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Author Topic: Series Cap Scavange  (Read 7199 times)

Offline webby1

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Series Cap Scavange
« on: July 12, 2016, 05:26:00 PM »
I posted this drawing in another thread,, I still do not know what they call this circuit but it is fun.

This is more like a free energy scavenger system.

I made a capacitive voltage divider and hooked it to my PSU,, 2 270uf caps hooked in series,, I then took the common wire and connected it to the diode input and then I am using the + - of the divider and touching them one after the other to the center tap of the main coil.

After so many taps the system caps are charged up to the same voltage as the divider,, as the charge goes up in the system caps the input current from the PSU goes down.

While all this is happening the outside cap is charging up.

When I short the system caps to get rid of there charge the outside cap takes a large jump in charge.

When I short the outside cap the input current is not maybe higher but it takes less taps to charge the system caps,, when I open that outside circuit it takes more taps to charge the system caps.

It does not take too much imagination to then also include a similar system for the divider caps so that those also can provide for some free scavenge energy.

The total input, I am assuming, will be what ends up being stored in the system caps,, you can then use that energy to run some device,, and then the outside cap becomes a free lunch.

Pulsing both the input to charge and the output usage from the system caps I think would provide for the largest free lunch :)

The funny thing about this is that I see this same thing within other devices that are trying to get a free lunch,, but those are way more complicated.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Series Cap Scavange
« on: July 12, 2016, 05:26:00 PM »

Offline webby1

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Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 08:38:35 PM »
I don't have another low resistance center taped coil,, so I used a wall wart and split the center tap.

I placed that between the PSU and the cap dividers and used what was the primary as the secondary into a FWBR and into a 14000uf cap.

When I am done charging up the 2 14000uf series caps to 30V (15V each) the new added cap is up to about 2.2V and the 10000uf outside cap is between 6V-8V,, and I am running the PSU at 30V.

When the system series caps are charged up there is no more current flow from the PSU and I must discharge those caps,, which then will bump the 10000uf outside cap up to as much as 12V.

So it does look like if I were to use the PSU to something else and pulsing the throughput I would be able to scavenge a fair amount of free energy.

My thoughts on how it works is pretty simple and straight forward,, just look at it and it explains itself :)

The advantage to not knowing what I am supposed to be doing is that I also do NOT know what I should NOT do!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline webby1

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Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2016, 03:03:25 PM »
one cycle of filling up the system caps,, shorting all other parts out except for the system caps,,

Shorting the system caps will charge the outside cap to 11V,, then taping again to fill up the system caps brings the outside cap up to 17.5V

With all things at 0.0V and taping 3 times per input wire,, I forgot to count how many taps,,

system caps go to 30V, divider caps stay at 30V, outside cap goes to 10.5V then short the system caps and the outside cap goes to 18V, the divider outside cap goes to 2.1V @ 14000uf.

About 35 cycles to charge the system caps,, it looks like faster taps will do it faster but,, well manually taping things is not very consistent.

I pulse discharge the system caps through another coil, 33 ohms, 8 taps to discharge the system caps and that took the outside cap up to 12.5V from 10.25V.

When I take the PSU and charge the system caps directly, single on, that charges the outside cap to 10V, then discharging the system caps with a direct short takes the outside cap up to 17.5V.

To me this looks like I am getting an additional 25-30% useable electricity by using this system in a pulsed fashion.

Offline webby1

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Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2016, 04:05:19 PM »
I dropped the system caps down to 680uf each,, as I expected the through put is lower to fill them and as such the outside cap does not get as charged,, like 1.2V per fill up.

Then I put a 10.2 ohm resistance motor unloaded across the system caps,, well now every time I pulse I get a large surge of current and the outside cap jumps up rapidly,, but still it is around 50 cycles to hit 30V and will go way over that.

I would also expect that if I increased the divider caps up to 14000uf each then I would have less cycles to fill and a larger increase in the outside cap per fill or cycle.


