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Author Topic: Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)  (Read 9884 times)

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2016, 06:43:21 PM »
@Kator01: Thank you for the information, I will write to 3M.

The electret  coax cable experiment is fascinating, I hope I can do it one day.My garden is large enough.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2016, 10:29:33 PM »
Good idea! I believe in experiments, Theories come after successful experiments.

Put two cylindrical magnets in a vertical tube with North poles facing each other.The top magnet should hoover above the lower one. But the top magnet is pressed closer to the lower one by gravity.

I think that nothing is gained.

Greetings, Conrad

yes
What is left then, is purely the electric force pulling the plates together against the magnetism (or spring).
when they approach a closer distance, the increase in attraction of the charges is weaker than the increase in repulsion of the magnets.

a spring is more linear, so the opposite situation can occur, where the electric force can overpower the spring at close distances.

it is interesting to think about, I might build one of each to play around with.


Offline guest1289

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Re: Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2016, 02:11:37 AM »
   It might be useful if you post what aspects of the  electrophorus ( or electrostatic-generators etc ) you want to know or understand more about, or find unexplained,   because,   it's such a founding block of physics,  surely the answers are already out there somewhere. 

 ( Maybe if you want an alternative electret,  maybe a container of very-fine-and-short-fabric-fibers( like microfibre fibers),   or the various types of packing foams,  or  very-thin-pieces-of-plastic, or paper,    or the types of dust that accidentally explode in grain-silos due to static( a less explosive choice ) ,  and maybe tightly compress it in a container that has  a  fabric-top  that lets air through it  )

But, here is what I wonder about,  regarding the  electrophorus,  electrostatic-generators,  and electrostatic-motors.
 I'm only posting it to post it,  I don't require any answers.
-  When say for example,  and electrostatic-motor is making  little sparks between the stators and the moving-components,  is it possible that it is losing a higher-ratio  of Electromotive-force//Electrons  into the air,   than  when  electrical-current is just moving through conductors.
A hypothetical example,  during a spark through the air,  60%- electromotive-force  is totally lost to,  and absorbed by the air,   and 5%-electrons is totally lost to   and absorbed by the air.
Whereas in wire, due to existing resistance,   10%- electromotive-force  is totally lost,  BUT I ASSUME THAT NO ELECTRONS could be lost if they are only travelling through wire.
(  KEEPING IN MIND, that when the 2 sections of the  electrophorus  are not touching,  I assume there are little sparks occurring  when they are close  )

SO,  what would happen if you altered the ratio of  Electromotive-force/Electrons beyond a certain limit,  is all that happens is that the electrical-current stops flowing.
  - What happens if you have too much electromotive-force and too little electrons( or no electrons at all )
  - What happens if you have too many electrons,  and,  too little electromotive-force(or no electromotive-force at all )

But this is also related to something else,  I read a post about someone  using an arc-welder and claiming that it seemed to be generating more current than it was using,  in that particular case I suspect that the power-meter reaction to the arc-welder was to blame.

HOWEVER,  I have read about  electrostatic-machines  which have been claimed to take/absorb the  electrostatic-electricity  out  from the air/atmosphere,  and I have even seen a web-page of an electrostatic-motor powered by electrostatic-electricity which is collected directly from the air/atmosphere .

So that makes me wonder about the following analogy,  say you have the type of fountain with a very wide-flat-water-surface  flowing in a room  with  a very high percentage-of-water in the air,  could that water fountain absorb and remove a lot of the water in the air.
    NOW, what if you somehow managed to make a very wide-flat-surface-of-electricity  flowing through the air,  or,   even across the outer-surface  of an object,  could   that  wide-flat-surface-of-electricity   collect  electrostatic-electricity  directly from the air/atmosphere .
      -  And if so,   could you specially design something too alter  how much   electromotive-force  you collect from the air,  as compared to how many electrons you collect from the air.

