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Author Topic: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device  (Read 17043 times)

Offline Dog-One

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2016, 03:16:19 AM »
Meanwhile, 007 has achieved 3rd party validation, cashed investors checks and signed non-disclosure agreements.  You have heard and seen all you will ever get from him.

So, if Russ cannot at least replicate the results or possibly/accidentally build a self runner.  The game is over.  Time to look elsewhere.

Seems like the same story over and over.  I'm really starting to doubt if an OpenSource device will ever see the light of day.  The guys that really know their stuff aren't talking, leaving only the guys that aren't afraid to try, stumbling.  And even if one of these guys is successful, there's no way it will ever be replicated.  Plenty pitiful.

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2016, 03:16:19 AM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2016, 07:05:45 AM »
Actually, the people who _really_ know their stuff, the ones that are interested anyway, are telling you that these things do NOT work as claimed, they do NOT produce "overunity" in terms of more energy out than in, they will _never_ produce self-runners or power loads at greater efficiency than known ordinary techniques, and many of them (like Akula/Ruslan/Kapanadze; FTW QEG, etc.) are outright hoaxes, frauds and scams.


And if that "007" is the same one that I think he is, he has absolutely no credibility in these matters at all.


Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2016, 10:02:12 AM »
Actually, the people who _really_ know their stuff, the ones that are interested anyway, are telling you that these things do NOT work as claimed, they do NOT produce "overunity" in terms of more energy out than in, they will _never_ produce self-runners or power loads at greater efficiency than known ordinary techniques, and many of them (like Akula/Ruslan/Kapanadze; FTW QEG, etc.) are outright hoaxes, fraud's even and scams.


And if that "007" is the same one that I think he is, he has absolutely no credibility in these matters at all.
  Maybe and maybe not, I tend to think it's more like making order out of disorder. Henry Moray, Don Smith and Troy Reed and all true inventors.

The thing about energy is like a cake if I cut it into a 100 slices and share it at a cost of 1 % interest how can I expect a return if there is only one cake ? isn't energy the same ? explain that, if you can't create nor destroy energy some part of the equation is missing, try looking at something particles do all the time.

Offline Dog-One

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2016, 11:45:09 AM »
This is a long video best viewed when you can casually watch it in the background.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNgnHnXvjbw

As you will see, Russ has to his satisfaction replicated the intended effect--true power out > true power in.  His next goal is to understand the power factor relationships that are going on in this device/circuit and attempt to effectively find a way to harness the power that is actually circulating.

You will also notice he has some high quality power measuring instrumentation capable of resolving this mystery.  I would expect from his diligent research and learning we will soon get to the bottom of things, be that what they are.


Offline Dog-One

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2016, 10:12:15 PM »

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2016, 10:12:15 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2016, 12:02:11 AM »
I sampled both clips and I don't think there is anything there.  At 35:00 in the second clip Russ says that he has OU based on his input and output analog voltage and current meters but they can't account for power factor.  Meanwhile the DSO shot in the same video frame shows a power factor of possibly 0.699.  However every single power measurement being made by the DSO has a question mark after the numbers presumably indicating that the DSO is sensing that there is a problem with the sampling of the waveforms.  It looks like for the entire second half of the second clip the DSO is showing question marks.

I don't have all of the information because I am not watching the clips in their entirety and I may not be able to see attachments in Russ' forum thread and I mostly skimmed through the thread.  That being said, this is what I believe:

I don't think that a schematic of the Rodin coil has been published, and the exact electrical configuration of the coil may be unknown.  I don't think he has shown any schematics of his test setups or where his measurement probes are on his test setups.  That is a cardinal sin in the realm of electronics testing.  On top of that this is the first time ever that he is doing any of this stuff and is feeling it out as he goes along.  Then of course he is a family man with a full time job and he is doing this all late at night and doesn't have time to properly document himself.

With all of his good intentions, and his limited time, right now it would appear that he has nothing and unfortunately it looks like he has picked up the bad habits of TheOldScientist.  The only way he could get even close to making a case would be to follow up on the live streaming clips with a short five-minute clip showing the measurements backed up with a full schematic showing the test points.

MileHigh

Offline tinman

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2016, 12:57:18 AM »
Watching the first clip,i notice at 2:13:35,he mentions that he is using AC coupling on the scope.
Is Russ making the same mistake as EMJ here?-using AC coupling to make power measurements.