Offline webby1

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Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2016, 07:25:35 PM »
The question is,,,

What am I scavenging?

From my play and reading of historical information over these past few months my observation is simple.

The magnetic field does not care about voltage.

Voltage does not care about the quantity of charge carriers it is influencing.

What is the form the lost energy is in when you dump a cap to cap,, simple, it is the magnetic potential.

None of the caps are connected in such a way as they can dump there charge into another cap directly.

When the cap is dumped via a coil,, inductor,, it builds a magnetic field that converts and stores potential from the charge carrier quantity that is in motion.

Like a dam to a river this builds a large storage of potential in the magnetic field and that storage mechanism impedes the flow of charge carriers.

How can you reduce that impedance?  How about by having another coil that sees that growth and reacts to it in such a way so that it creates an opposing field that tries to push the field back into the conductor.

A transformer with the secondary shorted will allow for more charge carriers to flow through the primary, we see this all the time,, so more load on the secondary the more current passes through the primary.

I have installed a few dams on the river between my source and what my load would be,, the output point for that being the system caps,, so my input is trying to charge the system caps to reach the output device BUT to charge the caps and then have that energy used up it must go through the dams which are impeding the flow of the river.

When I take out energy from the secondaries it is actually dropping the impedance and allowing for the river to flow more easily.

The output from the secondaries does not take energy out from the source, it helps the source reach the load device.

This is the setup I am using right now.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2016, 07:25:35 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2016, 02:34:16 PM »
I increased the cap size for the dividers to 14270uf,, I added a 14000uf cap to each one that is soldered in the circuit.

I set the PSU to 10.2V, as close as it would go stable to 10V.

I cycled the input one time, that is each divider cap being used to charge the system cap.

After one cycle the system caps were at 7.3V

For an energy balance they would need to be at 7.1V and allowing for other things the 7.3 is close, maybe a little short even.

Pulse charging the system caps without the divider and the PSU set to 5V brings them up to 9.7V,, not actually the same voltage per cap,,but then again this is done by me.

To me it looks like I am getting a fairly conservative pass through of the divider potential and therefor the source potential into the system caps for use from those caps by some output device.

This would then leave whatever I collect from the outside caps to use elsewhere with no cost to the original input.

Offline webby1

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Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2016, 03:07:37 PM »
I went back to the first pic,, I am using the hand cranked motor for the input,, AC.

When I spin that it gives me about 1.6V to 2V AC,, that charges the system caps up to 3.5V to 4.2V and the outside cap will hit 1.2V,, all from a zero volt start.

Very little drag on the motor as felt by Mr. Hand.

I think that this shows that taking out energy from using the system this way is free to the operator.

In this case it would be the 1.2V @ 10000uf

Since the drag on the motor is the amount of current that flows, reducing that current reduces the drag and both the charging cap and the inductor\transformer reduce the current flow but since the output from the secondary helps to increase that flow it also raises the drag back to where it would be if the transformer were not there,, leaving me with the cost of charging the caps.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2016, 03:07:37 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2016, 03:16:39 PM »
On another note,, I am using a system that is similar for charging the divider caps from the source,, this setup also provides for some collected output that does not appear to take away from the source input,, same thing as with the other system.

I was running both systems together, using one to charge up the other, and at the same time from each system scavenging energy without increasing the input,, I think.

The IR^2 losses go up,, but that is way less than what I am getting out and is why for the first system I am using a low resistance transformer,, it is the only one I have.