    I definitely do not need an answer to any of these questions,  I'm only posting it if it gives anyone any ideas.

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2016, 12:16:52 PM »
   It might be useful if you post what aspects of the  electrophorus ( or electrostatic-generators etc ) you want to know or understand more about, or find unexplained,   because,   it's such a founding block of physics,  surely the answers are already out there somewhere. 

What I do not yet understand about the electrophorus:

- The role of the ground plate. Is it neccessary, can one connect my basic circuits (see my first post in this thread) from the moveable top plate to ground (without the second plate underneath the cake)?

- In geneal the role of a connection to ground. Is a ground connection helpful?

Greetings, Conrad


Offline telecom

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Re: Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2016, 08:07:03 PM »
Hi Conrad,
ground connection should be a part of your working cycle,
like on the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MovlfZK7aO4

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2016, 08:07:03 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2016, 09:17:38 PM »
Hi Conrad,
ground connection should be a part of your working cycle,
like on the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MovlfZK7aO4

My two basic circuits eliminate the grounding (touching of the top plate) which every description of the original electrophorus mentions and also the video you cited.

A closed circuit is established in my two basic circuits (see the first post in this thread) by incorporating the ground plate. And indeed, one only has to move the top plate up and down ( no grounding or touching) when implementing my two basic circuits.

So, my two basic circuits work without grounding or touching ( no connection to ground at any time, my electrophorus is completely insulated from ground or from the body of the operator).

- Now imagine, one removes the ground plate and leads the wire to earth ground in my two basic circuits. Will it still work? This came to my mind recently, not tested yet. (Notice that many electrlphori are demonstrated without a ground plate, like in the video you cite.)

- But I played with an earth ground connection. My two basic circuits seem to work more reliably with a connection from the ground plate to earth ground. It is not dramatic, just an impression. It needs proper measurements which need a crank mechanism to move the top plate uniformly many times.

My two basic circuits are may be not basic enough. The ground plate is may be superfluous if one has a permanent connection to earth ground.

The casual observer often overlooks the fine points in an electrophorus. It is simple but not trivial.

My two basic circuits turn an electrophorus into a continuously working electrostatic generator; just moving the top plate up and down, no touching = grounding and no mechanical contacts like in the known doublers. It seems that many do not understand that point. It is the one and only ponit of my disclosure.And I have not seen that so far in the literature, which I find surprising and interesting..

Greetings, Conrad

Offline DreamThinkBuild

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Re: Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2016, 07:31:32 PM »
Hi Conrad,

Thanks for sharing. Here is just an idea of using a silicone ring as a spring board. A 3v pager motor to create a oscillation. A silicone bake pan is around shore A 60 to 70. The ring can be made by casting a mold in clay or 3D print. If that is too much than an easier way is to go to the dollar store and buy a silicone muffin pan and cut the bottom and top off so you have a band to experiment with.

Maybe you could marry the idea with a dielectric generator like in this topic:
http://overunity.com/16139/eap-electroactive-polymers/

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2016, 07:31:32 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2016, 09:13:46 PM »
@DreamThinkBuild:

Vibration motors and EAPs, nice ideas, thank you.

There are so many things to play with.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline guest1289

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Re: Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2016, 10:02:56 PM »
The earth's surface is negatively-charged,  like the ground-plate( electret ) when it's charged .
( The atmosphere is positively-charged  )

If you can cause the  charge-separation  in the  top-plate,  just by using a  grounded(earth)-wire,  instead of requiring a   flat-negatively-charged-ground-plate( electret )  of the same shape and diameter as the  top-plate,  that would be interesting.   
   If it doesn't work,  maybe you could use a   permanently-grounded( earth )-ground-plate( non electret ),  of the  same shape and size as the  top-plate,    instead of the  electret.
    - Or,  is there a way to only use the  charged-ground-plate( electret )  once,  to cause just one  charge-separation,   at the beginning of a period when it's going to continue running for a long while,   and from then on just use the   grounded(earth)-wire,  but that would require inventing a new  electrophorus process or cycle .    I type that if the  electret has reliability problems .

