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Author Topic: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?  (Read 52772 times)

Offline ramset

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #240 on: March 14, 2017, 03:29:14 PM »
Well
A gentleman over here has some thoughts and he is looking to experiment ?
and experimenters?

at Aaron's forum here

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20706-innovatehno-eu.html

I am sure all comments would be welcomed over there [on topic]

respectfully
Chet K

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #241 on: March 14, 2017, 04:10:53 PM »
This is like a placebo effect in a placebo in a placebo with a special powder.

I think the best compromise for attracting customr and proving would be somekind of chain...

What kind of floor was it did he know?

Guy is right, that huge magnet is ridiculous, If it was real we might know very little just by watching.

I would experiment but I am shooting in the dark.

This guy knows nothing... ;D

See the Hans cohler device, and place that thing in the plastic box? What are those balls for?


Offline ramset

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #242 on: March 14, 2017, 07:54:51 PM »
Arm
you should not be so Rude to potential guests ... others here may want to learn more about this ?


Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #243 on: March 14, 2017, 10:41:53 PM »
Sorry...but heknownothing...

I am all ears, this device interests me

But if not more info is given there s nothing to work with.

Tell Iknownothing to reveal all technical details and details of visit.

If we can narrow this down to a quick thing...maybe

Otherwise this is dead end 100%.


Offline Shanti

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #244 on: March 15, 2017, 10:52:46 AM »
Just my 2 cents:

Right in the beginning when they brought up the story involving Coler it was obvious to me, that it was a fake.
Simply because Coler has been debunked. His Magnetstromapperat principle has been successfully replicated and the effect is galvanic. We also know that they deceived with their measuring instruments on the Stromerzeuger. BTW we also know Coler wasn't a boat captain and he wasn't the man behind all this (IMHO he just got involved as the face frontman for credibility, because the actual man behind this was "Willi von Unruh", and he had already been convicted for fraud with the Stromerzeuger)

I'm just a bit puzzled that they didn't knew that Coler has been debunked, and so brought up this story...

Edit:
But probably still many people don't know that Coler has been debunked...as AFAIK noone translated yet the whole story (http://www.energiederzukunft.org/forum/5-allgemeines-forum/285-hans-coler) into english.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 02:00:57 PM by Shanti »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #244 on: March 15, 2017, 10:52:46 AM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #245 on: March 15, 2017, 02:14:51 PM »
Shanti
I had not read this debunk claim , may have heard it in Passing ..but this is the first Material presented here ?? [which I cannot read BTW] also I see no date on your link ?

would be good to have a quality translation ,so as to Vet this debunk ??

respectfully
Chet K

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #246 on: March 15, 2017, 02:31:58 PM »
I have to beg to differ on the debunking business. Most do not know what exactly was done and do not replicate exactly the device debunked. They make some attempt and then debunk it.

Patrick has published his Chapter 22 in December on Multiple Wave Oscillator appratus of Georges Lakhovsky. This is not a COP>1 device but a medical device and the Patent for it existed but no one has been able to build a working device. I built a poor replica of what is described in Chapter 22 of Patricks book. The device consumes from 120 watts to 600 watts and has been deliberately built with a weak electric field by us. The device is able to light up a 40 watt tube light when it is placed in between the two aerials without touching any thing proving that high frequency electric field is certainly generated. But the secondary turns are kept deliberately low so that the Electric field is low. On the internet you find videos where there are sparks coming out of the rings. Now can I say in all my honesty look it is a fake it does not produce sparks and so what is shown in youtube ought to be a fake for what I did does not produce sparks. I naturally cannot for I'm carefully experimenting with a high voltage device and have to step by step increase the electric field. This is for a device for which full disclosure and construction details are provided. There is a lot of difference between the actual build and what is disclosed in the patent.

