lost.


Anyhow, in any AC operation you also have to deal with the phase shift, but that may lead us to far away from the topic.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2017, 05:22:55 AM
Very interesting, Floor. Very close to my own interpretation. And good you are focussing on the magnet side, I tend to drift into electrical stuff.


At the nexus of my magnet force rectifier, the bloch wall, may be a focus in which as you said, polarities are so dense that due to molecular scale forces practically equalize.


But is there a particle, the magnetron? That is ejected out of the pole with a slingshot accelleration? But why does it return to the other pole? May there be a particle-pair fission and entanglement? One particle is shot out one side, the other one the other side? As they lose monentum, and repelled by like particles around them, the build the mushroom field, with one goal: to reunite with their entangled brother particle? Maybe.


If there is a helix pattern in the magnetic mechanics, then it must cause a gyroscopic force. That would explain, why electrons interlock with magnetic fields and are forced into rotation... at 90 degree angle...! Wow Floor I think you just put in the missing puzzle piece in my theory. Thanks! We should share that freakin nobel prize I'd say :)
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2017, 05:55:04 AM
Hmm, there is also a further, easier explanation (sorry, on electrons again):


Electrons have a south and north pole, like our planet. Not surprising then, when they align to a magnetic field. But, according to my theory, due to their natural spinning, I call it screw-like, you'd probably say helix-guided, they then propagate in the conductor.


But ok, back to magnetism.


I think the perfect magnetic gate were, if you could sneak your rotor magnet into the bloch wall of the stator magnet and then give it a slight push so it will be repelled. But would that be possible? Just, very basic mechanical challenge? I lean towards Yes. Maybe we could use quantum tunnelling to transfer electrons into the bloch wall, would that be cool? Ok, we'd need the CERN to do the first testrun and maybe a Megawatt. But particle tunneling is real. We can Scotty-like beam particles, jumping like one inch in zero time. And the magnet would shoot out the electron or other particle.


Well just one way to sneak into the bloch wall.


A practical application of the theories is always the thing that's driving me.

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 11, 2017, 07:52:55 AM
The DNA helix is a good analogy. If this twisted helix
Leaves one pole and twists around towards the other
The chain of N moving one way, the chain of S moving
The other way
But lots and lots of these that accumulate to the large field
They lock together when you have multiple magnets
And you can bend them, build up pressure, and let them
Explode.
You can even stick the magnets together in a certain way
So they are always under pressure. And adding just one
More magnet, say from a passing rotor or cart,
Can cause them to explode. Magnetically speaking.

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 12, 2017, 04:39:33 PM
Interesting position as well, Smoky.


About measurements, one common measurement error is this: people fully charge a Cap, then use it for a brief moment, then calculate the energy consumed by looking at the caps voltage drop, then they say like:
only 0.1V drop from 100.1 to 100.0 vdc, that equals (assuming a 1 farad cap):
1 * ((0.1 * 0.1) /2) = 0.005 joule
But that is totally wrong. What you need to calculate is:
(1*((100.1*100.1)/2)) - (1*((100*100)/2)), equals 10.005 joule.
It makes a huge diffrence whether you drop 0.1v at 100v, or at 1v.
I add this here because this cap measurement method is often used in conjunction with magnetic devices.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 13, 2017, 09:26:06 PM
Hi smOKY 2

QUOTE FROM smOKy 2

"The DNA helix is a good analogy. If this twisted helix
Leaves one pole and twists around towards the other
The chain of N moving one way, the chain of S moving
The other way  "  END QUOTE

Leaves the interior of the permanent magnet via the poles ....
                    yes

Qutoe
"But lots and lots of these that accumulate to the large field"
END QUOTE

           yes and probably in a very structured or organized manner

QUOITE
"They lock together when you have multiple magnets"
END QUOTE
                  yes two or more magnets
QUOTE
"And you can bend them, build up pressure, '
END QUOTE
                             yes we can bend the "lines of flux"
                             and also change their density.

QUOTE
"and let them Explode."
END QUOTE
               don't know what this means


QUOTE
"You can even stick the magnets together in a certain way
So they are always under pressure. And adding just one
More magnet, say from a passing rotor or cart,
Can cause them to explode. Magnetically speaking."
END QUOTE
                 I don't understand what you are saying here either.

                 floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 13, 2017, 09:29:57 PM
@dieter


  no worries... your not off topic.... especially when you return to how
                   it relates to the magnetic component
         
  Nice
           thanks and appreciateion for your perspectives.
             
 floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 15, 2017, 04:31:26 AM
Thanks, Floor.