Brad

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2016, 12:57:18 AM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2016, 01:00:00 AM »
Quote
Actually, the people who _really_ know their stuff, the ones that are interested anyway, are telling you that these things do NOT work as claimed, they do NOT produce "overunity" in terms of more energy out than in, they will _never_ produce self-runners or power loads at greater efficiency than known ordinary techniques, and many of them (like Akula/Ruslan/Kapanadze; FTW QEG, etc.) are outright hoaxes, fraud's even and scams.

Yes, many of them are scams. And the term Overunity may also be unlogical.

But there are definitely selfrunners. Basicly it is all about the search for a new and convenient energy source. It does not matter if we, at some point in time, will become able to explain where the energy comes from, seen from the POV of presence it is free energy, overunity if you want. Eg. a crystal radio set. Or beta decay, which people couldn't explain and seriously begun to question the validity of the law of conservation of energy. Or why helium does not freeze at 0K. The casimir force and zero point energy flux. We're just beginning to realize that there are endless amounts of energy all around us. Reality is not constructed after our "laws", but our "laws" are shortsighted observations of the fraction of reality we glimpsed so far.

Before it's always magic, unbelievable or overunity. But after its introduction to our daily lifes it's simply science, and tk etc. will say "oh I knew that, I always did."

Offline Dog-One

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2016, 02:51:58 AM »
Yes Brad,

Russ did start out using AC coupling and I told him directly to never do that again unless he only intends to see an AC signal riding atop a highly DC biased waveform.  It's possible the AC coupling is why the scope is showing a question mark since it has to assume the waveform is zero centered.

@MileHigh,

The attachments at OSE do discuss the schematic, but basically it is two 12 conductor bundled windings arranged as (semi litz wire) shown below.  One of them is L1 (input) and the other L2 (output).  Currently, Russ doesn't have the full 50/50 split as 007 did because he was worried he would fry the amplifier with the DC ohms being below 4.  I think he only has two wires used as the "copper core" and the other ten running zig-zag.


The major challenge comes into play from this point forward in figuring out what 007 had done to the output PSU that was engineered to accept 2000 volts input.  My understanding is it uses a mass of diodes for some purpose, which is why Russ is now using LED lamps instead of filament lamps.  Russ was told the filament lamps simply will not work.  Maybe Brad can walk him through how to make an effective light-box and do power recovery that way until we understand the configuration of the power supply.

All-in-all, this is becoming a rather challenging project and may take many more weeks to uncover whatever may be hidden, if anything is hidden.  For the moment I cannot isolate any significant difference between using a Rodin Coil and some other air core transformer.  I've spent a lot of time with the Ruslan and Daly devices--they still seem to have a little magic associated with them and I suspect this Rodin Coil device will be no different.

To be quite honest, Tinsel may turn out to be right yet again.  And if so, he can chalk this one up to knowledge and experience.  I'm not too proud to admit I was wrong.  I hope though Tinsel & Milehigh are not too proud either should Russ and others find some sweet spot.  Let's give Russ the freedom to explore and help him when known mistakes are being made, unless any of you all have a better idea.


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2016, 03:28:30 AM »
Dog-One:

Okay if I understand you then from the diagram L1 is say six wires in parallel all part of the Litz wire twisting.  That really just means that the six wires look like one conductor, and the skin effect is reduced at high frequencies.  I am honestly not sure at what frequency the skin effect comes into play but I assume that there are charts out there that show skin effect vs. wire diameter as it affects the wire resistance per unit length.

For L2, you show an even number of wires.  That would cause total cancellation of the inductance, so I will assume that it is an odd number of wires.  When you factor in the cancellation effects, then L2 ends up looking like a single pass through the "bird's nest" but with five or seven times the amount of resistance compared to a single pass.  Let's assume for the sake of argument that there are five wire passes through the bird's nest.

To summarize, let's say that a single strand of wire has a resistance of "R."  That means that L1 makes a single pass through the bird's nest with a resistance of R/6.  L2 makes a single effective pass through the bird's nest with a resistance of 5R.

So, between L1 and L2 you simply have a 1:1 transformer, but the wire resistance on the two sides of the transformer is vastly different.

This is what my rational analysis is telling me about the Rodin coil when you strip it down to its bare essentials.  It's just a 1:1 transformer with a certain amount of inductance per coil, and an asymmetrical amount of resistance when you compare the two coils.

