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Author Topic: Increase the potential energy without any energy  (Read 9756 times)

Offline webby1

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #120 on: September 28, 2017, 08:47:49 PM »
When energy is not conserved what you are being told is that you are NOT including all things.


Energy will ALWAYS be conserved because energy is a tool made by man so that things that are not the same can be compared,, it is a tool,, this very tool is telling you that you do not have all things considered.


Your c_drive needs to move the spring\spheres down from L1 to L2,, it needs to add that energy INTO the system so that it can then take it back OUT,, this is what the tool of energy is telling you.
It is telling you what the c_drive is doing,,it is putting in "e" and also taking "e" out.


O.U. will only be O.U. until the unknown component is identified, studied, and understood, then it will be a known process.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #120 on: September 28, 2017, 08:47:49 PM »

Offline activ25

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #121 on: September 28, 2017, 09:41:50 PM »
When energy is not conserved what you are being told is that you are NOT including all things.


Energy will ALWAYS be conserved because energy is a tool made by man so that things that are not the same can be compared,, it is a tool,, this very tool is telling you that you do not have all things considered.


Your c_drive needs to move the spring\spheres down from L1 to L2,, it needs to add that energy INTO the system so that it can then take it back OUT,, this is what the tool of energy is telling you.
It is telling you what the c_drive is doing,,it is putting in "e" and also taking "e" out.


O.U. will only be O.U. until the unknown component is identified, studied, and understood, then it will be a known process.

Pass from L1 to L2 = win an energy. My device don't need in theory an external device. So in theory, the sum of energy is not conserved. And it will be the same in practice with an external control device.


"Energy will ALWAYS be conserved " is like the image.


Offline webby1

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #122 on: September 28, 2017, 10:44:53 PM »
Well then,, I guess the only thing left for you to do is to build it and show me that the spring\spheres will all just "magically" want to jump to a higher state of energy so you can harvest that energy.


Think about it,, then a car should freely roll uphill,, why do we even need motors,,  I mean it is only a gradient in gravity going uphill and according to you that change in gradient should be free.


Good luck.

Offline activ25

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #123 on: September 29, 2017, 04:31:51 AM »
The springs don't increase their potential energy, they decrease... I win this energy L1>L2.

Well then,, I guess the only thing left for you to do is to build

No, this theoretical device is there to prove the conservation of energy (like others conservations) is bullshit. I have anothers ideas complex to calculate but easier to build.


Offline webby1

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #124 on: September 29, 2017, 06:58:15 PM »
No, this theoretical device is there to prove the conservation of energy (like others conservations) is bullshit. I have anothers ideas complex to calculate but easier to build.


How can you measure something if the ruler you are using keeps changing its unit of measure?
If you measure and cut this 2X4 to be 24 inches long but when you go to measure that 2X4 the unit called 1 inch is now not the same distance\length,, can you cut both boards to the exact same length so that they can fit in the exact same place?


Energy and its description,, its constraints,, its unit of measure is the same thing as the 1 inch of a tape measure,, it has to stay the same so that you can make sure that the 2X4's are the same.


What you have demonstrated is that you are misinformed on what the law of conservation of energy is.


You measure your device and you come up with a gain of some sort,, the conservative component of ENERGY is then telling you that something ELSE is also happening that you have NOT noticed, included, understood, measured,,, whatever,, there is something else happening that you need to find.


The conservation of gravity,,, magnetic fields,, electric fields,, momentum,, all of those,, what do you think they are saying?  they are saying that if they are NOT conserved,, not the same before and after,,, then something else has happened,, they are telling the observer that they need to find another interaction with the system they are observing beyond those things they have observed.


There is not a "law" that states you can not get free energy,, the law's will help you identify what is paying the cost for YOUR free lunch.


All the laws and formulas can not do one thing,, there is one thing that they can never do,, do you know what that is?
All the laws and formulas can only do one thing,,, do you know what that is?


They can never ASK a question,, the only thing they can do is answer a question.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #124 on: September 29, 2017, 06:58:15 PM »
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Offline activ25

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #125 on: September 29, 2017, 08:53:39 PM »

How can you measure something if the ruler you are using keeps changing its unit of measure?
If you measure and cut this 2X4 to be 24 inches long but when you go to measure that 2X4 the unit called 1 inch is now not the same distance\length,, can you cut both boards to the exact same length so that they can fit in the exact same place?


