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Author Topic: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity  (Read 9161 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2016, 06:57:04 PM »
Thanks for the explanaton, and I look forward to see your design :-)


I have approx:
100 pcs 26mm diameter, 6mm thick, N50, magnetized through thickness.
18 pcs 50 x 5 x 1.6 rectangular N50, magneticed through thickness.
A bunch of 10mm diameter, 3mm thick, N40, magnetized through thickness.
And some different small magnets extracted from dead brushless motors.


So I have a few magnets to play with. If your design work as big size, it should work as small size so it is easier to manage, and put together.
Those 26mm diameter magnets are BAD. I can't count how many times I have been bleeding from pincing my fingers with these.


I have not measured how much weight they can lift, but the small 10mm diameter magnets can lift a 2.5kg sledge hammer with ease.


If I must print some parts on the 3D printer, the maximum size is 200mm x 200mm x 170mm.


Hope this information helps.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline vikram_gupta11

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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2016, 07:13:50 PM »
dear Sir, Thank you for your reply . I will send you more details very soon.
thank you Sir


Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2016, 04:46:30 PM »
Dear vikram_gupta11,

I would like to draw your attention to a youtube video referenced in this thread here:
http://overunity.com/16847/gravity-energy-i24news-israel/msg491195/#msg491195 

The reason is that I think the principle involved in the video is similar to your device principle shown in this thread: to keep a balanced seesaw system in motion with a small amount of input energy while utilizing possible output energy of the system by appropiate ways. The difference is that in the video above the output energy is taken from piezo electric devices that are pressed as per the seesaw structure moves back and forth.

Please do not shoot the messenger...  :D no bad intentions involved.  Looking forward to your progress here and I wish you good luck.

Greetings
Gyula

Offline vikram_gupta11

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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2016, 08:31:53 AM »
Dear Mr. Yulasun ,
this is completely different  than My concept. They  cannot generate more out put than input and technics are different.


Offline vikram_gupta11

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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2016, 09:37:25 AM »

Dear VIdar Sir,

I'm sending you some details regarding this concept.

As per sketch we will take a SEESAW system and will attach 50 kilogram weight on the both side of this SEESAW system so that this seesaw will get equilibrium state.
Now we will take four  strong NEODYMIUM magnet and attach each  magnet with each 50 kilogram weight .This 50 kilogram weight will be in RECTANGULAR shape.we will attach these magnets on the lateral surface of 50 kilogram weight.

this 50 kilogram weight will not movable only seesaw 's arm will move .This 50 kilogram weight will be fixed permanently with both arms of seesaw system.

Now we will take two small 800 gram weight and will attach four low power Neodymium magnet with this weight. These weights will move on a inclined(8 to 10 degree)  track system as per sketch.

WE WILL USE  STONE BLOCK  AS A RECTANGULAR WEIGHT(50 kg.and 800 gram) AS CANNOT USE IRON BLOCK DUE TO MAGNETISM

Clearing your doubts.

(1)there is no need of taking springs as I just thought that spring will work as  a absorber of opposite force but in this system there is no need now.

(2)At first we will try this device with  single finger and take more fingers after development.

(3)we will take same quantity but but different size magnets and will attach with both 50 kilogram weight and 800 gram weight.

(4)The repelling force between 50 kilogram weight and 800 gram weight due to  equal polarity will work on 800 gram weight to inclined and repelling this small weight with high  force. This 800 gram weight will get back its position again due to Gravity.

(5)we will use a 3 volt toy motor as a external source to press the seesaw system in linear motion.
We will use a 'L' form crank and this crank will work to convert the rotatory motion of 3 volt motor into linear motion.
this 3 volt toy motor will attach with right arm of seesaw system as per sketch.

(6) We can use ' simple magnet coil' generator to generate electricity. and this generator will be attach with the wheel of 800 gram weight as per sketch . each 800 gram weight will have four wheel so we can attach four generators with each  wheels and thus we can attach more four generators with second no.800 gram weight.

(7)The seesaw system(50 kilogram) will be stated  on some height compare than track system(800 gram weight)  but distance between 50 kg weight and 800 gram weight will be very less so that the magnet of 50 kilogram weight could repel 800 gram weight.

MECHANISM:
when right arm of seesaw  which is attached with 3 volt motor  will be pressed by 3 volt toy motor  then this arm will come down and the 50 kilogram weight will work to repel the 800 gram weight with high force.  Due to repelling this 800 gram weight move fastly and generate electricity as generators are attached with the wheels of this 800 gram weight.
Now due to linear motion this arm will move up and second arm of seesaw system will come down and will work to repel its side 800 gram weight.
In this way both side arm of seesaw system will work to repel their side 800 gram weight by their turn.