Another interesting observation I wasn't aware of, that I saw in a FEMM simulation, is, assuming FEMM is correct, when you place an iron shield in front of your magnet, the maximum field density that was at the Bloch wall has moved right into the iron bar, which is practicly stealing the field density from the PM.


If you place two PMs N vs S with a gap and in rhe gap the end of an iron bar, in 90deg angle, that' a bit thinner than the gap, both PMs will try to link with the ironbar, but one will eventually win. Depending on which one, the polarity of the iron bar will be swapped. And according to FEMM the iron bar will hold the highest field density.


Now consider we have a setup in which the gap is only 1mm... what enormous field density we have in there, and by moving the iron bar, or rigid sheet by only 0.5mm, well have complete polarity reversal in the iron bar. Although this requires the iron bar contact area to be saturated by one magnet.


Hmm, I got to test this in FEMM.


Yet another interesting observation: two PMs, N vs S, can use the Bloch wall of a third magnet to link their flux, in 90deg to the third magnet. I have no idea why the magnetic domains at the Bloch wall don't react to these forces.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 16, 2017, 09:54:09 PM
@Floor


Ok so you take a large magnet and a 2 small magnets
Put a small one forced opposite to the large
And glue or tape it there so it doesn't fly away
You may have to leave a little gap to get it just right
Depends on the two different magnets
Now when you approach this arrangement with the
Remaining small magnet, there are 3 field encounters
1) the small magnets field
2) the large magnets field
3) the cumulative field formed by the two occupying the
     same space.


By changing their physical orientation you can control how
The two individual fields affect the cumulative field, in such a
way that the warping caused by the approaching small magnet
Causes the cumulative field to change drastically.
This drastic change is like a spring releasing, because the two
magnets (or more) are forced to sit in a way that the cumulative
field is right on the edge of the drastic change. Just a tiny bit more
forcing and the cumulative field reorients itself.


By "explosion" I analogize the effect of a magnetic field change to
the order of tens to thousands of times.
Much more than the required forcing that caused the change.
When the smaller magnet is pulled out (or allowed to repel out)
The cumulative field reverts back to its "springy" state before you
caused the change.


Magnetically speaking, it explodes. (and resets)
The cumulative field will always morph to the gradient
of least resistance.

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 16, 2017, 10:00:06 PM
@Dieter


If by "Bloch wall" you mean the neutral line in the 'center'
The dielectric inertial plane contains no net magnetism.
Although all of the flux passes through this region,
the very center has a uniform distribution of density
Thus there are (within a range or band) an equal and opposite
N & S within this region that cancel each other out completely



Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 17, 2017, 12:10:46 AM
@smOKY2

Thanks much for the expantion.
          floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 17, 2017, 01:56:52 AM
@ Smoky,


what I don't get is why does no flux linking occur?
Normally you would expect any field lines to bend and link to a close unlike pole, so one part of the Bloch wall inhabitants should bend to one external pole, the other part to the other pole.


Intrestingly, that may happen nevertheless, because when you do this with only one expernal magnet then aztracting and repelling forces do cancel eachother out, agreed. But if you use two, eg. a North to the right end of the Bloch wall and a South to the left side, then they stick at the bloch wall.


Even tho, FEMM shows fieldlines, passing right along the bloch wall, It seems more likely to me that the bloch wall itself links to the two poles.
I've noticed these two magnets stick at a lightly offset position, one a bit closer to PM1's North, the other one closer to south.


Here I have some interesting simulation shots that show how you can focus a magnetic field and achieve very high fieldstrengths, simply with an iron core of the right shape.


Notice ontop of this Neo magnet sticks a cylinder of Supermalloy, or pure iron of the same diameter. It's fieldstrength at any place barely reaches that of the permanent magnet, about 1 Tesla.


In the second shot there is a thin iron bar, close to the other end of the PM. Notice the fieldstrength of this bar, that reaches 2 Tesla.


And in the third shot there is still about 1.7 Tesla, despite a rather large airgap.


So shape does matter extremly.

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 17, 2017, 07:59:43 PM
@dieter / SmOKY2

On page five of topic below is an    interesting / easy    Mobius strip experiment / explanation.

http://overunity.com/13783/proof-of-overunity-from-magnets-fixture-no-negative-work-aspect-lafonte/msg370730/#msg370730

Addendum.. 

                       ? : If it is neutral to other field lines, why doesn't a given field line just drift away into space ?
          Answer ? : Because it is not neutral... to the randomly polarized atoms in the magnet ?

         field actions (within / around) are not simply between like and un like poles...there is a third element involved
        (other than the electric)    It is the FIELD of the randomly polarized.