For the amplifier, I think it is a bass amplifier for a bass guitar.  The amplifier will probably tolerate a DC resistance of 4 ohms but here is where it looks like Russ is off track because presumably he will be working more with both impedance and resistance.  If he uses the Rodin coll as a 1:1 transformer and has a load higher than four ohms and excites the coil at a high enough frequency then the DC resistance of the primary should not be an issue.  If he just drives the coil with no load for a test, then as long as the frequency is high enough the impedance will be higher than four ohms.

As far as the amplifier itself goes it depends on what type of amplifier it is.  I am not familiar with all of the different amplifier classes so it's hard for me to comment.  However, knowing that it is an amplifier for a bass guitar, I am going to assume that it is very tolerant of reactive loads and will not flinch when the load pushes current back into the amplifier.  In that sense the amplifier is acting like an AC ideal voltage source.

For the output power supply accepting 2000 volts input, not sure what that is all about.  However, it sounds to me like a simple step-down transformer would come in handy here.

As far as a load goes in general, I would think that using big power resistors would be the smartest route to go.  This assumes that they will look like a nearly pure resistance when driven at a reasonably low AC frequency.

Russ indeed needs some time and people should not push him, he has a full life on his plate.  At the end, let's hope he presents good data.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2016, 03:28:30 AM »
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Offline Dog-One

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2016, 05:41:58 AM »
Okay if I understand you then from the diagram L1 is say six wires in parallel all part of the Litz wire twisting.  That really just means that the six wires look like one conductor, and the skin effect is reduced at high frequencies.  I am honestly not sure at what frequency the skin effect comes into play but I assume that there are charts out there that show skin effect vs. wire diameter as it affects the wire resistance per unit length.

Yes, each bundle contains 12 strands of 23 AWG mag wire, approximately 30 feet in length.  The bundle is twisted at a ratio of one turn per 1.5 inch.


For L2, you show an even number of wires.  That would cause total cancellation of the inductance, so I will assume that it is an odd number of wires.  When you factor in the cancellation effects, then L2 ends up looking like a single pass through the "bird's nest" but with five or seven times the amount of resistance compared to a single pass.  Let's assume for the sake of argument that there are five wire passes through the bird's nest.

And that assumption was identical to mine at first, but incorrect.  There is an even, symmetrical distribution of the wires and one would think as you have stated, a complete cancellation.  But as we can see, this is not the case.  How induction is happening in this coil is beyond my understanding.  I can guess as well as anyone else, but the only semi-reasonable one I can come up with is that there are two forms of induction happening here--magnetic and electrostatic.  My guess here is that one of them must propagate faster than the other, or be dominant to the other.

I also do not understand the purpose of the "copper core"--even count of strands, half of the total, shunted together at each end.  What this does?  No idea.  You may note when Russ was initially playing with these wires, he managed to rapidly heat the coil up, which is why he now has a thermal probe attached for monitoring.


For the amplifier, I think it is a bass amplifier for a bass guitar.  The amplifier will probably tolerate a DC resistance of 4 ohms but here is where it looks like Russ is off track because presumably he will be working more with both impedance and resistance.  If he uses the Rodin coll as a 1:1 transformer and has a load higher than four ohms and excites the coil at a high enough frequency then the DC resistance of the primary should not be an issue.  If he just drives the coil with no load for a test, then as long as the frequency is high enough the impedance will be higher than four ohms.

As far as the amplifier itself goes it depends on what type of amplifier it is.  I am not familiar with all of the different amplifier classes so it's hard for me to comment.  However, knowing that it is an amplifier for a bass guitar, I am going to assume that it is very tolerant of reactive loads and will not flinch when the load pushes current back into the amplifier.  In that sense the amplifier is acting like an AC ideal voltage source.

The good news here is this particular amp seems to have an accurate clipping indicator that Russ is using to prevent overload, though he has mentioned at least twice now that he can smell something getting hot in his little work space.  He specifically purchased this amplifier on the basis 007 had the same kind.


For the output power supply accepting 2000 volts input, not sure what that is all about.  However, it sounds to me like a simple step-down transformer would come in handy here.

We know this custom power supply is some sort of switching power supply with a high input capability.  How it differs from an off-the-shelf Universal Input PSU is unknown at this time.


