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Author Topic: neon sign transformer confusion  (Read 6296 times)

Offline forest

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Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2016, 01:59:33 PM »
IMHO You can use any parts , it doesn't matter, just take whatever you have with kV range. The essence is you have to measure LC resonant frequency and the length of secondary to be 4 times the primary. Here is the catch I think.
The secondary is like a mirror of primary with diodes used to pump capacitor.
The first thing I would check is the method used on primary side. It is weak method to charge capacitor with impulses - I would try if it works in such configuration, the performance doesn't mattter. It's usd to pump LC circuit at correct frequency and the spark is the limit. IMHO it may waork in two different modes, I don't know which ose was used by Don. First is continous oscillations on primary are used to pump secondary resonance, the second is discontinous - the pumping is only strong when the spark gap fire. Weird circuit indeed, but the ideas are more clear now when you realize it has two resonances matched.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2016, 01:59:33 PM »

Offline Zeitmaschine

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Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2016, 06:40:12 PM »
Radioionic Energy Receiver

That schematic looks strangely similar to the Don Smith device arrangement.

Although I don't think it is the best idea to have an antenna stretched across the room connected to 20.000 volts. :) (C1 is rated 1nF/20kV)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Tesluh

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Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2016, 04:02:15 AM »
has anyone built the above device, would love to see one. 

Can anyone speculate what the lug on the nst is connected to?  would it have to be a center tap or not necessarily.  Still having a hard time finding an nst that satisfies the needs of this circuit.  I did however get one in that showed a nice rising trumpet waveform right out of the box.  I think I ruined it though by using the "ground" wire.  it stopped giving me a nice trumpet waveform after I touched the ground wire to the spark gap.  I also should have recorded how I had it wired up because I am trying so many different configurations and now I cant get it to repeat.   

Offline Zeitmaschine

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Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2016, 10:05:19 AM »
would love to see one. 

Radioionic Energy Receiver

Don't know if mass production is already on its way. 8)


Offline Tesluh

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Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2016, 06:10:23 PM »
very interesting, nicely built. 
As far as my nst searching goes, I found a similar nst to the one shown in the video you posted.  coolneon ng.a108ft  however the ground lug had a gfci attached.  since I ruined it anyway I decided to saw it apart (the resin was rock hard) and see if I could find a way to destroy the gfci without ruining the whole thing.  I was able to get at the center tap wires (I expected it to be impossible) so if I really want I should be able to "make" an 8kv  HF center tap non gfci with built in dimmer.  I am waiting on another one to arrive (the nice thing is they are only $37 ea).  hopefully I can modify it and make the circuit the way I think it should go.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/111994079297?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2016, 06:10:23 PM »
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Offline Tesluh

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Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2016, 10:55:23 PM »
had to modify this nst to get it to work but at least I finally have a high frequency nst with a firing spark gap.  need to start tuning the coils.  This will get me started but will continue to look for a better option as far as high frequency power supply.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2016, 11:28:09 PM »
Whats the yellow wire to the left on the xfmr? Did you try that as the ground screw alternative?

Glad to see you going at it. ;)

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2016, 11:28:09 PM »
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Offline Tesluh

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Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2016, 12:57:36 AM »
That is the "ground" wire for if it were used as a neon power supply, it seems loosely attached to the output of the secondary (mohms or kohms resistance) but it is directly connected to ground pin on input plug.  attaching it just like the other wire is now resulted in nothing.  no spark.  there was something very special about the way the Bertonee and that one in that video are built internally.  I just got a different one same part number as the one in the video but different mfg, same threaded stud as the bertonee but no spark when circuit is attached like Don's.

Offline mscoffman

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Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2016, 06:07:06 AM »

The reason for the CT center tapped ground in the neon transformers is so there is always +4KV or -4KV from each neon light pole/probe to ground. That way if you accidently
touch between eighter probe of the neon bulb and ground you get only a max of 4K volts rather than the whole 8K volts/nothing.  There shouldn't be any reason you can't design
Don Smith RF circuit to be ungrounded/balanced then in the final transformer secondary have it become ground referenced again.

Offline Tesluh

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Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2016, 03:02:58 PM »
Are you saying l1 primary side not grounded and l2 secondary side grounded?  I agree, a ground somewhere on the primary side might help (Don said this was the key to "getting amps" out of the system) but it shouldn't be necessary to pulse the primary coil.  I believe (and please correct me if I am wrong) that using both legs back to center doubles the frequency of the output so instead of about 35khz it would be more like 70 kHz.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2016, 03:02:58 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2016, 11:06:31 PM »
The reason for the CT center tapped ground in the neon transformers is so there is always +4KV or -4KV from each neon light pole/probe to ground. That way if you accidently
touch between eighter probe of the neon bulb and ground you get only a max of 4K volts rather than the whole 8K volts/nothing.  There shouldn't be any reason you can't design
Don Smith RF circuit to be ungrounded/balanced then in the final transformer secondary have it become ground referenced again.

Ah, so maybe the spark gap is too high of a voltage breakdown and thats why he isnt getting spark when the yel wire is used.

Mags

Offline Tesluh

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Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2016, 11:36:20 PM »
the last time I connected to the green wire without spark gap it ruined the output of the nst.  I think it shorted some wires in the transformer.  not an option as far as I can tell for getting this circuit to function. 


Offline Tesluh

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Re: neon sign transformer confusion
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2017, 02:09:24 AM »
trying the "tesla coil approach" and found a brand new 60hz steel outdoor nst that has an external gfci (not potted in resin).  Going to do some tests with it and see if it can be used as the power supply.

 

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