Energy and its description,, its constraints,, its unit of measure is the same thing as the 1 inch of a tape measure,, it has to stay the same so that you can make sure that the 2X4's are the same.


What you have demonstrated is that you are misinformed on what the law of conservation of energy is.


You measure your device and you come up with a gain of some sort,, the conservative component of ENERGY is then telling you that something ELSE is also happening that you have NOT noticed, included, understood, measured,,, whatever,, there is something else happening that you need to find.


The conservation of gravity,,, magnetic fields,, electric fields,, momentum,, all of those,, what do you think they are saying?  they are saying that if they are NOT conserved,, not the same before and after,,, then something else has happened,, they are telling the observer that they need to find another interaction with the system they are observing beyond those things they have observed.


There is not a "law" that states you can not get free energy,, the law's will help you identify what is paying the cost for YOUR free lunch.


All the laws and formulas can not do one thing,, there is one thing that they can never do,, do you know what that is?
All the laws and formulas can only do one thing,,, do you know what that is?


They can never ASK a question,, the only thing they can do is answer a question.

I explained all the device, I gave all the informations to understand it. I'm not here to discuss about human's believes (laws that you call) but to prove with an example it is possible to create the energy, destroy it. Even the word 'law' is crazy. Noether proves only that a continuous function of a device cannot create an energy, it's all, mine is not continuous.

Where I spoke about change units of measure ...

The energy won by the walls is the energy lost by the springs of the spheres that don't move out/in BUT there is the energy from the springs that the spheres move out/in. Hey ! that's all, nothing more. No friction, no delay due to the mass, volumes are constant

Maybe people don't want to understand, they prefer to believe.

Offline webby1

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #126 on: September 29, 2017, 09:21:41 PM »
Where I spoke about change units of measure ...


right here



No, this theoretical device is there to prove the conservation of energy (like others conservations) is bullshit.


Enjoy those 2 free crackers with a slice of cheese,, I don't think they make much of a lunch :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #126 on: September 29, 2017, 09:21:41 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #127 on: September 30, 2017, 06:46:35 AM »

How can you measure something if the ruler you are using keeps changing its unit of measure?
If you measure and cut this 2X4 to be 24 inches long but when you go to measure that 2X4 the unit called 1 inch is now not the same distance\length,, can you cut both boards to the exact same length so that they can fit in the exact same place?


Energy and its description,, its constraints,, its unit of measure is the same thing as the 1 inch of a tape measure,, it has to stay the same so that you can make sure that the 2X4's are the same.


What you have demonstrated is that you are misinformed on what the law of conservation of energy is.


You measure your device and you come up with a gain of some sort,, the conservative component of ENERGY is then telling you that something ELSE is also happening that you have NOT noticed, included, understood, measured,,, whatever,, there is something else happening that you need to find.


The conservation of gravity,,, magnetic fields,, electric fields,, momentum,, all of those,, what do you think they are saying?  they are saying that if they are NOT conserved,, not the same before and after,,, then something else has happened,, they are telling the observer that they need to find another interaction with the system they are observing beyond those things they have observed.


There is not a "law" that states you can not get free energy,, the law's will help you identify what is paying the cost for YOUR free lunch.


All the laws and formulas can not do one thing,, there is one thing that they can never do,, do you know what that is?
All the laws and formulas can only do one thing,,, do you know what that is?


They can never ASK a question,, the only thing they can do is answer a question.

So with all that said, are you done looking for OU? Sounds very much like it.

Mags

Offline webby1

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #128 on: September 30, 2017, 07:31:36 AM »
So with all that said, are you done looking for OU? Sounds very much like it.

