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Author Topic: H2 to 2H - what are the options?  (Read 4983 times)

Offline dieter

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H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« on: June 04, 2016, 10:11:31 PM »
After reading several texts about the discrepancy in the energy equilibrium between dissociation of H2 to 2H and recombination of 2H to H2 ( potential COP of 1000 ), by Nicholas Moller, William Lyne (occult ether physics), as well as Irving Langmuir (who desperately tried to explain away the unexplicable yet undeniable energy gain), I became rather interested in the subject matter but soon realized that there isn't much information. Furthermore, since the "1912 paper" of Langmuir there wasn't much research on the subject, until recently. The few information is spread all over in tiny bits, so I hope we can list here the possibilities we got today in order to dissociate molecular hydrogen H2 into atomic hydrogen (2) H1, which burns several times hotter. Of course we want to spent as little energy as possible to dissociate.

We would also prefer materials that are cheap and easily obtainable. And non poisonous.

Langmuir states, dissociation is caused by high temperatures (2000-3000 K). Atomic hydrogen welding was based on this phenomenon. Normal hydrogen was blown trough an electrical arc between 2 Thungsten electrodes. The flame had about 10 to 20 times the energy compared to one without the arc.

"Cold fusion" from Pons/Fleischmann seems to be based in the same principle, although there the process happens within the plasma in the water. In how much dissociation takes place may be hard to measure, which could be the reason why the repeatability of CF OU is often disputed.

Then I read in Lynes' book, Langmuir referred to a method using lead-mercury alloy (lead amalgam) for both electrodes, which produced H1 directly in electrolysis (with O/H seperation trough 2 tubes, one for each electrode, bottom open in the electrolyte. In an other, unreleated document I read gallium was used to substitute mercury in some electrochemical way. So I wonder if a gallium-lead alloy may work. Does anyone of you have any information on that?

Franco also mentioned several methods, including alpha-radiation (radioactive), as well as several methods involving Thungsten electrodes (which I would prefer to avoid for $ reasons). Although, Langmuir also wrote, at least parts of the dissociation must have been caused by exposing H2 to the Surface of Thungsten and not by heat only...

Then there is also the extreme Palladium hydrogen adsorbtion feature, which may somehow be utilized. Maybe let its surface adsorb molecules and then shock the metal with HV pulses, just strong enough that one H atom "dropps off"?

There may also be ways by using other radiation wavelengths, and I guess it would be most effective with frequencies that resonate with the atomic size of the molecules. There may be sweet spots accross the entire spectrum, harmonics  which would shatter the molecule surgically like the high C of an opera singer can smash a wineglass with a standing wave.

I've read in Patrick Kellys encyclopedia 500kHz can heat water quickly, which is interesting, corelating with Ainslies 555-heater. And of cource there are the standard microwave oven frequencies at 2.5 GHz if I'm right, bringing Water / H into high stress. Certainly it wouldn't take 1.5 kW to bombard only a thin tube with H2 streaming trough.

So, it would be very helpful if you add to this thread whatever you know about the various options we have right now in the dissociation of H2 into 2* H1.

Thank you

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline pomodoro

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Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2016, 05:24:16 AM »
Look up Wood's discharge tube. It seems to be the favorite way to make the stuff.


Offline franco malgarini

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Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2016, 08:57:00 AM »
You can use magnets:

Offline dieter

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Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2016, 03:27:17 AM »
Thank you very much, the both of you!

I have found some interesting paper titled "characterization of hydrogen dissociation over aluminium-doped zinc oxide..."

Seemingly such surfaces have the ability to seperate hydroxils (O-H +ZnH) from ZnO+H2 which (the O-H) have lower bonds than H-H dimers.

