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Author Topic: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems  (Read 17129 times)

Offline tinman

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2016, 02:56:01 AM »
@Mag's

Below is a quick sketch of the base circuit i am experimenting with ATM.

Odd operation at first glance,but i have a full wave across both coil's as i had hoped for.
All coils on same toroid core of course.
Will post some scope shot's when i get back tomorrow from my boat trip.


Brad

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2016, 02:56:01 AM »

Online Magluvin

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2016, 03:32:05 AM »
@Mag's

Below is a quick sketch of the base circuit i am experimenting with ATM.

Odd operation at first glance,but i have a full wave across both coil's as i had hoped for.
All coils on same toroid core of course.
Will post some scope shot's when i get back tomorrow from my boat trip.


Brad

That interesting.  Are the coils on 1 core?   

Bringing some stuff I had at home bench for the mechanical resonance project. Take pics and start a thread, along with a JT resonance thread. 

Need some sleep tonight or tomorrow will be a sluggish day.

Mags


Offline verpies

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2016, 11:17:05 AM »
Did you mean,  "become comparable to the lengths of the 'conductors'" or inductors?
Conductors in inductors

Offline tinman

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2016, 02:12:17 PM »
Below are two test results from slightly different circuit's.

I have switched over to my hybrid toroid inductor,and the results are very good indeed.
there is something about this hybrid toroid that always exceeds results from that of standard wound toroid inductors.

The first circuit is the one that MH classes as the !standard! JT circuit,but after many comments from others on my youtube channel and here,it would seem that the second circuit is considered as the standard JT circuit. It is most defiantly the most efficient of the two,and in each associated scope shot you can see why.
With the first circuit,the current never stops flowing from the battery-even during the off time of the transistor. The reason for this is because during the off time of the transistor,the battery is included in the current loop,but where as the current is flowing into the battery the wrong way.

In the second circuit,the associated scope shot clearly show's the current stops flowing from the battery during the off time of the transistor. This is because the battery is now emitted from the current loop,and the current loop now only includes the L1 coil and LED.

You will also notice how low the frequency is when using the hybrid toroid inductor,even though the inner core is an !off the shelf! ferrite core,and the outer core material is devcon steel putty.

The light output from the hybrid inductor is about 18% more than the standard ferrite core JT,for a lot less P/in as well. We can clearly see the current flow across the 1ohm CVR--!blue trace!.The yellow trace is across L1.

The supply voltage remains the same in both cases.


Brad


Offline tinman

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2016, 09:16:55 AM »
First scope shots from the circuit below.

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2016, 09:16:55 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2016, 10:27:40 AM »
Well i can confirm that in a resonant state or frequency,you do get more out for less in.

Below is a scope shot of two LED's being run while the inductor is in a resonant state.
If the frequency drop's by more than 100Hz either side of the 8.5KHz,then the LEDs dull off,and the power consumption go's up.

Each scope trace is across each LED-->there are 2 LED's in the circuit.


Brad

Offline Belfior

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2017, 05:44:12 PM »
Hi!

I'm trying out some coils for the first time and I want to get resonant coupling going on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonant_inductive_coupling

I am trying to find the simplest circuit to test some "tesla" coil arrangement and they are hard to find. People seem to be working with ignition coils and arcs mostly.

Would something like this work to drive the primary? My secondary could just be a coil with a cap for tuning. Then near field transmission from secondary to load.

https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/y9wuxmsmf697/tesla-driver-circuit/

I got TL494 for the square wave and 2N3055 for driving the coil. I got IRFP260Ns coming, but that might take awhile and I want to try try this out already :)

I am just starting my electronics hobby and I want to get a feel for coils and resonances before going into kapanadze replicas


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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2017, 05:44:12 PM »
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Online Magluvin

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2017, 06:06:23 AM »
Hi!

I'm trying out some coils for the first time and I want to get resonant coupling going on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonant_inductive_coupling

I am trying to find the simplest circuit to test some "tesla" coil arrangement and they are hard to find. People seem to be working with ignition coils and arcs mostly.