I would like  to insist on some following points:

(A)
Each 800 gram weight will also have four simple magnet coil generators .Take this 800 gram weight as a measurement as its weight will be increased after attaching generators but this is not a problem .I took these weight only for your convenience so that you could understand easily this concept.

(B)The repelling force will not affect the movement of seesaw system and it will move in linear motion very easily with only 3 volt motor as due to repelling the 800 gram weight magnet will get further distance and there will no effect of equal repelling on this seesaw weight and  in that time this arm will be pulled up by 3 volt motor due to linear motion.

In this way this device will work I hope this time you will understand it completely .

Thank you Sir

Vikram

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2016, 09:37:25 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2016, 11:44:49 AM »
Why can't we use 500 grams and 8 grams instead - and use my smallest magnets? I don't have 50kg weight anywhere except my kids..., and I do not want to buy a lot of stuff to make the device.
By small picture I meant it isn't necessary for it to be so small that the text in it is unreadable  ;) . Honestly, I cannot see the text - too blurry. Zooming in doesn't help because the letters just melts together into a blurry fog. Sorry for being picky, but I can't read the text on the drawing.


Vidar

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2016, 01:02:28 PM »
Hi Vidar,

I have had also difficulties to make out the text in the small resolution picture, so I tried to use a Picture Editor where colors, contrast etc can be adjusted and I think I managed to improve a little the text so that I recognised all the words. At least I think I understood everything correctly and I included the text again, see the attachment.  If I made a mistake in the text, then vikram_gupta11 would surely inform me and I have 12 hours from now on to reedit and reload (or completely remove) the picture.

By the way, the correct picture size on this forum is to use a max 900 pixel horizontal resolution, this do not cause any widening in the horizontal size of the threads.

Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2016, 01:02:28 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2016, 02:26:49 PM »
AHA! Now I understand the concept.
That 3V toy motor will probably get overloaded pretty quick as it is suppose to set 100kg of inertia in motion, stop it and return over and over again.


The repulsive forces from the 50kg weight-magnet that push the 800 gram weight will be enough to push the 800 gram weight just as high as the repulsive force allow it to. The 50kg weights movement are anyways controlled by the 3V motor, so I do not see the point in having extra weights on that seesaw at all.


The generator on the 800 gram weight will for sure generate power, but it will be just as much as the force and movement between 50kg+magnet and 800 gram+magnet allows to, that is again depending on the 3V toy motors output.


When the system is in motion, any load of the generator will reduce its motion so that 800 gram weight will not move as far as when unloaded. It will not roll the whole way up, and it will not roll the whole way down. That is also a problem. If the generator is short circuit, it will almost not move at all. I say almost because there is resistance in the copper windings inside the generators. That means that the 800 gram weights will still move a bit, but convert its motion mostly into heat. The reduced motion of the 800 gram weight will also increase the repelling force between it and the seesaw magnet. That will again feed back on the 3V toy motor to make it work even harder.


That 3V toy motor will also suffer from over heating and probably the greatest loss of the whole system.


The left hand side 800 gram weight are suppose to compensate something. However, this weight will not apply anything but more complexity.


The seesaw weights are balancing eachoter, so each weight is held up by the other. However, inertia is a great issue that will destroy the small motor in seconds.
Because of this, you should not have weights there at all. Only the magnets. Because it is the repulsive forces that make up the whole movement in the 800 gram weights.


My wildest guess, is that this system have an efficiency between 5 and 10 %. 90 to 95% loss - mostly because of that poor little toy motor.


I think it is necessary to do "minor" changes to this system to make it more efficient, but the concept will never work as over unity.


This system can in fact be simplified A LOT by attaching the generator directly to the 3V toy motor.


I hope you understand where the glitch is in this design. I'm afraid you have overlooked several issues that rest in this concept - in both complexity and efficiency.
After looking at the edited picture from @gyulasun, it took me 2 seconds to understand that this will not work as efficient as you was hoping for. I am really sorry :-[


Vidar

Offline vikram_gupta11

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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2016, 06:56:56 PM »
Dear Sir,
you are again on the way to misunderstand this concept.If a seesaw system is in balanced state then there is no need of high external energy to move it in other words input energy is almost ZERO.
you are correct that 50 kilogram + weight and 800 gram+ weight depend on this 3 volt toy motor but this motor is just working on the right arm of seesaw system.the 800 gram weight will roll up whole the way as the seesaw system will be fixed on some height than 800 gram weight  and generators will be attached with the wheels of this 800 gram weight .This 3 volt toy motor will work to press the seesaw system after every 1 or 2 second so that  the 50 kg weight and 800 gram weight could get back their position again .

There is no issue regarding inertia in this design

thanks for your interest and but I myself is going to develop this device .

