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Author Topic: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems  (Read 19670 times)

Offline Belfior

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #60 on: September 15, 2017, 02:43:30 PM »
Hmm I am searching for the resonant freq on my secondary. Can I just plug a function generator to my primary and crank up the frequency, or do I need some circuitry to protect the func generator? I mean that prim coil is just a short circuit.

What I was thinking is that I control the slayer exciter's transistor base with that function generator. Would that work?

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #60 on: September 15, 2017, 02:43:30 PM »

Offline citfta

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #61 on: September 15, 2017, 05:43:59 PM »
Hi Mags,

Your posts about acoustical resonance reminded me of something my brother and I did back in the 1970s.  We had both just gotten into Ham Radio and lived about 200 miles apart.  At that time you had to learn Morse code and had to use it until you passed a higher level of license.  The band we needed to use because of our distance was usually pretty noisy especially in the summer time with storms and the static they caused.

Of course in those days there was no digital signal processing although there were such things as band-pass filters.  Neither of us could afford the expense of the added filters so we looked for an alternative.

We found an article in one of the Ham radio magazines that told how to make an acoustic filter.  All we needed was a cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels and a small speaker that would just fit at the end of the paper tube.  We cut some slots in the sides of the tube an inch or so from one end of the tube.  I don't remember the exact distance.  We mounted the tube with the end where the slots were down and the speaker on the top end.  This created a chamber that was resonant at a frequency that made the dits and dahs of the code nice and clear and rejected almost all the noise.  It was amazing to hear how much clearer the signal was with such a simple device.

Take care,
Carroll


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #62 on: September 15, 2017, 09:14:59 PM »
Hi Mags,

Your posts about acoustical resonance reminded me of something my brother and I did back in the 1970s.  We had both just gotten into Ham Radio and lived about 200 miles apart.  At that time you had to learn Morse code and had to use it until you passed a higher level of license.  The band we needed to use because of our distance was usually pretty noisy especially in the summer time with storms and the static they caused.

Of course in those days there was no digital signal processing although there were such things as band-pass filters.  Neither of us could afford the expense of the added filters so we looked for an alternative.

We found an article in one of the Ham radio magazines that told how to make an acoustic filter.  All we needed was a cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels and a small speaker that would just fit at the end of the paper tube.  We cut some slots in the sides of the tube an inch or so from one end of the tube.  I don't remember the exact distance.  We mounted the tube with the end where the slots were down and the speaker on the top end.  This created a chamber that was resonant at a frequency that made the dits and dahs of the code nice and clear and rejected almost all the noise.  It was amazing to hear how much clearer the signal was with such a simple device.

Take care,
Carroll

Nice. Reminded me of a time we had a 12ft long piece of 6in pvc pipe and if you put a speaker at one end and slowly sweep audio freq there are points that the freq just jumps over some freq to an upper freq. Like it would not play that particular band of freq. Instead of a continuous freq increase there is a jump at that point and at other octaves and harmonics.

I am showing all this as proof of positive gain using resonance. Ive played with resonance circuits and I dont believe that I was going about it the proper way that took advantage of the gains of resonance. So I have to think differently on it all now. The speaker resonance gain needs to be examined as to why we can make really good use of the resonance gain there but we havent with resonance circuitry. Like a tesla coil. If it is resonant then it will put out more than a non resonant coil by great margins. There are many that dont take great notice of this gain in that transformer. What if resonance was added into our power grid transformers? Would we see the gain, input vs output, like we can see in a tuned tesla coil?????

If our grid system is just running like a out of tune tesla coil, then what can we say about the eff of those grid transformers in comparison to say a tuned grid transformer? There has to be something to it and I believe we have to possibly try things differently somehow than we have been. So Im delving into the audio example to get a better feel for it all and hopefully something good comes out of it.

Mags

Offline itsu

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2017, 09:15:32 PM »
Hmm I am searching for the resonant freq on my secondary. Can I just plug a function generator to my primary and crank up the frequency, or do I need some circuitry to protect the func generator? I mean that prim coil is just a short circuit.

What I was thinking is that I control the slayer exciter's transistor base with that function generator. Would that work?

Belfior,

that prim coil is NOT just a short circuit, at a fairly low frequency it starts to be an inductor which has impedance (reactance) ontop of its DC resistance.
Surely at the frequency your slayer / kacher / tesla like sec. coil will resonate which will be around the upper hundreds of KHz.