Would something like this work to drive the primary? My secondary could just be a coil with a cap for tuning. Then near field transmission from secondary to load.

https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/y9wuxmsmf697/tesla-driver-circuit/

I got TL494 for the square wave and 2N3055 for driving the coil. I got IRFP260Ns coming, but that might take awhile and I want to try try this out already :)

I am just starting my electronics hobby and I want to get a feel for coils and resonances before going into kapanadze replicas

I checked out the wiki. Those are interesting proposals they show in pics below. Ive only ever seen coil loop to coil loop in transmitting and receiving like TK has shown in his vids. Would there be a difference by having a separate LC next to the receiving coil vs just having the receiving loop as the L of the receiving LC? And then they show a separate LC with the transmit coil also.  Is worth looking at. ;)

The other link is not working for me.

Are you looking to go Tesla for the high voltage aspect?

Mags


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2017, 08:21:32 AM »
Hi!

I'm trying out some coils for the first time and I want to get resonant coupling going on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonant_inductive_coupling

I am trying to find the simplest circuit to test some "tesla" coil arrangement and they are hard to find. People seem to be working with ignition coils and arcs mostly.

Would something like this work to drive the primary? My secondary could just be a coil with a cap for tuning. Then near field transmission from secondary to load.

https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/y9wuxmsmf697/tesla-driver-circuit/

I got TL494 for the square wave and 2N3055 for driving the coil. I got IRFP260Ns coming, but that might take awhile and I want to try try this out already :)

I am just starting my electronics hobby and I want to get a feel for coils and resonances before going into kapanadze replicas

I would recommend "backing up" one step and going for the auto-resonating circuits like the Slayer Exciter using your 2n3055 to start with.
(You should also know that not all 2n3055s are created equal, there are many fakes out there that cannot take the HV, so try different manufacturers and sources for your transistors if possible.)

The reason for using auto-resonating circuits is that the actual resonant frequency of the coil set will change due to changing environments like proximity of your hands, other metal objects, supply voltage and so on. So if you are using an oscillator circuit like the 494 you will constantly be retuning to keep the setup in resonance and may miss the true resonant point altogether. Autoresonating circuits are much easier and simpler to work with when you are starting out.

There are many different types of autoresonators. The TKoil X circuit demonstrated above is an antenna-driven E-field feedback circuit but is more complicated (and less safe)  than the direct base-driven Slayer Exciter circuits as shown below. More sophisticated auto-resonating SSTCs use phase-locked loops (CD4046, etc.) to lock into resonance and these can produce great results but are not for the raw beginner.

Good Luck!

This will work with 2n3055:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6uQUxC7DS8

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2017, 08:21:32 AM »
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Offline Belfior

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2017, 02:41:00 PM »
I checked out the wiki. Those are interesting proposals they show in pics below. Ive only ever seen coil loop to coil loop in transmitting and receiving like TK has shown in his vids. Would there be a difference by having a separate LC next to the receiving coil vs just having the receiving loop as the L of the receiving LC? And then they show a separate LC with the transmit coil also.  Is worth looking at. ;)

The other link is not working for me.

Are you looking to go Tesla for the high voltage aspect?

Mags

TK is the reason I am here wondering :) The annoying thing here is that my kungfu consists of resistors, caps and some diodes. So I got lotsa ideas, but no skills. It seems electronics is like baking. You need to know the basics to start to experiment, but when I can't find anything like this learning even the basics is hard :(

I want to try to prim -> LC -> LC -> load, but I got no circuit to drive looped coils. Everything is flyback feedback or for ignition coils.

I just want to get something to show up in my scope like prim & looped secondary in resonance. When I hit resonance I want to add another coil to see if I can still get prim & sec resonating, but also excite the third col. I want to try to "blind" the LC like Tesla did, so it would charge to higher voltages it receives

Offline Belfior

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2017, 02:44:05 PM »
I would recommend "backing up" one step and going for the auto-resonating circuits like the Slayer Exciter using your 2n3055 to start with.
(You should also know that not all 2n3055s are created equal, there are many fakes out there that cannot take the HV, so try different manufacturers and sources for your transistors if possible.)

The reason for using auto-resonating circuits is that the actual resonant frequency of the coil set will change due to changing environments like proximity of your hands, other metal objects, supply voltage and so on. So if you are using an oscillator circuit like the 494 you will constantly be retuning to keep the setup in resonance and may miss the true resonant point altogether. Autoresonating circuits are much easier and simpler to work with when you are starting out.