Offline tak22

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Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2016, 10:23:37 PM »
I miss Groundloop  :'(

He'd have your images whipped into a circuit diagram and explained in a jif  :)

No offence, but any chance you can take everything you've shown so far and distill it?
I think I understand your direction and objective but still not quite getting it ....

tak

Offline webby1

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Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2016, 01:33:04 AM »
non taken,,

I tend to share things in a strange way,, it may make sense to me but maybe not so many others :)

I will work on breaking things down into different groups,, I tend to have multiple things going at the same time,, so there is more than just using a transformer to limit the throughput and scavenge from that ,, there is more than using a cap to charge another cap AND allow a path for more electrons to enter into the system,, which you need to do to have one cap drop from say 10V down to 7.1V and charge another identical cap up to 7.1V and be in an energy balance condition,, and then there is the reverse cap to cap dump,, if there are not enough electrons to the voltage needed,, can you add them while charging them up for less and then shift them over.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2016, 01:33:04 AM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2016, 02:57:03 PM »
The capacitive voltage divider.

I have used this method for years to make it easier for me to make the armature for the motors I have built.

It allows me to easily turn my DC source into an alternating DC supply for the drive coils.  I use one contact finger on the armature and 2 brushes from the caps with one leg of the drive coil going to the finger and the other, via a slip ring, going to the common wire between the two caps.

With Franken Motor having 36 sectors I only needed to cut 18 fingers per drive coil,, much easier than 36 fingers and still using 2 brushes.

The voltage split was dependent on how far each cap was discharged,, while one cap is discharging the other is charging up.

Offline webby1

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Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2016, 02:57:28 PM »
The in-line transformer.

I have used this method for years to make it easier to control the current input to the motors I have built.

I use this in conjunction with the cap dividers and a lower resistance drive coil.

With the secondary open the impedance of the transformer would slow the current pulse from when the contact for the cap was made, slowing the current down so that the cap would not discharge instantly, as the RPM of the motor went up and the normal interactions themselves would preclude the discharge of the cap I would put a resistance across the secondary to reduce the impedance of the transformer,, keep doing that until the RPM was sufficient to jumper the transformer out of the circuit.

This allowed me to get my motors to self start.

This effect is easy enough to produce and see on multi-meters.


Offline webby1

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Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2016, 03:27:35 PM »
The Full Wave Voltage Doubler.

The FWVD is a normal device used to convert an AC source into a DC potential and increase the voltage while decreasing the amperage.

I have included a low resistance center taped transformer as the common leg between the capacitors in this instance.

The inclusion of this reduces the current flow even further from the AC source due to the impedance of the coils but still keeps the inside plates of the 2 capacitors connected.

The diodes on the outside plates keep the charge separation held between the plates of the respective capacitor.

In this usage when the AC source is driving current and voltage into and through the cap\coil pair the secondary of the transformer also will output potential into the Full Wave Bridge Rectifier and store it in the attached capacitor.

When the FWVD is charged up to the desired voltage and discharged into a load then the inside plates will shift the negative plate excess electrons through the coil and into the positive plate deficit providing for a double voltage value passing through a coil that has twice the turns and exciting the secondary of the transformer to produce another output through the FWBR and into its attached cap.

This is easy to reproduce and measure with a multimeter.

Offline webby1

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Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2016, 04:01:29 PM »
The cap to cap dump charge.

An interesting conundrum until you look into the mechanics of the transaction.

A single cap charged to 10V will have X amount of charge carriers shifted from the positive plate onto the negative plate and will hold Y amount of energy.

A single cap charged to 5V will have 0.5X amount of charge carriers shifted from the positive plate onto the negative plate and will hold 0.25Y amount of energy.

We know this from the formulas and those formulas have been empirically demonstrated countless times to hold true.

If when performing a cap to cap dump charge a coil were used to siphon the charge carriers from the positive plate of the 0V capacitor and place them into the electron stream heading into the negative plate of the 0V capacitor then when the dump is finished you would have 7.1V on each capacitor and be balanced in terms of energy, and that should be able to be performed at a zero added input,, theoretically any way.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline webby1

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Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2016, 04:03:56 PM »
Maybe this will help in understanding what I am doing and how I am seeing things and why I am doing what I am trying to do.

All of these interactions do not need sophisticated measuring devices,, a simple multimeter should be able to suffice and all of the individual interactions can be reproduced and measured fairly easy.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Series Cap Scavange
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2016, 04:03:56 PM »

 

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