So you can use that prim coil (disconnected from the circuit) to feed it with your FG and scan for the resonance frequency of your secondary coil (scope probe to
this unconnected sec. coil).

Or you can leave the prim coil connected and just use a cliplead wire and wrap that loosely 1 or 2 turns around the sec coil and feed that with your FG.
Depending on the number of turns on your sec. coil it will show a single high sine wave peak at resonance, even when feeding in a square wave.


But knowing the resonance frequency will not help much as the circuit you are using is an auto resonance circuit, it should automatically start resonating
at the resonance frequency of that sec. coil.
On the other hand, if it turns out that your sec. coil resonance frequency is above 3Mhz, then you have a problem as the 2n3055 has its limit there.

Using your FG to drive the transistor is not to be recommended (nor needed) as it probable WILL blow your FG frontend.
A buffer inbetween your FG and transistor would be needed, but again, this is not the way to go.


Regards Itsu



Offline Belfior

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #64 on: September 15, 2017, 11:12:39 PM »

But knowing the resonance frequency will not help much as the circuit you are using is an auto resonance circuit, it should automatically start resonating
at the resonance frequency of that sec. coil.
On the other hand, if it turns out that your sec. coil resonance frequency is above 3Mhz, then you have a problem as the 2n3055 has its limit there.


Well I kinda moved on already when I saw some Don Smith documents and circuits. So no more autoresonating. I used Smith's methods of calculating the secondary. If 16 MHz is the target freq I get 75,25 / 16 = 4,705m for the secondary length. I spent a day to get my secondary to 4,705m and primary to 1,176m like Smith.pfd tells me. Then some other dude says you don't need 1/4 wave length secondary and primary can be what ever...

So I sweeped my my 3 different primaries with my FG and oscilloscope shows 2,44MHz is the peak secondary voltage.

Now that I know this I might go back to the autoresonating version, since that freq is below 2n3055 specs and should work. Only thing I have gotten so far with the slayer exciter autoresonator is that if I turn the pot too low the transistor gets hot. I can't get anything on the scope no matter where I put the probes. I get some DC values and I thought the MHz is just out of my scope's range




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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #64 on: September 15, 2017, 11:12:39 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2017, 10:20:19 AM »
Belfior,


well, good luck with your "Don Smith documents and circuits", there are tons of those, all telling something different.
Again here, to my knowledge, nobody was able to replicate any result from a Don Smith setup.



Your 2.44Mhz resonance frequency of your sec. coil looks plausible, but is rather high as normal they work around or below 1Mhz
How many turns does your sec. coil has, and what is the wire gauge?

As TinselKoala already mentioned to you earlier, those 2n3055 are not all following those specs, there are bad ones out there, so it
very well could be that your present 2N3055 does not reach that 2.4Mhz frequency, so perhaps add some turns to lower the frequency to 1Mhz.

Your scope should be good for 20Mhz, see that user manual i linked to you, scope the base, it should show some activity, try to touch the base with a metal screwdriver to induce some spikes to get it kickstarted.

Itsu 

Offline Belfior

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2017, 12:49:36 PM »
Belfior,


well, good luck with your "Don Smith documents and circuits", there are tons of those, all telling something different.
Again here, to my knowledge, nobody was able to replicate any result from a Don Smith setup.



Your 2.44Mhz resonance frequency of your sec. coil looks plausible, but is rather high as normal they work around or below 1Mhz
How many turns does your sec. coil has, and what is the wire gauge?

As TinselKoala already mentioned to you earlier, those 2n3055 are not all following those specs, there are bad ones out there, so it
very well could be that your present 2N3055 does not reach that 2.4Mhz frequency, so perhaps add some turns to lower the frequency to 1Mhz.

Your scope should be good for 20Mhz, see that user manual i linked to you, scope the base, it should show some activity, try to touch the base with a metal screwdriver to induce some spikes to get it kickstarted.

Itsu

Thx itsu,

I think we need good luck with all of these devices. If I ever get any further with this stuff I promise to publish all my findings as public domain with full schematics and videos. I find it repulsive that people claim to have found free energy and they are keeping their secrets to themselves so they can make money out of it. Give interviews, go to conferences or build the devices for people if you need the money.

