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Author Topic: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)  (Read 37585 times)

Offline picowatt

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #135 on: May 04, 2016, 09:36:18 PM »
Guys,

Did you read what he posted.  He has both scopes isolated from mains ground and both scopes isolated from each other.  He will NOT be creating a short from one side of the AC to the other side of the AC.

Of the list of bad things that can happen, a dead short, spark, a blown circuit breaker and a brief WTF moment followed by the subsequent discovery of damage to equipment is the best case scenario.

Quote
The only real danger will be if he touches both scope cases at the same time as most scopes do have the ground side of the probe tied to the case of the scope.

That's exactly right, there is a very real danger to life and limb.

If you have been following his posts, you would be aware of what he is wanting to do and his limited understanding of  how and why the AC line is wired as it is.  Having one of the scopes, its inverter, and its battery at line potential in close proximity to another scope, inverter, and battery at the neutral or opposing line potential is just asking for trouble. 

One look at the posted photo of his bench setup should be cause for extreme concern...

PW

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #135 on: May 04, 2016, 09:36:18 PM »

Offline wattsup

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #136 on: May 04, 2016, 10:12:59 PM »
@PW and all

Still at work but will be home tonight.

My scopes are both floating since each one is driven by it's own car battery and its own inverter so there is no danger in blowing the equipment. 

The reason I am going straight to mains with these floating probes is to remove any possible excuses of using a Variac or any step-down transformer as being a hindrance from actually using the real neutral line. I fully understand the danger but have done some quick tests last night and there is no adverse effects. As long as you do not touch two terminals with your hands and this is why I am employing SM's one hand technique. The probe and ground can now go on either the hot or neutral without any problems.

I also have a direct ground line that I had put in the backyard a few years ago which is a 1/2" by 8' long solid copper rod that I planted vertically 10' deep so the top is 2 feet below the surface. I have a copper line going from there to my bench to also test the differences between the mains neutral and a true Earth ground. I already saw something that I will video as curious and am sure will have some of you scratching your heads to explain it. I don't have an answer as of yet.

I do not suggest anyone do this because yes, there is an element of danger but I am perfectly confident of my handling skills otherwise I would not do it. I know my limits and also know when to ask questions that others may be more experienced to answer, hence my question about how the scope derives the differential sine wave with a probe and ground. I need an official EE explanation as this will be part of my overall analysis later on. The only other variable is the added task of making a video which will require some additional attention that must not detract me from the proper handling. But I think I will be OK.

Thanks for the concern. I will be back soon but on the JT thread so it will again become useful and free this one for mechanical resonance works which is again a real treat for the mind.

wattsup


Offline wattsup

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #137 on: May 04, 2016, 10:23:26 PM »
@PW

Just saw your post and thanks. I will add a thick piece of wood between the two scopes event though the top one is plastic with plastic feet but just in case. I will also wear some gloves and make a point of not touching the lower scope chassis. hahahahahahahaha

wattsup


Offline citfta

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #138 on: May 05, 2016, 03:49:39 PM »
Hi wattsup,

I don't see where anyone answered your questions about a scope.  I am not an EE but I have used scopes for over 40 years and even from time to time had to repair one.  If I understand your question correctly you want to know how a scope displays the signal on the screen.  The old analogue scopes are the easiest to understand so we will start with them.   As you are already aware the ground clip of your probe is connected to the chassis and ground side of the amplifying circuit.  This just becomes a reference point to use as a convenient place to compare the signal to.  With your scope floating as you have done this reference point is entirely relative to everything else.  This allows you to make measurements that are NOT referenced to ground.

In simple terms if we wanted to measure the voltage on a 12 volt battery with a scope if we connect the ground clip to the negative post we would see 12 volts positive when the signal side of the probe was connected to the positive post.  If we connect the ground clip to the positive post then we would see a negative 12 volts on the signal side.  Whatever we see on the signal side is in relation to where the ground clip is connected.

I am not sure how much further you need information but we will go a little farther.  The signal on the probe is fed to an amplifier that the sends the signal on to the deflection plates of the crt to cause the trace to move up and down according to the signal on the probe.
A digital scope doesn't actually display the signal directly like the analogue scope.  Instead it takes very tiny very short samples of the signal and then plots the curve on the screen.  These short samples allow the math functions to have something to calculate.

