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Author Topic: After all the Lorentz Force (of Lenz' drag) is a force...  (Read 5824 times)

Offline dieter

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Re: After all the Lorentz Force (of Lenz' drag) is a force...
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2016, 01:45:51 AM »
Thanks everybody for your contributions to this thread. Please excuse me for being around so rarely.

Personally, I prefer to simplify things as much as possible. I imagine electrons as little refugees, hunted by magnetic invasion. As little dudes who love their homes so they return back home when the magnetic invaders back off.

Once you realize how simple it is, it becomes much easier to think out of the box.

Flux density is important, but I'd gladly give it away for inverted Lorentz force. However, within a small space both may be possible simultanously.

This experiment is as simple as amazing:
When you move a permanent magnet PM away from a coil L, you'll get, say, negative voltage. If you approach it, you'll get positive voltage. Now fix the PM at a certain distance, eg. 1inch, above the L. This gives you a static field in L, a bias.
Take a disc of iron, same radius as PM, eg. 1/8 inch thick, and put it between PM and L. The iron now becomes an instance of PM, showing the same polarity. But there's a big diffrence: If you move the Iron up, within the space between PM and L, the voltage is now positive, you move it down and get negative voltage. And yet, the iron disc is a copy of the PM. Think about it. Or even better, try it.

If we choose to limit our action to a small space between PM and L, we're getting both, high field strength and reversed Lorentz force.
Needless to say, the attraction of the disc by the PM can be nullified by mechanical compensation.

Implementing a rotating version might be trickier, as the polarity is no longer identical when approaching from the side. But I think it's still possible.

@Floor,
" ....
Also.... Some thing I have pondered is;  do two permanent magnet approaching one another (pole to
pole)  either attracting or repelling, induce electric currents each in the other ?  "

I think this depends on shape and conductivity. Two ring magnets of conducting material certainly do. And there are also eddy currents.

Regardless of whether PM or Coils, there is always the dilemma of selfinduction and recursive induction, but, in the end of the day, with every iteration this stuff gets weaker and weaker and therefor, what is really important is the first action and reaction. The action should be as effective as possible (field strength/flux density/chanche) and the reaction should be small or even better: reversed. (though that is considered impossible by "accepted theories")...

.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline shylo

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Re: After all the Lorentz Force (of Lenz' drag) is a force...
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2016, 11:16:30 AM »
and the reaction should be small or even better: reversed. (though that is considered impossible by "accepted theories")...

Hi Dieter, I think it would take more work to reverse this effect than it's worth.
Instead I'm catching this effect and using it to my advantage. Which in itself is actually reducing (not eliminating) it's negative affects.
artv


Offline dieter

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Re: After all the Lorentz Force (of Lenz' drag) is a force...
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2016, 01:31:21 PM »
Then you should really do the little experiment I just described.

I think it was Yogi Bear who said "50% is theory and 50% experimenting". Actually it may have been Albert Einstein, but Einstein, Yogi Bear, what's the diffrence.

I have just seen something that seems to be a rotational implementation of the principle on jl naudins' site.

Offline shylo

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Re: After all the Lorentz Force (of Lenz' drag) is a force...
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2016, 01:46:00 AM »
Regardless of how you make the field change, the point is , there is a positive field and a negative field.
Trying to only collect one of the fields negates the collection of its' opposite.
You can take your pick , but conventional methods only allow the collection of one.
I'm trying and having some progress in collecting both aspects of the coils' actions, To me that is where the answer lies.
artv


Offline dieter

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Re: After all the Lorentz Force (of Lenz' drag) is a force...
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2016, 07:41:04 PM »
It seems to me we're all talking about apples, oranges and what not, but nobody talks about the same thing. Furthermore, nobody seems to understand what the others say.

For instance, I didn't understand what you just said. Negative and positive fields? Do you mean electric or magnetic polarity ?

IMHO magnetic polarity is not the point, because you can perfectly induce a current by altering the field STRENGTH only while remaining completely within ONE magnetic pole. Certainly the efficiency of induction can be doubled when the field strength is altered from max. south over zero to max. north field strength, but that isn't neccessary.

I wonder if anybody actually performed the very simple experiment I described, and if anybody actually understood the impact of the phenomenon, namely the reversal of the socalled "Lenz drag" into a "Lenz drive", which is the logical conclusion, as well as the experimental observation,

or...

whether we are all just ignorant narcists who refuse to try to understand anything other than our own funky theory.

Nothing personal, but I spend trillions of hours, trying to learn how stoff works.

So I repeat this essence: induced current depends ONLY on the amount of magnetic field strength CHANGE. When the Strength increases then the coil repells the source. When the strength decreases then the coil attracts the source.

And I have explained how to arrange a magnet that causes a decreasing strength when it is approaching towards the coil, and an increasing strength when it is moved away from the coil.

I can cut the steak down to bites, but you guys must chew them by your own.

I'd love to discuss this, but I am getting tired of having the impression of not being understood, so most likely RIP thread :'( ... :-X

A similar approach BTW. came from Greg Watson with his RMOG, as far as I understand.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: After all the Lorentz Force (of Lenz' drag) is a force...
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2016, 07:41:04 PM »
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