Do we know any info on construction of Hans Coler, Hubbard, Figuera or Hendershot devices. We have none. When that is the case how can we in all our honesty or modesty claim that things have been debunked? I'm unable to accept in the fairness of the debunking writings. I have measured many times COP>1 output but it has been negated for measurement errors and I agree that there is a significant possibility as the results are on the borderline. But if some one says look I do not know about a particular device build and I do not care for the very name iand any device associated with it is debunked is to put it very respectfully not fair.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #246 on: March 15, 2017, 02:31:58 PM »
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Offline Shanti

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #247 on: March 15, 2017, 02:53:59 PM »
Sorry to again go offtopic, just a little addition:

Quote
Do we know any info on construction of Hans Coler, Hubbard, Figuera or Hendershot devices. We have none. When that is the case how can we in all our honesty or modesty claim that things have been debunked

Yes we do have quite detailed descriptions of Coler's construction (even a detailed listing of the materials), which BTW as I said is actually from Willi von Unruh.

User Dodes' (in a german forum) successful replication of the Magnetstromapperat principle, together with all the data we have now gathered about the Coler story IMHO clearly debunks it. Have you read the whole thing? Doesn't seem to be the case to me!
E.g. that they obviously deceived with the meters on the Stromerzeuger IMHO clearly takes any credibility from them...

Sure you can still believe this is all coincidence and so on, and construct a possible story, so that you can still believe it was genuine (and especially in Coler's story there are a few points on which you can point for justification), but you can also believe in pink invisible elephants...
But IMHO from an objective POV looking at the whole story, you clearly can only conclude it being quite a fraud.
Otherwise I rather see a big case of cognitive dissonance (ignoring facts, when they don't fit into your belief system)
BTW: Even Coler himself was later wanted in germany for a fraud trial...

I mean what more do you need?
 *  Wrong translation of the underlying Norrby patent, probably starting it all. (Original french was "increase in voltage", which has been wrongly translated into "increase of power")
 * Successful replication of the Magnetstromapperat principle (and it's energy is based on a galvanic action)
 * "Inventor" has already been in jail for fraud
 * When engineers visited to test, they discovered that they should have been deceived with the built in meters and when they measured themselves, measured no OU anymore.
 * A lot of money was involved...
 * A very shady side-story of Willi's allegedly brother Hans which was also convicted for fraud (he confessed). He claimed to be able to convert salt into gold.
...

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #248 on: March 15, 2017, 03:46:03 PM »
I would very openly concede the following.

a. I have not read the German report.
b. I do not care about the reports for whether they are genuine or not is not known to me unless I experiment and find out.
c. My standard for debunking some thing is to attempt to replicate some thing as described and if it does not work, either my build is poor or the inventor has not disclosed full details.
d. My experience in my hands on experiements is that most if not all hide critical details. the MWO patent has been there from 1931 but no one was able to replicate it until very recently. It is a device built and commercially sold and patent was available online for all to attempt to replicate. Even now I do not believe that the method of treatment is disclosed.
e. I do not go by hearsay evidence. Nor do I go by the inventor has been arrested.


My question is fairly simple.

Did you ever attempt to replicate the success or failure of the unit? If you did not why and how are you competent to certify or debunk some thing about which you have no hands on experience.

Some German name is thrown around and do we know that he is the genuine inventor? If he is indeed he would certainly not disclose the real information. 

Experimental observation and assessment and understanding of principle is key. If you say look this is what I did in a detailed way, I spent my time, money and effort on it and these are my build qualities and these are the observations then you can say about your observations. Mr. X stated some thing in Y language forum and I do not need any thing more than that to debunk it looks like an attempt to prevent people to looking in to this carefully. It may not work for no one provides full disclosure even in patents and we write patents basically to prevent from copying the invention and not to enable them to duplicate it unless they are experts in the subject matter.

It is not a question of faith or belief or lunacy. It is a question of whether you have conducted the experiments, carefully noted down the conditions and attempted to replicate them and whether the original data are reliable or available and how do you certify something without a first hand build experience.