   Before I understood how the electrophorus works,  I wondered if perhaps it was extracting some electricity from the atmosphere,   for example,  when the  positively-charged-top-plate  is  moved  up and away from the  ground-plate( electret ),  I thought maybe that was causing the  ground-plate( electret )  to draw some atmospheric electricity into itself.     I now doubt it.

   Apparently, in complete darkness,  you can observe some very interesting behavior of the  mini-lightning emanating from the electrophorus,  to anything it can use to reach the earth.
http://www.pulse-jets.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3210&start=1245
   I only mention that,  because it would be very interesting to film the  entire cycle of a  traditional-electrophorus,  in complete darkness,  maybe to see if when you  are  lifting  the  positively-charged-top-plate  up and away from the  negatively-charged-bottom-plate,  if there is any mini-lightning,   there shouldn't be I guess.

   I was going to suggest,  that instead of replacing the  ground-plate( electret ) with a grounded(earth)-wire,  maybe you could use  atmospheric-electricity instead,  so that the electrophorus could work in an aircraft for example.   
   I didn't know the atmosphere is positively-charged,  but I have seen some electrostatic-motors  which are powered by atmospheric-electricity,  but that would be much less convenient than the other options.

   But, I wonder if the electrophorus could function in a  vacuum,  without any access to the earths surface,  AND,  another test with access to the earths surface.   
    Could it function as a totally independent closed-system  in a vacuum( the  electrophorus doesn't actually need to create sparks to function  )
    OR,  even  in a sealed-air container,    with,  or without access to the earths-surface.
   
   It'd be helpfull if there was a demonstration somewhere of the electrophorus functioning with access to the earths surface,  or without access to the earths surface,   represented by using  positive-balls and negative-balls as the charges,  just to be able to see for oneself how everything adds up .  Either as a closed system,  or an open system.

   Could it function inside of, or outside of, a spaceship floating in space.  I'm guessing it could function floating in space, if it contained sufficient material.

   I found these links very interesting
   http://amasci.com/emotor/belt.html
   http://www.alternative-technologies.org/articles/static/
   http://www.splung.com/content/sid/3/page/electrostatics

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2016, 12:48:16 AM »
@guest1289 and all casual readers:

In order to understand what I write in this topic, one has to go back to page 1, to my very first post, and one has to understand the two circuit diagrams posted there. I call the first circuit "basic curcuit" and the second circuit "basic doubler".

The electrophorus in the two circuits has

- a round steel plate at the top, which is moved up and down by hand. It has a plastic tube as a handle and I often call it " top plate"

- a round acrylic plate, which is rubbed occasionally with fur or wool so that it is positively charged at its top surface. One could call this acrylic plate "electret" or "electrolyte" (like in a capacitor).

- a round steel plate underneath the acrylic plate which I often call "ground plate"


The "basic circuit" and the "basic doubler" are completely insulated from ground. Therefore they would work

- in an airplane,
- in a space ship
- in a closed box
- in vacuum and
- in space where it is not too hot to melt the acrylic plate.

Forgive me, if I can not prove that by experiment, but nothing speaks against this claim.


Now, to confuse you, one can speculate whether a connection to earth ground would be beneficial.

- I speculate (and will test) that the ground plate (the round steel plate underneath the acrylic plate) could be replaced by a connection to earth ground. This of course would not be possible in an airplane or space ship.

- I also speculate (and will test) that a earth ground connection of the ground plate could be beneficial in a minor way (and off goes the airplane and the space ship again).


So, if you want to understand and to contribute in an intelligent way, please look at the two circuit diagrams in my very first post in this topic. That is all I write about in this topic, nothing more and nothing less.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Modified Electrophorus (precharged variable capacitor)
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2016, 12:48:16 AM »
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