Mags


Never have really been looking for O.U.,, it does not exist,, free energy and or power to me on the other hand,,,  :)


I use my "creativity" and ask questions,, I try and use the tools available to answer those questions and I keep looking and playing.
Take the cap to cap dump thing,, great example of when there is NOT a good answer of one just being thrown out there so they do not have to admit that there is a problem they have no clue about,, they being any one that is concerned about NOT having an appropriate answer.
The simple math shows that there are not enough charge carriers to support the voltage needed with twice the capacitance,, it is all that simple, the question of what is NOT being used and thrown away in THAT condition,, well there is not an answer for that so far,, I showed with the simple rotary cap that there is a mechanical component that is not used,, and with a cap to cap there is no change in a mechanical process so you might argue that that piece is wasted,, free acceleration with no bounds,, aka instantaneous,, which would make for a lot of heat on the plates themselves,, until they are superconducting kind of plates,,,,,  speaking of which these new super-duper-super-caps,, they can take a lot in really fast without so much of the heat problem so maybe that part is already taken care of,, as far as where the lost energy has gone,,, leaving it still as an unknown.


I have seen and played with to many anomalies,, things doing, for some range, things that they should not,, then trying to ask the correct questions so that that short range can be optimized,,,, that is harder than I think it should be,, for me so far anyway.


Back to the tools,,,  conservation is a fabulous tool to use,, energy is just an agreed upon "magic" number,, ok it comes from agreed upon empirical values,, so the weight of a kg is agreed upon and set,, the length of a meter,,  time,, all these things are set to a uniform measured thing and methods of interaction,,, Energy is useless,, it is only a potential and you hold an infinite amount of energy in the palm of your hand,,, making it do some work is the trick,, making it go from POTENTIAL work into REAL work


Just because a spring may have a changed PE does not mean you can use it unless there is a motion that is caused by the a change in that PE,, an exchange,,,  now sometimes I wonder if the cap issue is in the unbounded acceleration,, f=ma and the acceleration will be in both directions speed up and stop,,, now I am rambling on,,,


But no,, I have not stopped looking :)

Offline activ25

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #129 on: September 30, 2017, 07:45:10 AM »

right here
where ? you don't pointed where I could make a mistake, just write your believes.


Enjoy those 2 free crackers with a slice of cheese,, I don't think they make much of a lunch :)
not more than your believes...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #129 on: September 30, 2017, 07:45:10 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #130 on: October 01, 2017, 12:59:07 AM »

Never have really been looking for O.U.,, it does not exist,, free energy and or power to me on the other hand,,,  :)


I use my "creativity" and ask questions,, I try and use the tools available to answer those questions and I keep looking and playing.
Take the cap to cap dump thing,, great example of when there is NOT a good answer of one just being thrown out there so they do not have to admit that there is a problem they have no clue about,, they being any one that is concerned about NOT having an appropriate answer.
The simple math shows that there are not enough charge carriers to support the voltage needed with twice the capacitance,, it is all that simple, the question of what is NOT being used and thrown away in THAT condition,, well there is not an answer for that so far,, I showed with the simple rotary cap that there is a mechanical component that is not used,, and with a cap to cap there is no change in a mechanical process so you might argue that that piece is wasted,, free acceleration with no bounds,, aka instantaneous,, which would make for a lot of heat on the plates themselves,, until they are superconducting kind of plates,,,,,  speaking of which these new super-duper-super-caps,, they can take a lot in really fast without so much of the heat problem so maybe that part is already taken care of,, as far as where the lost energy has gone,,, leaving it still as an unknown.


I have seen and played with to many anomalies,, things doing, for some range, things that they should not,, then trying to ask the correct questions so that that short range can be optimized,,,, that is harder than I think it should be,, for me so far anyway.


Back to the tools,,,  conservation is a fabulous tool to use,, energy is just an agreed upon "magic" number,, ok it comes from agreed upon empirical values,, so the weight of a kg is agreed upon and set,, the length of a meter,,  time,, all these things are set to a uniform measured thing and methods of interaction,,, Energy is useless,, it is only a potential and you hold an infinite amount of energy in the palm of your hand,,, making it do some work is the trick,, making it go from POTENTIAL work into REAL work


Just because a spring may have a changed PE does not mean you can use it unless there is a motion that is caused by the a change in that PE,, an exchange,,,  now sometimes I wonder if the cap issue is in the unbounded acceleration,, f=ma and the acceleration will be in both directions speed up and stop,,, now I am rambling on,,,


But no,, I have not stopped looking :)

First you write....
"Never have really been looking for O.U"

Then lastly you write...
"But no,, I have not stopped looking"

Is it that you have not stopped looking because you were never looking in the first place?