Vikram.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2016, 10:57:36 PM »
The motor works on the whole seesaw. Not only the right side. The weights are physically connected, right?
You must apply energy to start moving total 100kg. You can however gain that energy back when the seesaw goes the other way. But when you load the generator, the seesaw must fight a greater force because a loaded generator (if you connect a lightbulb to it for example) will resist the rotation. This will cause, within the time frame the seesaw is closest, the 800 gram weight not to have time enough to move as far as when it is not loaded with a light bulb.


In theory, you are only pushing a generator with magnetic repulsion. You could most likely put a solid rod right between the motor and the generator because the weights has nothing to do with this. It is not necessary. Really. I'm not joking.

Good luck anyways.

Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2016, 10:57:36 PM »
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Offline vikram_gupta11

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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2016, 11:30:53 AM »
Sir,
I will present an another sketch before this forum based on this seesaw principle after some correction within two days and to know the reviews and comments.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2016, 03:28:14 PM »
OK. I apologize if you feel I've been bantering. I just want to tell you my honest opinions and experience - and I tend to speak without filters...there is no bad intentions.
Please go ahead with a new design.
I do allways think it's exciting to analyze any given issue. I even make problems for myself - intentionally!, just to try to solve those problems, and learn from my intentional mistakes.... I make things that I do know won't work, just to figure out why it doesn't work. I have a project going on now. The device I'm making are beyond my knowledge, because I have no clue why it does not work as I have designed it to do. The only clue I got is the decided trouth that over unity isn't possible. You know what? I don't give a sh**t in textbooks ;D
My own project is about 30% done. The design does not violate any law - as far as I can understand, but still I do not know why it wont work.. When it's done, I will post the results here. If I got time, I will finish the project during this weekend, or next week.


Good luck with the alternative design!


Vidar


Offline vikram_gupta11

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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2016, 08:41:37 AM »
Dear Vidar sir,
My earnest request to you that could you please build a working model of  my second concept "perpetual energy wheel' as you said that you have a metal wheel and can build it in a day .
Please do me a favour and try to build a working model of this 'perpetual energy wheel'.

I shall be very grateful to you .
vikram

Offline vikram_gupta11

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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2016, 08:53:14 AM »
This Idea is based on Magnetic Repulsion and Kinetic force.

According to diagram there will be a  Wheel and a magnet(1) will be attached with this wheel. There will be a balance system(seesaw system) and two magnets(2no.magnet and 3no. magnet) will be attached with this balance system .

when 1 magnet will repel 2 no.magnet then the 2 no.magnet will move upward and due to this movement the 3 no. magnet will come down and will work to repel 1 no. magnet and wheel will start to rotate.
when 1 no. magnet will again repel 2 no.magnet after a rotation then the 3 no. magnet will again work to repel the 1 no.magnet.
THE weight of magnets of balance system will be equal.
In this way the wheel will rotate again and again.The magnetic strength of 1 no. magnet will be high than 2 no. and magnetic strength of 3 no. magnet will be high than 1 no. magnet. The weight of 2 no. magnet and 3 no. magnet will be equal.

We will fix this all system in horizontal direction and metal wheel must not  made with IRON or Steel metal instead Brass or copper or Aluminium. 

Please build it if you have sources .
I shall be very grateful to you.

vikram


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Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2016, 10:36:18 AM »
Dear Vidar sir,
My earnest request to you that could you please build a working model of  my second concept "perpetual energy wheel' as you said that you have a metal wheel and can build it in a day .
Please do me a favour and try to build a working model of this 'perpetual energy wheel'.

I shall be very grateful to you .
vikram
Yes, I have a steel wheel which works great as a flywheel.
It is the same wheel as you see in the video in the link below,
where I demonstrate an imbalanced wheel in a pendulum configuration.


It was a discussion going on a while ago if the vibrations on the pendulum arm
would create energy without affecting the spinning flywheel.
However, as you can see in the video, as soon as I take energy out of the vibrating pendulum,
the wheel slows down rapidly.
The explanation is, when I load that pendulum, the viberation of the pendulums viberation will be a litle delayed.
So the energy that is transferred to my hand will try to force the flywheel to stop.


https://youtu.be/vV3RAL-SWjc


Your concept in your drawing will make the flywheel spin relatively free if there is little loss in the spring.
If you fill that spring with whool or cotton, or a generator, you will have a shock absorber,
and the vibrations in the spring will transfer energy into the whool or generator.
This will cause the similar delay in vibration, and the flywheel will stop sooner - just as the pendulum.
But your design is so easy to build, so I will build it and you'll see what I mean.


I have a question:
If both magnets are attached to the same seesaw, and the spring affect both magnets equally,
how do you determine which way the flywheel will rotate?

Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2016, 10:36:18 AM »

 

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