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Author Topic: Graham Gunderson's Energy conference presentation Most impressive and mysterious  (Read 193072 times)

k4zep

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And fwiw I was able to find the "first light" testing image of the completed system with its receiver, lighting up an incandescent bulb.

First done by Hertz in 1887, spark gap transmitter, same wire loop receiver. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Early+demonstration+of+RF+waves&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPm_jU543OAhWSMx4KHQ1FCvsQ_AUICCgB&biw=1280&bih=656&dpr=4#imgrc=qSY4blM-XYKe9M%3A

Nothing new, nice workmanship I might say, no instrumentation though. 

Ben K4ZEP

TinselKoala

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TK, your a comedian!.  ;D If he had a schematic, he wouldn't need your help!

Ben K4ZEP

I'm glad you think I'm a comedian, but I'm not being funny here, at least not intentionally. Nor am I a mind reader. Slow down and take a deep breath. Of course if he _had_ a complete schematic he would not need my help. But he doesn't, he is trying to draw one from looking at the breadboard.

Quote from: Spokane1

Anyway, how good are you at TTL? I have one IC on the logic board that I can't identify (yet). Do you have enough experience to know what chip it should be by looking at the connected components? I don't.

He hasn't indicated which chip he can't identify and I can't tell what the connected components are from looking at the photo. Once he has drawn a schematic from the photo showing which chip is unidentified and which are known, plus all components he can identify, I might be able to help.

(One wonders why he doesn't just ask Gunderson what the chip is ...   :-\   )

TinselKoala

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First done by Hertz in 1887, spark gap transmitter, same wire loop receiver. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Early+demonstration+of+RF+waves&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPm_jU543OAhWSMx4KHQ1FCvsQ_AUICCgB&biw=1280&bih=656&dpr=4#imgrc=qSY4blM-XYKe9M%3A

Nothing new, nice workmanship I might say, no instrumentation though. 

Ben K4ZEP

Thanks... but wrong. Do you see a spark gap in my system? And this system is a near-field electromagnetic system that is precisely tuned, not a broadband RF system. Just about the only resemblance to a Hertzian system is the loop, which in my receiver system is actually a loosely coupled transformer secondary that forms part of a high-Q tank circuit.
It's not new, that much is true, but it's not Hertzian. The Hertzian system can generate a little spark in its receiver, that's all. I get constant AC and/or DC power out of mine, depending on the details of the receiver circuit. And it even works under water.

Lakes

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Wireless Submarine, batteries not required! :)

k4zep

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Thanks... but wrong. Do you see a spark gap in my system? And this system is a near-field electromagnetic system that is precisely tuned, not a broadband RF system. Just about the only resemblance to a Hertzian system is the loop, which in my receiver system is actually a loosely coupled transformer secondary that forms part of a high-Q tank circuit.
It's not new, that much is true, but it's not Hertzian. The Hertzian system can generate a little spark in its receiver, that's all. I get constant AC and/or DC power out of mine, depending on the details of the receiver circuit. And it even works under water.

Nah, You, RF generator, solid state. Hertz, RF generator spark gap. You, near field, Hertz, near field.  It's just a nice well engineered modern day demonstration,
using all the solid state goodies of Hertz device with application of later near field theory and resonance.  This is not new!
Besides not working under water(tested by dunking both units as shown in salt water, no orientation of receiver, output smoke, hydrogen and oxygen) I bet it works in space,
glows when held in your hand and will not electrocute you. PLUS it could charge your cell phone and toothbrush.
TK, your better than this, quit mucking with the less informed.  Sorry gang, I'm way off topic and I apologize. 
After the last few days of reading post, I need a bit of levity!  Back to Gunderson.

Ben K4ZEP

 

Spokane1

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@Spokane1:
Yes, I've done a bit of TTL design. I may be able to figure out the unknown chip if you can provide an actual schematic. No way I can do it from just looking at the photo of the breadboard.