The simplest way to think of a scope is that it is just a voltmeter with a visual display so you can see changing voltages and complex waveforms.

If I haven't answered you questions please explain again what it is you are trying to understand.

Take care,
Carroll

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #139 on: May 06, 2016, 02:18:48 AM »
Hey Watts

Is there resonance in your experiment? If so, you can make another thread on this board on that? Just that this thread is working with mechanical resonance. Dont want to thicken it up with other things.

If it is on this board, it will be moderated at your request if needed. Just ask Brad or me if there are any problems. ;D

Mags

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #139 on: May 06, 2016, 02:18:48 AM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #140 on: May 06, 2016, 03:14:40 PM »
@tinman

Sorry again for off topic. I should not have raised the scope question here but will just respond to @citfta quickly. I just hate opening new threads but maybe it would deserve a thread indeed.

@citfta

Yes I understand that basic function but needed to know if there is a specific equation that the scope resolves from the values it receives from the probe and ground. I will start a new thread this weekend on AC and will bring up this question again since the scope does in fact use the AC neutral in every measurement. Thanks for your response.

But here is one small crumb for thought. If AC is alternating current between the hot and neutral, then how is the scope able to measure steady potentials and derive them when the scope ground is actually an AC neutral that is supposed to be alternating during half of every one cycle? If that neutral half cycle is energizing the scope itself at every half cycle for it to function then how can that same neutral, now become an impartial probe ground? Ouch - brain squeeze. Constructs should never surpass logic.

@Mags

No I am not doing anything with mechanical resonance these days because my plate is rather full as it is. I will eventually do some resonance tests but I am planning to use only a 1 inch length of wire as a secondary and create micro movements around that wire. This will be when I get deeper into Spin Conveyance where if you consider any device that produces any form of output to a load, the last inch of wire before the load is conveying all the potential effects of the device to the load so all the activity in that 1 inch of wire is really the final effect that is transmitted to the load. I would like to see if there is a way to directly produce an outer effect around a 1 inch of wire to produce the energy going to the load and I am sure resonance will play heavily in this. If I can make the dogs swing their heads left and right in that 1 inch of wire, why should I need a complete coil? But I am not there yet. But actually in SC, even primary to secondary resonance in a coil is mechanical resonance because it considers the energy to be physically conveyed and not electron flow based. 

Consider what I suggested in my post about your secondary coil in the fork thingy. Sorter secondary turns will remove the energy quicker with less cancellation potential.

Ask yourself this: Why does a coil prefer that a magnet polarity pass beside it in a perpendicular direction? Why would non-physical electrons care about direction and then how can non-physical electrons then know or decide which direction to flow to create the potential difference in your coil? Now look at E=MC2. It's all mass in movement. Mass can move or it can spin or swing or sway, it's all still movement. But you still need the mass which is physical. So how can a physical magnet move and create a non-physical movement of electrons? Oh but electrons have mass. Well if electrons have mass then that coil needs to change its weight while it is energized because moving mass at speeds of near light has to create some level of inertia. OK, sorry going to deep but hope you get the point here. Constructs cannot surpass logic man. Logic will save you every time.

@picowatt

Just did my first video and will post it this weekend but on a new tread. I don't want it on the JT thread because of all the commotion.

wattsup


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #141 on: June 05, 2016, 04:24:34 AM »
After working with the bending strip and the tuning fork, Ive found I want more adjust abilities. So I am putting this wheel into the mix using magnets as the spring actors.

I wasnt fully convinced that increasing freq with the other 2 examples gave me more efficiency. So Tinman has me beat there. ;D

Will be making drive coils tomorrow that fit the distance requirements of the wheel hole positions. Im interested to see how the drive will be achieved facing the points I make in the vid below. Using 1 magnet on the wheel in attraction to the stator changes freq drastically depending on the distance of movement, something I didnt show on the vid. But the less the distance of the wheel back and forth, the higher the freq.  Wasnt expecting these issues.....