As far as a load goes in general, I would think that using big power resistors would be the smartest route to go.  This assumes that they will look like a nearly pure resistance when driven at a reasonably low AC frequency.

I can't say.  007 told Russ he needed to run LEDs for the output load or the special PSU.  He specifically mentioned diodes.   I was thinking if you can make a voltage multiplier with diodes and caps, can you change things around some and make a voltage divider from those same components as well?  Surely 007 gave Russ some kind of hint by mentioning diodes.  We'll have to poke around and find a lead somewhere before diving into this aspect I suspect.


Russ indeed needs some time and people should not push him, he has a full life on his plate.  At the end, let's hope he presents good data.

He's been pushing himself hard to this point and will be going on vacation for a week in a couple of days.  I know he really wanted to have enough under his belt to chew on in his mind while on vacation.  I think he has mostly accomplished that, best I can tell.  He's open for comment and criticism as long as it is constructive.  Probably best to not overwhelm him and just take a small piece at a time and give him a chance to make the needed corrections.  I think this is actually a really good OpenSource research project.  Everyone should be able to learn a little something if they have an interest and are willing to accept none of us know it all, but understand together we can know an awful lot.

Offline tinman

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2016, 05:46:07 AM »
And some more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrH0pfOUSRI

Interesting that the analog meters agree with the scope,showing more out than in.
But how accurate are those analog meters under those conditions?

Do you have a direct link to the thread in question Dog-One?
I probably missed it


Brad


Offline tinman

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2016, 05:54:52 AM »
Yes, each bundle contains 12 strands of 23 AWG mag wire, approximately 30 feet in length.  The bundle is twisted at a ratio of one turn per 1.5 inch.


And that assumption was identical to mine at first, but incorrect.  There is an even, symmetrical distribution of the wires and one would think as you have stated, a complete cancellation.  But as we can see, this is not the case.  How induction is happening in this coil is beyond my understanding.  I can guess as well as anyone else, but the only semi-reasonable one I can come up with is that there are two forms of induction happening here--magnetic and electrostatic.  My guess here is that one of them must propagate faster than the other, or be dominant to the other.

I also do not understand the purpose of the "copper core"--even count of strands, half of the total, shunted together at each end.  What this does?  No idea.  You may note when Russ was initially playing with these wires, he managed to rapidly heat the coil up, which is why he now has a thermal probe attached for monitoring.


The good news here is this particular amp seems to have an accurate clipping indicator that Russ is using to prevent overload, though he has mentioned at least twice now that he can smell something getting hot in his little work space.  He specifically purchased this amplifier on the basis 007 had the same kind.


We know this custom power supply is some sort of switching power supply with a high input capability.  How it differs from an off-the-shelf Universal Input PSU is unknown at this time.


I can't say.  007 told Russ he needed to run LEDs for the output load or the special PSU.  He specifically mentioned diodes.   I was thinking if you can make a voltage multiplier with diodes and caps, can you change things around some and make a voltage divider from those same components as well?  Surely 007 gave Russ some kind of hint by mentioning diodes.  We'll have to poke around and find a lead somewhere before diving into this aspect I suspect.


He's been pushing himself hard to this point and will be going on vacation for a week in a couple of days.  I know he really wanted to have enough under his belt to chew on in his mind while on vacation.  I think he has mostly accomplished that, best I can tell.  He's open for comment and criticism as long as it is constructive.  Probably best to not overwhelm him and just take a small piece at a time and give him a chance to make the needed corrections.  I think this is actually a really good OpenSource research project.  Everyone should be able to learn a little something if they have an interest and are willing to accept none of us know it all, but understand together we can know an awful lot.

The fact that the coils are wound so as they should cancel out,but instead produce a great deal of power,is an indication that normal transformer action is not taking place here.

Perhaps some were to quick to  dismiss this as not being anything special.


Brad

Offline Dog-One

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2016, 06:06:56 AM »


Offline tinman

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2016, 01:19:12 AM »
The thread link to OSE is:
http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=2680.msg37306

So upon reading the thread,it would seem that Russ has the wires all running in one direction,and not back and forth. So this would mean no cancellation of magnetic fields around the coil.
In saying that,it is hard to get any sort of clear answer as to how the two coils are wound--some say one thing,and others say another thing.


Brad

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Re: Marko Rodin Coil -- 007 Device
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2016, 01:19:12 AM »

 

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