       ? If there are interactions between the either / vacuum and organized energy / matter...I seems to me
       that the INTERFACE between these two kinds of (energy ?) occurs through random ness in the
       ordinary / perceivable energy (our world).

I  look at it like this..... that magnet "shape" and the direction of approach between two magnets are both
"a kind of shape".     The one is fixed a constant (for the now)..... the other is a variable.
............................................................................................
I / we.... all  use the language but...

While I consider field lines a valuable and useful convention.... also I don't think of them as real world.....
Like this....

 A peice of lumber that is 2 inches by 4 inches by 48 inches long ....is not actually composed of
some things which we call inches and feet. 

Similarly...I don't hink of that region we call a magnetic field as being a thing, but rather it is a mathematical
construct....  A description of a three dimensional volume in space.. in which events can be measured / compared
in relation to their placement within this drawn 3 dimensions "field".

                              regards
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 17, 2017, 08:16:58 PM
Of course I totally agree, "field lines" are just useful to display density and orientation within this magnetic shape of gradient vector force. They are simple short terms and I guess you understand what I mean by them.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 17, 2017, 09:17:18 PM
Kind of relating back your DNA analogy
I look at the "field lines" as being a manifestation
Or reflection of individual magnetic field paths
From pole to pole, consisting of a helical construct
Containing oppositely transitioning N and S pole
Flux packets.


Which are, yes, ultimately propagated by individual atoms.
You bring up an interesting point with the 'randomness'
It is important to realize that, as best we try, not all of the
Atoms in our magnetic material are "magnetized" or polarized
In the desired vector. But rather a majority, that causes the
Cumulative field to orient in the desired vector.
By applying magnetic pressure to points along the field
Like from another magnet- you can change the shape of the field
Which is observable as a change in the pathways visible in
the field lines.


Some magneticians use the sense of touch to feel the shape and
intensity. Some use magnetic viewers of various sorts.
The FEMM simulation software generally mimics these patterns.
There is only one person on earth who can really see the field.
He tries to teach us as best he can, the FEMM people could
learn a thing or two about how to upgrade their software.


Until then, "lines" give us a pretty good view of the macro events.
So it usually works.

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 18, 2017, 01:05:15 AM
@smOkY2  / Dieter

     I try to make sure that I restate this every now and again...

I am not an expert in magnets nor physics.

     But learning more all the time.
.........................................................
 I have no objections to using a language in common, just don't
want to get trapped in the words is all.

                        regards
                          regards
                            floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 18, 2017, 06:23:03 AM
In the essential sense, they are lines. But braided/twisted/helix lines
And very very tiny. We cannot really see them. We see an effect caused by
A multitude of them.  The more complex our viewers, the more "lines" we see.
When we get really good at making viewers, we start to see the real shape and form
that these lines make as they wrap through the field.


https://youtu.be/c-CbKHbH5QA (https://youtu.be/c-CbKHbH5QA)


And this
https://youtu.be/s9AU6IQE1uk (https://youtu.be/s9AU6IQE1uk)
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 19, 2017, 04:53:48 PM

The word flux has as one of its meanings ...................."change".
In that context it wouldn't make sense to say ..........."a change in the flux"
                                     or                    ........................"a change in the change" either.

In the context ... directly of magnet fields... there are in general .... several kinds of usage for
the word line. 

1. a line drawn to show a vector direction

2. the number of lines ASSIGNED to specific field density.  (arbitrarily agreed to)
                   (these are the standard which we call "field lines)

3. lines seen when iron filings are sprinkled over a paper covering a magnet.
                   (caused by the polar alignments of the iron pieces their selves) 
                                          (these are not the "field lines" per say)

4. A single line supposed (at least by me), to be helical..... and yes very very tiny indeed.
composed of (some how linked... photons / particle waves)
         (The photon is held by scientific convention to be the intermediary of all electromagnetic events)

5. These helical, photonic, lines, twisting together and taking the form of a....
larger though over all.... less tightly coiled helix ...

These can be can be large enough...to be visible to the human eye (but are not actually visible).

6. regions of low density lines (linear holes) (projections the effects of / from the Bloch walls....not real lines per say)
between the high density compoundly helical photonic structures (lines)

Groups of two kinds of lines (5 and 6)  forming both, higher density (lines) and lower density (holes)
regions in the field...and their effect upon light....is seen in the devices presented in Tehoria's demonstrations.
....................................................
A demonstration of a compoundly helical form.