There are many different types of autoresonators. The TKoil X circuit demonstrated above is an antenna-driven E-field feedback circuit but is more complicated (and less safe)  than the direct base-driven Slayer Exciter circuits as shown below. More sophisticated auto-resonating SSTCs use phase-locked loops (CD4046, etc.) to lock into resonance and these can produce great results but are not for the raw beginner.

Good Luck!

This will work with 2n3055:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6uQUxC7DS8

Thx Tinsel!

Yeah I backed up already. Had a beer and thought this through. Having the circuit "autotune" itself is a major factor. Just wondering how a looped secondary will work with that? I will attach a schematic I'm using and maybe I add a third coil there that is looped with a cap. prim and sec would autotune even with the third coil I think


Offline Belfior

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2017, 07:21:05 PM »
TinselKoala I have to say your slayer exciter is a really clean build! I feel a ashamed now :( My lab is 1m x 1m between a bed and a shelf.

I will try your circuit on my coil.


Offline Belfior

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2017, 07:05:40 PM »
is the larger number of turn on the secondary necessary when trying to get HV? I was told in tesla coils the primary "whips" the voltage up the secondary and that is how the voltage builds up.

If the secondary is a looped coil what would introducing a large cap do to the situation? Freq, voltages?

If the secondary is feeding back to the system can I get away with smaller number of turns?

Did one 400 turn coil and using that as my secondary. Took me hours with thin cable :( Primary is going to be 3 turns



Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2017, 01:51:26 PM »
Nothing to be embarrassed about, we all work with what we have and try to make the best of it.

is the larger number of turn on the secondary necessary when trying to get HV? I was told in tesla coils the primary "whips" the voltage up the secondary and that is how the voltage builds up.

Yes, the action of a good 1/4 wave air-core resonator is somewhat like a "whip" in that the top end is free to swing to very high voltage amplitude.
The number of turns on the secondary is related to the frequency of the resonance. You must consider the "electrical length" of the winding, which
influences its inductance, which in turn combined with the top capacity will determine the basic resonant frequency of the setup. Shorter electrical
length means smaller inductance which means higher frequency of resonance. Once you get over about 4 MHz you are well into high frequency radio
transmissions and you will have to have your layout, components and construction all fit for that purpose. For practical experimentation using
ordinary transistors and haphazard layout, you should try to stay below 1 MHz. This means longer coils, more turns, etc.
You can attain VRSWR and high voltages with shorter, higher frequency coils but as I said, you have to be much more careful with your layout and
component choices. You aren't going to get much satisfaction with a 2n2222 transistor and a 4MHz resonator!
Quote

If the secondary is a looped coil what would introducing a large cap do to the situation? Freq, voltages?

I'm not sure what you mean by "looped coil" or "large cap" here. You can use any number of on-line calculators to determine resonant frequency,
inductor and capacitor values. My favourite one is here:
http://www.1728.org/resfreq.htm
Quote

If the secondary is feeding back to the system can I get away with smaller number of turns?

I'm not sure what you mean by "feeding back" here. The Slayer exciter circuit uses feedback from the base (bottom) of the secondary to drive
the transistor's Base terminal. The TinselKoil X uses antenna feedback from the secondary's E-field to drive the mosfet driver chip. As I said
before the turn count of the secondary, all other things being equal, will determine the basic resonant frequency of the system. The fewer turns,
the lower the inductance and the higher the resonant frequency, again if all other variables are held constant.
Quote

Did one 400 turn coil and using that as my secondary. Took me hours with thin cable :( Primary is going to be 3 turns


Good. It's good practice to wind coils, good discipline, and you'll get better at it the more you do. Masking tape is your friend, use it to
tape down the turns so if you need to stop or if you let go for some reason, your coil will only unwind to the taped part, not totally!

But I have to warn you: You will find it very difficult to get consistent and satisfactory results using a loose, sloppy layout with lots of
clipleads, and the problems will get worse with higher frequencies.


One other thing: When posting pictures to the forum, please PLEASE try to keep the horizontal width small enough so the pix don't run
off the page to the right. 800 pixels wide is good enough for most purposes; rarely you may need to use up to 1024 pixels wide. If you
need to show some detail at high magnification, crop it out of the larger picture and post the cropped detail at no more than 1024 pixels wide.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Resonance Circuits and Resonance Systems
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2017, 01:51:26 PM »

 

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