Im putting my ideas for the possible OU by way of speakers together since I last posted on it. Im going to put it in its own thread. Was talking to a guy I had just met at the bank I use. We just struck it up talking Trump. but it got into a myriad of things. He plays guitar and builds his own amps and seems to have a fare knowledge of speakers and ported boxs. So we got into it till the people at the bank said we are closing.. But through that I managed to eureka some ideas on it along the way in the conversion from speaker to circuit.  Im even more convinced than I was before. The guy is an atty and does some pat stuff also. I gave him the plausibility of you cant pat a device that is over 100% eff and he said, that isnt true. So I refereed him to the SAWS document that specifies so. No free energy pat. No claims of tachyons. etc. He got my number and is interested in checking it out. He agrees with me that if it is so that free energy  or overunity really does not exist then why make such statements that most dont even bother to read. Its like this. The saws document is there either for discouraging doing so as to not clog up the system with wasting time on going through them for approval purposes unnecessarily, or it is there to discourage the initiative of trying to get a pat on the real thing. Well thats a conundrum in a way. For the first possible reason why they have the saws doc, it neglects the possibility of 'new' technological advancement beyond what is already known. Well new stuff comes out all the time and who are they to say that new ideas are just still same ole same ole. And if its the second possible reason, then we here know what that reasoning is. So either one is oppressive any way you look at it.

He was also intrigued with the speaker ideas I have presented. He never considered what the eff of a speaker actually was as per its sensitivity rating, as I believe most do not, and he wholeheartedly agreed. The only person I have heard say that they knew something was Vidar. But his claim of the 96db speaker is only 1% eff did not expand to the db level ratings that are closer or even 100% as I did. And then said that it is still no good. Im not buying it till I see it first. So Im going for it. ;) It should be an interesting thread. I am first going to  state that it will be heavily moderated to keep it clean. If someone wants to contribute, then I prefer helpful contributions that are lending toward a positive outcome. I will also make a second thread where arguments against the main thread can be posted so that the main thread stays clean for interested guests and members. So it is not oppression of free speech as long as there is the venue of the second thread to do your do.

Mags


Offline webby1

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #131 on: October 01, 2017, 03:41:48 PM »
I look because I like looking,, not for anything in specific but just at what happens.


It is in a way like your speaker setup,, that is a huge medium with all sorts of internal and external interactions,,  what or who is to say that if you give to nature just right she won't return that with interest?  If you don't look you will never know,, if you don't see that does not mean something is not there,, so if some person before did not see,,, then what :)


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #132 on: October 01, 2017, 11:10:27 PM »
I look because I like looking,, not for anything in specific but just at what happens.


It is in a way like your speaker setup,, that is a huge medium with all sorts of internal and external interactions,,  what or who is to say that if you give to nature just right she won't return that with interest?  If you don't look you will never know,, if you don't see that does not mean something is not there,, so if some person before did not see,,, then what :)

Activ asked me to stop posting in this thread. So this is my last, just to respond to what you replied... Ill make it short.

Yeah  there are a few thing going on in a speaker and how it reacts to its applications. The speaker has to overcome its suspension and move its mass and then move, pressurize and depressurize the air.   P vs Pae are both actual power of electrical input and energy in the air as pressures and expansion. The are not different in how they calculate energy use. So new thread coming.

Mags

Mags

Offline activ25

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #133 on: October 11, 2017, 08:57:56 AM »
I take the device with the whte disk fixed (disk or another shape).

1/ the energy from the walls is constant
2/ the potential energy at start is constant
3/ the potential energy at final is constant
4/ the potential energy of any layer 1, 2, anywhere I take it is constant
5/ the pressure of the layer 1 is not the same than the layer 2, I can choose any layer I want, so the sum of energy cannot be constant.


Offline activ25

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Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #134 on: October 12, 2017, 07:52:23 AM »
Hey ! so easy now !

All the energies are constant except the energy I recover from the line 1 (to move out the line of spheres, not the potential energy of the springs) and the energy to move in the line 2. It is the energy from pressure.

The energy from the walls don't depend of the lines 1 and 2 I choose, it is a constant.
The white object is fixed to the ground, so no energy from it.
The potential energy at start and at final don't depend of the lines 1 and 2 I choose.
The potential energy of the line 1 and 2 are the same (the energy stored in the springs).



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #134 on: October 12, 2017, 07:52:23 AM »

 

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