I am having a good time trying all kinds of stupid things out. I believe that experimenting is the only way to happiness. Take books and other peoples advice as gossip and only believe in your own experiments. I find it quite relaxing that I have no memory of any electrical studies anymore, so I am just poking around in the darkness.

I have scoped the base, over the resistor pot and all the spots I dare to probe. When the pot is set to 0 the transistor has only the 220R resistor protecting it. Then it goes hot really fast, so something is happening. I will change my secondary to another one that resonates at 280k. If the secondary coil is still silent I have to assume to transistor is toast.

I think I should be able to put the scope probes over the pot and get some action there? I mean the point is that when base gets some voltage it opens the collector/emitter line and no more current goes through the base -> base closes. I should be able to see this when probing over the pot. My scope should be in no danger, since I am feeding with 12V DC? Pot is at 5k Ohms

PS. Bought some interesting books on coils and Tesla stuff

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1236023641/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_TE_dp_1

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2017, 12:49:36 PM »
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Offline Belfior

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #67 on: September 16, 2017, 01:28:19 PM »
We have light! It seems I had 2 problems with my slayer exciter. My primary was still too low in relation to the secondary. This I figured out by using my FG on the primary, moving it and scoping the secondary.

Second fault is in one of the solders. I have a cold joint under the board. It goes on-off so it was ok when measuring the joints and not ok when using the exciter. This I found out by hitting the board in frustration and the oscilloscope trace jumped. Nice even trace on the scope and the transistor is mildly warm. Jiihaa!

Thank you all!

Offline Belfior

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #68 on: September 16, 2017, 01:34:25 PM »
also it seems the Universe is on my side and it is pushing me towards success. Look what the local car & boat parts shop is selling. Ready made pancake primary coils! Just needs a few spacers.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #69 on: September 16, 2017, 08:31:28 PM »

Just don't start to bend that copper tube too much as it hardens when you bend it.
Breaking fluid tubes are made of annealed copper (warmed up and slowly cooled down to prevent stress in it). So when you work too much with it, it hardens and will be hard to reshape.
I've done lots of repairs on breaking systems, and know how hard it can be to fix a proper shape to it :)


You can allways warm it up, cool it slowly, to obtain a soft material again

also it seems the Universe is on my side and it is pushing me towards success. Look what the local car & boat parts shop is selling. Ready made pancake primary coils! Just needs a few spacers.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #69 on: September 16, 2017, 08:31:28 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Magluvin

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #70 on: September 16, 2017, 09:04:42 PM »
Ok. Found it!  ;)

Vidar was close. it is 2.5% eff if the sensitivity is 96db @1W. But, 100%eff If it is 112db @1w. :o   So now we know what a 100%eff sub or speaker looks like eff wise.

So now I can set my goal in that direction. So far the highest sensitivity speaker I have seen is 112db @1w. Have not looked at all speakers yet. Sooo many to check out.

So the 112db speaker I have seen is 100%eff.  ???   Can that level be breached? Is that speaker an example of the possible eff that beats all? ???

I have to go through the list I have at home in the lap and Ill post that speaker here.

Sooo now, Im willing to purchase said speaker almost no matter the cost. I want to see what makes it tick even if I have to take it apart. Can it be improved upon??

Before I take it apart, I would test it for the actual spec( I have a db meter) and then test with resonance of porting an enclosure. In the link below the guy shows a chart for the increase in db as you successively double the power. Add 3db for each doubling. Found this stuff with just the right phrasing of the search words. Took a bit.

 https://everything2.com/title/Speaker+efficiency

So this shows what I have said that a speaker will increase in db by doubling power at a 3db rate, well according to the mech limitations of the driver naturally.

If that 112db can be breached, how far can we go?  132db @1w would be a 10,000% efficiency! ;)

So now I dont really feel downed buy the possibility of Vidars 1% eff at 96db claim, of which is actually 2.5%. I have a 105db sub sitting on the bench breaking in at 20hz free air. Subs tend to get louder after a breaking in period and loosens up the suspension to a point where the real specs are arrived at. Learned it from a car stereo review guy that would do the 20hz breaking before doing a listening test.

