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Author Topic: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation  (Read 8113 times)

Offline guest1289

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All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« on: December 26, 2015, 09:35:54 PM »
If any all Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation design works,  it would obviously contravene 'Earnshaw's-Theorem' .

All of the  'Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation'  designs  I am posting here,   use arrays of small-magnets( spaced apart from each other),  to repel away,   from much larger flat-magnetic-surfaces .
     -  I think,  that this is actually a way to contravene  'Earnshaw's-Theorem' .
     -  I also think that this may simulate how diamagnetic-levition functions at a microscopic level .

     Below,  in the diagram called  'CUBE FLOATING INSIDE A LARGER CUBE',  not only am I using the arrays of small-magnets( spaced apart from each other),  to repel away,   from much larger flat magnetic-surfaces,    I have also removed the magnetic-edges( and magnetic-corners ) normally present in previous attempts to float a cube inside a cube( which I think is why other peoples attempts have failed ) .

       [  NOTE : In diagrams 'CUBE FLOATING INSIDE A LARGER CUBE'  and  'CYLINDER FLOATING IN A HALF-CYLINDER',   no 'magnetic-array' forms magnetic-edges( and magnetic-corners ) with another magnetic-array .
          (   the small-magnets( in the arrays ) on the Floating-Objects,  are spaced away from the other 'arrays',  in order to prevent forming magnetic-edges( and magnetic-corners )   ]

       Below,  in the diagram called 'CYLINDER FLOATING IN A HALF-CYLINDER',  I was unable to remove all of the magnetic-edges( and magnetic-corners ) because it would have taken too much time and effort to draw it correctly (  so, the half-cylinder should have it's magnetic-edges( and magnetic-corners ) removed just like the larger-cube in the diagram called  'CUBE FLOATING INSIDE A LARGER CUBE' ).

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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2015, 07:19:21 AM »
There is a great divide between Earnshaw's Theorem, and its' interpretation.

What the Theorem clearly states, is that, in accordance to both Gauss's Law, and Laplace's Equation:
Is that any "permanent magnetic" levitation, will result in perpetual motion.

This is a direct result of the atomic interactions during the magnetic moment, which causes the force-vector to head towards
the magnetic source. Since there are multiple sources, each vector heading towards the  center of each source.....
There is always in unstable force in one direction or another.

Furthermore, the theorem proves that all of the atoms' magnetic moments cannot occur at the same time, otherwise they would repel each other,
disintegrating the magnetic material. They must, therefore, occur at different times, thus the force vector is constantly changing.

What modern-day scientists take this to mean is:: there is always an instability, that prevents perfect levitation.
     This is not necessarily true. As proven by Dr  Don Herbert (Mr Wizard) in the 1950's, when he invented the principals that make the MagLev Train possible.

Today - we use an electromagnet for the Trains, because the perfectly symmetrical magnets he used are expensive.
Ordinary magnets have tiny variances that make the train move to one side of the track or another at random places and causes technical problems.
   This by no means indicates that using permanent magnets for levitation is impossible, or even difficult to achieve.

I myself have had several objects levitated for vast amounts of time, purely by magnetic force, without any constraints, tethers, or framework.
all within exact accordance with Earnshaw's Theorem. There was, in fact, a motion within the magnetic field.
I cannot personally, discount any or all wind, ambient changes in the magnetic field, physical vibration of the framework or surface it sits upon.
therefore, I can't say definitively, that all motion was a result of Earnshawnian motion.
However, it becomes clear in ANY permanent-magnetic levitation situation, that there is always motion.
Motion, which can often breach magnetic barriers causing the levitation to fail, or the levitating object to move outside of the boundaries.

Simply put, Earnshaw;s Theorem states that, WHEN permanent magnetic levitation occurs,- It cannot be perfectly balanced. (i.e. - without motion)







Offline MagnaProp

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2015, 07:55:35 AM »
I wouldn't worry to much about Earnshaw's-Theorem. Even if the levitation has movement that was almost impossible to perceive with the naked eye, it sounds like it would still satisfy his theorem since even small movement is movement.