We have lot of TV channels here. One would report a certain fact to be truth and another would present the opposite version. This is called information warfare to disorient, misinform and misdirect people to convince them that a certain thing is the real fact and that they must believe it without ever questioning it. This is not the scientifc method of validation and rejection. 

Offline memoryman

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #249 on: March 15, 2017, 03:57:57 PM »
NRamaswam: in "c. My standard for debunking some thing is to attempt to replicate some thing as described and if it does not work, either my build is poor or the inventor has not disclosed full details." you left out the most likely case: the invention could never work (all OU/FE inventions fail because of this).

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #249 on: March 15, 2017, 03:57:57 PM »
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Offline NRamaswami

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #250 on: March 15, 2017, 05:44:43 PM »
Memoryman

Unfortunately I can neither confirm nor deny what you wrote. All I can confirm is that people who dare to do this type of experiments and try to make this type of devices get into multiple types of problems. Health wealth spiritual and psychological and go through many stressful circumstances. Even if by providence they succeed they become so greedy that the greed ensures that the device is either not disclosed or is suppressed. Marginal technical issues are there but they can be handled.

Any device that uses both Electrostatics and Electromagnetics and may be called an electromechanical device is a potential candidate for successful device.  There are other ways of doing it also but this is the easiest method. This is the very limited understanding that I have. Unfortunately every body who try this type of experiments suffer. I do not know why but this is why I have given up. Except for the MWO thing which is an old medical device I am not interested in anything else.


Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #251 on: March 15, 2017, 05:51:48 PM »
NRamaswami,

If you have faith and belief that it worked, you should try to replicate the german device.

Dont be discouraged and press ahead.

If you dont do it, I dont think nobody will pick up on it, there is usually only 1 motivated person to press ahead deeply, is that you?

So basicly, either you do it, or say it might have worked and still not do it, or say it did not work flat out and dont do it.

Same result: nobody will put the work in to see ? Are you gonna do it?

I am put off by a few thing, I have less faith than you and am busy with other projects. Ramset and memoryman and the others
on this thread dont seem to wanna do it, IKNOWNOTHING does not seem like the type either. So you are the only fanatic left standing.


Offline NRamaswami

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #252 on: March 15, 2017, 06:15:46 PM »
The German device as indicated will not work.

The central component and outer component are missing. Then how will it work. It will not work.

These magnetic fields are very strong and we were very badly affected by them. I am limping today and have difficulty even walking. I am sorry I would not do it. My apologies.

Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #253 on: March 15, 2017, 06:59:26 PM »
NRamawami,

I dont blame you the slightest,

We dont have enough here...

Reading the newst revelations on energetic I am dissapointed...

Isnt it annoying when someone comes along and says hes got privileged info, we get turned on, we think we have an
edge over the house. We think...A family member of some sort who wants to tell a story different from what the papers say... or something along those lines.

But it turns out info is a dudd.


Offline NRamaswami

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Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #254 on: March 16, 2017, 04:52:43 AM »
Almost all info is inaccurate or misleading. No one gives real info either out of fear or greed.

I have seen real principles to be disclosed only in two pages on net as abstract principles. I know of some people who are very competent but who do not bother about forums. It appears that This innovo machine is real. It also appears that Don Smith had a working device but it produced extremely inimical radiation and so was sort of banned. Any device that uses open core is said to produce inimical radiation. All of this hearsay only. So you can ignore it if you wish.

Here People do not do real experiments. They tend to think electronics can replace electrical machines. Pray tell me which electric generator is small. I have not put magnetic shielding and that's the reason for my problems. Even a bicycle dynamo has magnetic shielding. I will need another six to 9 months of rest and recuperation to again do these experiments. Assuming that I have recovered and then continue to have the desire. Puny proof of concept devices will not work.

Let me take leave now. Thanks

Respectfully

Ramaswami


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: InnovaTehno.eu Free Energy Device - a big Fake or the real thing ?
« Reply #254 on: March 16, 2017, 04:52:43 AM »

 

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