Then I stumbled upon something that is just the sort of thing I love:

Duncan s' Paradox

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan's_Paradox

and I quote:
Quote
In 2014 Duncan's temperature paradox was experimentally realized, utilizing hydrogen dissociation on high-temperature transition metals (tungsten and rhenium). Ironically, these experiments support the predictions of the paradox and provide laboratory evidence for second law breakdown.[3] These results are corroborated by other experiments that demonstrate anomalous (and differential) levels of hydrogen dissociation on heated transition metals;[4][5][6][7][8] additional theoretical support can be found in the theory of epicatalysis.[9]

Wow. Enjoy.

I'll look into that magnet dissociation thing. Couldn't find much about the Wood s' discharge tube so far. Is that the one inside dehumidifiers?

As a side project I'll try to implement the duncan s' paradox in a hydrogen-filled radiometer.


Offline franco malgarini

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Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2016, 11:22:20 AM »
Cells in series for both H2 and H1

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2016, 11:22:20 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline dieter

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Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2016, 04:01:19 PM »
Thanks a lot. Looks very simple.

Offline franco malgarini

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Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2016, 04:29:08 PM »
Photomagnetolysis

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2016, 04:29:08 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline dieter

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Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2016, 04:49:59 PM »
Thanks again. I'm kind of stuck tho, can you give me some more info on the principle? Maybe a link to a text that has the basics of the magnetic h2 interaction?

How do I drive the two coils of the h1 /o1 outlet? (ac or dc, pulse, waveform, frequency, duty time etc? are they magneticly mirrored to eachother?)

Do you think 4 MOT magnets would work?

Thanks.

Offline franco malgarini

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Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2016, 05:00:21 PM »

Offline dieter

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Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2016, 05:10:46 PM »
Thanks. If the coils are not pulsed, I could use permanent ring magnets instead?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2016, 05:10:46 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline pomodoro

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Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2016, 05:12:13 PM »
Prof Malgarini, before this chap spends time and money, does your device actually work or is it an untested invention?
Personally I'd use a glow discharge is a metal tube. The metal will act ad a catalyst for the recombination. All this placed in a adiabatic calorimeter for heat measurements. A fair bit of work to get it right.

Offline franco malgarini

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Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2016, 05:45:15 PM »
Recombination can take place in the combustion chamber of car engine:

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2008041241


Offline ourbobby

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Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2016, 02:15:13 PM »
You can use magnets:

Hello Franco,
                    Your drawing is not that clear to me. Is it necessary to pulse the magnets or pulse the charge across the plates? Or both or only one of either? I think magnets, if strong enough can influence the Lorenze force of the current, and can cause an increase in efficiency of output and also create directional current flows within the dissociation chamber. We could be talking >3.0T as a requirement for stationary magnets. Neodymium are only 1.9T, and iron cored coils will not exceed 2.3T.

Are your magnets the dark circular items in your photo?

Thanks

Offline franco malgarini

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Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2016, 03:40:46 PM »

Photomagnetolysis is better , simple and economical:

4 magnets  80 euro
plexiglass    20 euro
china laser   20 euro

Total  120 euro

All can build it...


Offline ourbobby

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Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2016, 08:12:03 AM »
Photomagnetolysis is better , simple and economical:

4 magnets  80 euro
plexiglass    20 euro
china laser   20 euro

Total  120 euro

All can build it...

Hello Franco,
                    That's what I like to see -Optimism. I think, a few simple pencil sketches, reminiscent of my early artistic attempts is not enough to encourage multiple attempts with your wondrous device. You have left out the time and effort trying to work out the configuration of the device. Perhaps, if you provided a clearer explanation of your intentions, we could then try to replicate and confirm workability. Constantly just supplying references to other sources that end in the deep pit of obscurity is not a design brief for your wondrous device.

You need to provide a tangible design that can be readily understood complete with any specific circuitry. At present what I see is magnets in the wrong direction, where I might expect that the Lorenze force would be part of the final concept for dissociation, given its ability to thrust electrons during the dissociation process. and intimations of tubes and chinese patent references that no-one seems to be able to locate: which, incidentally looks like it might be MHD based.

Thanks


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: H2 to 2H - what are the options?
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2016, 08:12:03 AM »

 

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