1. Clamp one end a long (round in cross section) shoe string into a bench vice.
2. twist /spin the free end of the string, by rolling it between the palms of your hands.
The string will (after some amount of twisting) begin to "kink".
3. Do not allow the string to unwind.  Hold the free end between two fingers.
4. With your free hand, pinch /grasp the twisted string between to fingers, (at its middle)
then bring  the free end of the string over to its other end (which is clamped in the vice).
5. Release the middle of the string from your grasp (only the middle).
6 Prevent the ends from untwisting as you remove the one end from the bench vice.

You should now have two helices twisted together.

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 19, 2017, 10:02:28 PM
@Dieter
................................
Inside the body of an iron magnet there are three, below, considered, regions.

1. the magnetic polar randomly aligned iron atoms.
2. the magnetic polar aligned iron atoms (magnetic domains)
3. the block walls

The Bloch walls interact with both the random polar elements, and the polar atomic
/ domain elements, but differently with each.

The Bloch wall shields one domain from another in a manner similar to the actions
in pass through TD designs.   Not as a kind of shielding which would simply block the
passage of a magnetic energy flow.  Rather the Bloch wall has polarities distributed
around its circumference, which by the closeness of their proximity to one another,
tend to simultaneously present both attractions and repulsion in near balance) to either
a north or a south pole that approaches the Bloch wall.


The Bloch wall is both the atoms in it and the field it presents.

The polar arrangement of the atoms in a Bloch wall is a helix.

The field around its circumference would not be helical, but more like
a cross hatch (a tick tac toe) complex.

The Bloch walls exist only on the inside of the magnet, their effects extend to out side of
the magnet.

The Bloch wall has no photon "emissions" from its ends which would leave the magnet.
But the wall may effect the external magnetic field  (creates a hole in it).

(

Although I previously stated (in error) that the ends of a Bloch wall (both a N and S
pole is there) reacts magnetically with the exterior elements.  It should have said.... the end is
self sealing / forms a closed magnetic loop.

 Rather it is the helical lines in the field from the domains which readily interact at their ends.
.............................................................
The atom in domains are polar aligned end to end N/S N/S N/S........
The domains are also polar aligned end to end N/S N/S N/S........

The photon "emissions" from domains / magnets, which cause magnetic attraction / repulsion force
are helical.
......................................
All three regions have electric charge interactions (ionic or covalant bonding)
the "chemical". 

And again ...............this is just my take on a model.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 19, 2017, 10:21:45 PM
@Dieter

In regar to compression within the magnetic field...

https://youtu.be/kbDo-40LTkk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbDo-40LTkk

There are lots and lost of related videos.

              floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 19, 2017, 10:53:26 PM
@Dieter

Quote from Dieter

"Yet another interesting observation: two PMs, N vs S, can use the Bloch wall of a third magnet to link their flux, in 90deg to the third magnet. I have no idea why the magnetic domains at the Bloch wall don't react to these forces." 

end quote
..............................................
paraphrased quote....

Two PMs, N vs S, can use a third magnet as a  Bloch wall.

end paraphrased quote
..............................................
They do react.  The net force is zero, because attractions and repulsions are in balance.

They do "react" but  in a magnetic loop ....while exerting little or no external force,
along specific force vectors.....

while also exerting great force in some other force vectors...

but if properly physically restrained.... can not do work / expend energy along those
" some other vectors"....

             floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on March 08, 2017, 11:22:39 PM
@ all readers

This latest addition to the magnets motion and measurements project,
is a detailed explanation of how to calculate the work done by a force that is
changing with distance.  (like a magnetic force).


Please find the attached file   "MagnetForceIntegration 2.PDF"

     best wishes
             floor


Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on March 10, 2017, 02:23:32 AM
Thanks Floor, downloaded, will read later.


A little thought of mine, that I'd like to share with you just here:


Simple proof for PMs being able to provide overunity:


Take a PM, lay it down on a table, then lay on it a coreless coil, such as a pancake. Now give a brief DC pulse of an exact amount of energy to the coil, so it will be repelled from the PM and jump up a certain height, which you will measure precisely.


Now take a much bigger, stronger PM to replace the one on the table. Do the exact same test again with the coil. The coil jumps higher! Where does the additional energy come from? From the PM! Got any other explanation? Hehe, thought so.


Total repulsion force is that of the coil and that of the PM. Only the PM is virtually inexhaustible.


Based on that thought, we should be able to increase torque solely by adding more PM strength.


Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on March 10, 2017, 04:55:29 PM
@ All readers

new video.
It shows an effective magnet shield in action.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5eg7kk_magnetshield-1_tech

As far as I'm concerned, this is all open source and public domain.
All in common...that's the only real over unity there is. 

     Thanks for all of your good input dieter

                 Peace... Out
                     floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on March 10, 2017, 07:02:14 PM
Very interesting, Floor. Did you injure your thumb between them magnets? :)


Now as usual, only measurements will tell whether there is any real gain. Which I hope very much.


Maybe you need to do the rasterization of push/pull force at any millimeter of both, shield motion and repulsion of both stacks.


But I take it you mean it when you say it's "very easy" to remove the shield.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on March 12, 2017, 01:14:21 AM
 @Dieter

A magnet in close proximity to the coil changes the characteristics
of the coil.  The inductance (reluctance at the start of current flow) and
(reactive voltage spike, once  the voltage is turned off)  are both changed. 

It's difficult to demonstrate that precisely the same amount of electrical power
would be transferred in each of the two scenarios.

There are years of argument on the forum over this subject.

This is why I stick to force and displacement by magnets.

These basics physical properties and their measurement can not be disputed  ....
at least not REASONABLY.

          The thumb is doing fine.
              regards
                      floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on March 15, 2017, 12:21:28 AM
@Floor, of course, the all PM drive is the Holy Grail of free energy. But I am so desperste, I take everything that brings me closer to the aim.


Collapsing field can be useful, if the coil is turned off right when the magnet passes it eg.: attract by DC pulse, then repell by collapsing fields Back MMF.


Or the Back MMF of collapsing field can be suppressed by a diode.


There is a Lenz drag, but it is a secondary (=weaker) field, opposing not the input power, but the PM, and this only partially.


Whatever science says, never forget: Mankind is stupid and perfectly capable of missing fundamental basics.


Also when it comes to PMs, so it is really the attitude that makes us progressive, inspired or resigning. We crashed on the planet of the apes and we were just told by the ape leaders that "Magnetism" is delusional nonexisting nonsense...


Despite their fancy parade uniforms, I tend to question the truth in every word, coming from those leaders. Because they shaped this world.


Ahh, I' babbling ^^


You know I never lost hope. I may do some alternating hobby activities, so I don't slip into a manic free energy fixation (just because that's not enjoyable), but I never gave up hope. Because hope dies last.


kr
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on March 18, 2017, 12:22:40 AM
@Dieter

I'm not done yet either.

I'll put together / refine the next section  of the
magnets motion and measurements book (this topic).
That next section will begin with constant force over distance,
and integration of a force changing with distance explanations.
.........................
Then I'll do a presentation of a measurement set of the magnetic force shield,
(in that topic) and also in the (all magnet motor TD based topic).

                regards
                      floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on May 12, 2017, 10:20:20 PM
@All readers

          Here is my most recent revision of part one of the
                  "Magnets motion and measurement"   book.

It is still undergoing revisions and corrections.  The most recent
changes begin at the last section of page 43, and continue through
page 45's upper part.  That new / corrected material gives an explanation of
and breadown down of,  the formula Ek = 1/2 mass x velocity^2.

This is a work in progress.

Corrections to and inputs to the pjoject are welcomed.
Thanks again, to those who have allready contributed.

I now consider part one as complete.

Part 2 is in the works.

                       Please find the attached file "MeasPhy(10-T).pdf file.

                regards
                          floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on May 16, 2017, 09:43:01 PM
Thanks guys for the proof reads...

please find the    most recent ..... attached  "MeasPhy(10-T-b).pdf" file

   floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on May 21, 2017, 07:05:17 PM
Please find the most recent version of part 1 of the "MeasPhy(10-U).pdf" book

As per usual please discard previous versions.

          regards
                   floor

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on May 25, 2017, 03:28:17 PM
I'm going to begin posting part 2 of this project.

Below is the final PDF draft of part 1... MeasPhy(10-V).PDF

    floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on June 21, 2017, 07:36:24 PM
This is the latest draft of the Magnets, Motion and Measurement book

                           version "MeasPhy(10-v). pdf" .....  date  (6-21-17)  Part 1

It has only minor revisions, from the last version. 

I have not found any serious errors in the previous version.(10-7-b).pdf.

                                                 BUT

I have made some minor, but worthwhile improvements / clarifications to a few parts of it.

I am working on part 2, and will present it in pieces, as it progresses. 

Part two will begin with "Magnet Force Measurement, Some Methods and Math".

Please discard all previous version of the the project and please do not redistribute it,
as this is still a work in progress.

                      best wishes
                                   floor