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDinA8Zm4LQ&feature=youtu.be

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #141 on: June 05, 2016, 04:24:34 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #142 on: June 05, 2016, 09:29:12 PM »
I figured out what might be the cause of the freq change while oscillating down.  Its my magnet config I believe. The mags should be face to face for the spring operation.
Going to work with it as is to see how it works with drive input. May be good, may not. Working on it now.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #143 on: June 06, 2016, 11:25:49 PM »
Ok. Just doing some simple input with a stator coil and mags on the wheel, Im finding the resonant freq point is not a sharp point of max resonance. Meaning it is a some what wide band of resonating frequencies it will operate at. It must be the magnetic spring config where the spring is not linear.  Like if center freq is 11hz, I can get it to ring at 9hz and 13hz, but those outer freq need a boost to get them going and then will follow the input. like if I stop it at 13hz without changing the input, it will need a higher input to get it going then lower the input to keep it going. Odd. And when i get it started by upping the input to get it going, it still seems to want to have the same back and forth throw after turning the input down, which may be interesting as I will discuss that later.

So my next step is to try using the Tesla Igniter pat circuit to see if it will run and find its own best freq.  Will use a reed to trigger timing. I will have my dc input with a large inductor in series with a diode and all series loop with a cap. The reed will discharge the cap into a low inductance drive coil as a pulse. Then after the pulse, reed still closed, the large inductor will charge up. Then when the reed opens, the large inductor will charge the cap to a high voltage for driver pulse.  So we want the cap discharge to be a very quick pulse and after the pulse is done, the reed still closed, the large inductor will limit the current of the drive coil as to not affect the wheel much till the reed opens.  Will be interesting to see if it works. And hopefully it will find the center resonant freq.

Mags

Offline Berto3

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #144 on: July 07, 2016, 01:34:47 AM »
Last winter I did some experiments with magnets in resonance in a linear tube. At both sides of the tube is a bounce magnet. The magnetic field of a  pulsed coil makes the magnet(s) moving back and forth. At a certain frequency the magnet is in resonance. My goal was to measure the output of the pick-up coil(s) when magnets in resonance. Conclusion: The very low frequence of 6 to 12 Hz needs an other structure of the pickup coils. When you want to benefit from the lower input power by resonance of the magnet, the output coils have to be many narrow coils in series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQpNqSUz8Ws
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ9JDuUPEKE

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #144 on: July 07, 2016, 01:34:47 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #145 on: September 15, 2016, 11:38:57 PM »

For what it's worth....here is my recommendation.  I really hope you see and can appreciate what this text and illustrations are suggesting. 


http://www.google.com/patents/US5625241


Regards

Got sidetracked with work. So hadnt posted in a bit.

I really like the way that the magnet arrangement helps to get all sides of the windings fluxed.   ;D

getting some time to do more here.

Mags
 

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #146 on: September 15, 2016, 11:58:16 PM »
All...

So far Im caught between the possibility of... Its either the resonant go between that caused the gain in voltage on the pickup coil compared to the drive coil, which are identical, or the different positioning of the mags per coil.

When adjusting the drive coil/mag position for best throw of the pendulum, and then positioning the pickup coil/mag, they were different slightly to get the results of higher voltage out than in. I will have to take some picks to show the difference. When the coil/mag positions are the same, the output voltage is less or close to equal. So it is possible that a motor and gen just need some differences in order to get a gain.

Another common sense thing that has me leaning toward the coil mag positions being the advantage is, if the mechanical resonance were the advantage maker, I might think that the advantage may be much greater than what I had gotten so far. Working on a test to eliminate the mech resonance portion of the coils and mags to see if there is the same advantage. If the advantage disappears in a large way, then the mech resonance is probably good to be included.

I had said in another thread that its possible that if we had 2 identical dc motors connected shaft to shaft, naturally we get less out than in. So there may have to be differences in how the 2 need to be reconfigured, with the same mags and coil winding specs, just in a bit different manner/config to gain an advantage.

Mags



Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mechanical Resonance (Projects)
« Reply #147 on: September 16, 2016, 12:04:10 AM »
What Im suggesting is this possibility....  Say we have 2 identical motors, one can be made to be a better motor and the other to be a better gen, using all the same mags and amount of wire for the windings.  ;) And if the mech resonance is also needed, then it does. If not then this is what Im suggesting thus far.

Mags

 

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