Im feeling like Im in a happy zone. ;D

Mags

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #71 on: September 16, 2017, 09:15:39 PM »
https://www.google.com/patents/US2813242

 The invention centers around my discovery that it is practicable to construct operative transistor circuits that are able to abstract from the atmosphere suflicient electromagnetic energy to provide all necessary supply voltages and currents for their own operation. Circuits and devices powered according to my invention will operate indefinitely without any local power source whatever.
 I have successfully constructed and demonstrated such circuits. For example, I have constructed a batteryless transistor radio receiver on which I have listened to either nearby or distant broadcast stations as desired, using either headphones or a loudspeaker; this receiver has been powered entirely by electromagnetic energy abstracted from the atmosphere.
 From the successful operation of this receiver, and from other experimental work, it becomes clear that, by the methods and means of the invention, a great variety of practical and useful transistor circuits can be powered entirely by energy abstracted from the atmosphere.

to citing documents:
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2008005628A2?cl=en
Assuming 2,300 active thunderstorms at any given moment [9], the estimated average total power output of thunderstorm activity is approximately 1.44x1014 W. A hurricane's power generation is estimated at about 1014 W [10]; in comparison, at present the total electrical power generation capacity of the man-made power generators in the world is 3.625x1012 W, [11] a small fraction of the power generated in the troposphere by thunderstorm activity. This suggests that the density of atmospheric electrical activity may be high enough to tap, and indicates that atmospheric electricity, if harnessed, could meet a great proportion the energy needs of mankind. This invention describes a new method, to convert atmospheric electrical energy into a useable electric voltage and current for powering conventional electric devices.

https://www.google.com/patents/WO1993020589A1?cl=en
The reversible thermoelectric converter can be operated for converting thermal energy to electric energy, as a heat pump or a refrigerator or as an amplifier. A planar array of reversible thermoelectric converter elements provides a desired output voltage and current

By way of example, an input signal of 6 microwatts with a bandwidth of 1 gigahertz is applied to diode 20 either as thermal energy or electric energy, and thermal energy is applied to diode 10. A signal-to-noise ration of 60 dB is obtained for the input signal for a temperature T of the cold diode 20 of 300° K. For a temperature
Tr of hot electrons in diode 10 of 6000° K, the amplification of the input signal is 26 dB, which gives an output signal of 2.4 milliwatts. The amplified output signal also has a 60 dB signal-to-noise ratio.


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #72 on: September 16, 2017, 09:25:17 PM »
https://www.google.com/patents/US2813242

 The invention centers around my discovery that it is practicable to construct operative transistor circuits that are able to abstract from the atmosphere suflicient electromagnetic energy to provide all necessary supply voltages and currents for their own operation. Circuits and devices powered according to my invention will operate indefinitely without any local power source whatever.
 I have successfully constructed and demonstrated such circuits. For example, I have constructed a batteryless transistor radio receiver on which I have listened to either nearby or distant broadcast stations as desired, using either headphones or a loudspeaker; this receiver has been powered entirely by electromagnetic energy abstracted from the atmosphere.
 From the successful operation of this receiver, and from other experimental work, it becomes clear that, by the methods and means of the invention, a great variety of practical and useful transistor circuits can be powered entirely by energy abstracted from the atmosphere.

I have a book that shows a transistor batteryless AM radio. There is an FM circuit to that I believe has 2 transistors.

I wonder if we added more resonant circuits to them 'some way', like say the dual chamber reflex box, or even the 6th order box where both chambers could be tuned close to each other in freq producing way more output per power in, if we could get more from those powerless radios. ;)

Mags

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #73 on: September 16, 2017, 09:46:29 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal-to-noise_ratio

                    myriads of converting circuits ?
               this is called a "quantum dots array"

                          similar technique:
               https://www.google.pt/search?client=firefox-b&dcr=0&q=nantenna&oq=nantenna&gs_l=psy-ab.3...3821.4615.0.5242.2.2.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..2.0.0....0._h9jb8RRQiA


Offline Low-Q

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #74 on: September 16, 2017, 10:02:09 PM »
Efficiency in speakers are very relative. We talk about 1 meter from the source. Half meter measurement distance of a 112dB@1m sensitivity speaker does not mean that the measured 118dB is more than 100% efficiency.


Horn loaded speakers easily exceed 112dB/1W@1m because the horn does not have a 4pi distribution of sound.
Also, a large area of the membrane emits a more narrow pressure wave, so a measurement at 1 meter might not mean a difference at 0.5 meter measurement by as much as 6dB.


Vidar.

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #74 on: September 16, 2017, 10:02:09 PM »

 

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