Dear TK,

Thanks for the offer. I kind of thought that you up might be up on this sort of stuff. I didn't expect you to derive it from the photo. I'm going to draft it up and then we could have evaluated it. However, upon a further examination I found the right number it was a TS556. Now all of the IC's are identified. The next challenge is attempting to figure out what he was doing for his +5 volt regulator. I thought it was a 7805 and a transistor, but the connections don't make sense. Maybe you can take a stab at this from the photo.

Spokane1

Spokane1

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(One wonders why he doesn't just ask Gunderson what the chip is ...   :-\   )

Dear TK,

On the Monday after the convention I phoned up Graham and asked for a list of the components that I was intending to order as to get a head start on this replication. That is when he dropped the bomb on me that he had changed his mind on the Open Source Idea. He didn't tell me what the part numbers were and instead describe his personal reasons for changing his mind. I left it there.

I'm not going to ask him again. 

We have what we have with his permission. I know its way less than what everybody here wants, especially since I made the OU claims (Not Graham).

This is not the best circumstance to do a peer review of a potential breakthrough technology, but its a great opportunity for us builders to dig into new dreams.

Spokane1

k4zep

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Dear TK,

Thanks for the offer. I kind of thought that you up might be up on this sort of stuff. I didn't expect you to derive it from the photo. I'm going to draft it up and then we could have evaluated it. However, upon a further examination I found the right number it was a TS556. Now all of the IC's are identified. The next challenge is attempting to figure out what he was doing for his +5 volt regulator. I thought it was a 7805 and a transistor, but the connections don't make sense. Maybe you can take a stab at this from the photo.

Spokane1

Evening Spokane1,

Looks to me like a 7805 regulator boot straped with another transistor for further current capability, hence heatsink.  See:https://www.google.com/search?q=7805+regulator+with+bootstrap+higher+current+transistor&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjV-v_muI_OAhUFJx4KHZIlApEQ_AUICCgB&biw=1280&bih=656
and select images and a whole possie of schematics there.  It could be a voltage regulator or a constant current source, probably a voltage regulator.
Choose the circuit that matches what you got.  Is it possible the +12VDC feed for it is coming from the output board?

Ben
K4ZEP

k4zep

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Dear TK,

On the Monday after the convention I phoned up Graham and asked for a list of the components that I was intending to order as to get a head start on this replication. That is when he dropped the bomb on me that he had changed his mind on the Open Source Idea. He didn't tell me what the part numbers were and instead describe his personal reasons for changing his mind. I left it there.

I'm not going to ask him again. 

We have what we have with his permission. I know its way less than what everybody here wants, especially since I made the OU claims (Not Graham).

This is not the best circumstance to do a peer review of a potential breakthrough technology, but its a great opportunity for us builders to dig into new dreams.

Spokane1

Hi Spokane1

We have worked with a lot less!!!!!!!  Up and attum.

Ben K4ZEP

Spokane1

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For those of you wanting to focus on the H-Bridge here is a quick close up of the gate driver circuits.

TinselKoala

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Nah, You, RF generator, solid state. Hertz, RF generator spark gap. You, near field, Hertz, near field.  It's just a nice well engineered modern day demonstration,
using all the solid state goodies of Hertz device with application of later near field theory and resonance.  This is not new!
Besides not working under water(tested by dunking both units as shown in salt water, no orientation of receiver, output smoke, hydrogen and oxygen) I bet it works in space,
glows when held in your hand and will not electrocute you. PLUS it could charge your cell phone and toothbrush.
TK, your better than this, quit mucking with the less informed.  Sorry gang, I'm way off topic and I apologize. 
After the last few days of reading post, I need a bit of levity!  Back to Gunderson.

Ben K4ZEP

 

Yes, it could charge cellphones and toothbrushes, what's Hertzian about that? Did I miss his YT demonstration of charging a toothbrush using a spark gap transmitter? Link, please.
Yes, the receiver works under water (demonstrated in YT video). Yes, if I bothered to waterproof certain components on the power input side the transmitter would work under salt water.  Yes, if salt water is used it can electrolyze it and produce flammable gas (demonstrated in YT video.) Yes, it is orientation-sensitive (another clue to its non-Hertzian character). Yes, it still works, glows when held in my hand, or even when put around my head (demonstrated in still photos and YT video). No, it will not electrocute you unless you use it to charge up a capacitor to high voltage (demonstrated in YT video). Yes, although I have not tested it "in space" it works in vacuum on Earth. It operates at RF frequencies but works by electromagnetic inductive coupling, like a transformer system in the near field, not like a radio system in the far field.
No, it's not new, and no, it's not Hertzian. The solid state system does not emulate a spark gap, it creates a balanced pure sine wave with very little harmonic content (demonstrated in YT videos).

So, whatever, dude, laugh all you like, I'm glad I amuse you. After all, I do all of this for my own amusement. Back to Gunderson.

TinselKoala

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For those of you wanting to focus on the H-Bridge here is a quick close up of the gate driver circuits.

That image doesn't really help very much. I certainly can't tell what's going on there except that there are a lot of ferrite beads in use. Good luck "reverse engineering" from that picture!


For comparison purposes, here's an H-bridge system from my own work. This uses a TL494 for the basic clock signal, which is then used to drive a BJT H-bridge current amplifier, which in turn drives two trifilar toroidal gate drive transformers, which drive the gates of the main high-power mosfet H-bridge.  The main H-bridge can be used in either full-bridge or half-bridge mode, selected by the small toggle switch at lower right.

TinselKoala

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Evening Spokane1,

Looks to me like a 7805 regulator boot straped with another transistor for further current capability, hence heatsink.  See:https://www.google.com/search?q=7805+regulator+with+bootstrap+higher+current+transistor&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjV-v_muI_OAhUFJx4KHZIlApEQ_AUICCgB&biw=1280&bih=656
and select images and a whole possie of schematics there.  It could be a voltage regulator or a constant current source, probably a voltage regulator.
Choose the circuit that matches what you got.  Is it possible the +12VDC feed for it is coming from the output board?

Ben
K4ZEP
It sort of makes sense to me. If the non-heatsinked thing is a 7805, its output is not connected to the heatsinked-thing, so I doubt if it is a constant-current source or current booster. The heatsinked thing might be another VR to step down a higher voltage for the input to the 7805, if the rail that I have marked "12V" is in fact a higher voltage. My annotations on the photo indicate  my guesses as to what I've been able to figure out.
Could the heatsinked thing be the regulator and the non-heatsinked thing be the current-boosting transistor? But even that doesn't really make sense because only the pin3 of the non-heatsinked thing is connected to the output rail. One would expect both the regulator output and the PNP transistor collector to be connected to the output.

TinselKoala

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Oh, I forgot to annotate the signal path. The BNC on the right looks like a signal input for the 74ac14 hex inverter. It looks like the signal is going through 2 gates on one side and 3 gates on the other side, so the two brown wires coming from the 74ac14 are carrying cleaned up and squared-off in-phase and out-of-phase versions of the input signal. Where they go? I dunno, maybe to the H-bridge gate drivers. The other BNC at the top.... I dunno.

k4zep

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That image doesn't really help very much. I certainly can't tell what's going on there except that there are a lot of ferrite beads in use. Good luck "reverse engineering" from that picture!


For comparison purposes, here's an H-bridge system from my own work. This uses a TL494 for the basic clock signal, which is then used to drive a BJT H-bridge current amplifier, which in turn drives two trifilar toroidal gate drive transformers, which drive the gates of the main high-power mosfet H-bridge.  The main H-bridge can be used in either full-bridge or half-bridge mode, selected by the small toggle switch at lower right.

Hi TK,
After all the "Hurrumph Hurumph I gave you on the other device, this looks like some pretty good work there.  Excellent.  I apologize for getting a little bit flippant at time.  Your one of the good ones out there!

Ben K4ZEP