I haven't looked at your particular device to closely yet but I don't see why it wouldn't work. I've seen these magnetic "tractor beams" from which I don't see why you couldn't make a levitating device. How they work looks simple to me. bowl of small magnets with one large one at the bottom of the bowl should levitate a magnet in the bowl just fine. The large magnet at the bottom of the bowl would attract your floating ball and the little magnets in the bowl repel the floating ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7RXOhfsjDA

Offline guest1289

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2016, 04:22:16 AM »
     When I look at my diagram of the Magnetic-Sled( LARGE-FLAT-MAGNET FLOATING ON ARRAY.JPG,  posted on this thread ), gliding over arrays of tiny magnets spaced apart from each other,  I start to wonder if that, or a different version,   could function as a  magnet-motor,  especially if it was arranged in a suitable circle. 
      And,  any other,  very visibly,  'constantly unstable'  all-permanent-magnet-full-levitation  device,  could get close to perpetual-motion,  assuming the instability is not from weather/external-vibrations .


Offline Nink

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2016, 05:56:13 AM »

I myself have had several objects levitated for vast amounts of time, purely by magnetic force, without any constraints, tethers, or framework.
all within exact accordance with Earnshaw's Theorem. There was, in fact, a motion within the magnetic field

I think we would all like to see some photos or video of your designs @sm0ky   I have played with permanent magnets for years but never had a chance to play  with diamagnetic materials to do permanent magnet levitation.  I believe this is an exciting area and I have been meaning to buy some Bismuth and melt it down and have a play.  I think we all know how we can get a permanent magnet to levitate, We could do this in a vacuum quite easily.  We could put copper around that vacuum chamber.  We could spin the magnet in that chamber....


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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2016, 05:56:13 AM »
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Offline SoManyWires

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2016, 06:33:13 AM »
I think we would all like to see some photos or video of your designs @sm0ky   I have played with permanent magnets for years but never had a chance to play  with diamagnetic materials to do permanent magnet levitation.  I believe this is an exciting area and I have been meaning to buy some Bismuth and melt it down and have a play.  I think we all know how we can get a permanent magnet to levitate, We could do this in a vacuum quite easily.  We could put copper around that vacuum chamber.  We could spin the magnet in that chamber....

yes, the fields of magnetics.
I too think this is worth much testing.
floating bearing systems, reduced friction and maintenance.
much force, how to unlock it using the right combination of actuator fields.
sounds simple enough, and many of us are simple enough to keep giving it the ol college try until something happens. should nothing happen, then stop doing it wrong so it might eventually work. lol

Offline Nink

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2016, 06:46:57 AM »
I just ordered a 100g of Bismuth on Amazon $17 Canadian Including shipping.  I haven't given the vacuum chamber any thought yet to remove friction from air resistance but I am sure I can work something out. Worse case it will make an interesting desk ornament at work.    old College try :-)  http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00ZQC6W1I 

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2016, 06:46:57 AM »
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Offline SoManyWires

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2016, 07:52:44 AM »
I just ordered a 100g of Bismuth on Amazon $17 Canadian Including shipping.  I haven't given the vacuum chamber any thought yet to remove friction from air resistance but I am sure I can work something out. Worse case it will make an interesting desk ornament at work.    old College try :-)  http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00ZQC6W1I

Omni DIY Reply 6 years ago
Bismuth is also one of the most diamagnetic materials if I'm not mistaken. This makes it repellent to magnetic fields. If you hang a piece from a string and place a magnet near a side, that side should rotate away from that magnet. It doesn't matter what pole is facing it. If you form a thin sheet of bismuth and form a perimeter of magnets around the edge, you can also levitate it. 👈😨

                                                                               🌎♻

Offline massive

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2016, 08:40:03 PM »

we are limited by dimentions of available manufactured magnets .
 
Howard Johnson used to buy factory produced magnets then cut them to suit the dimensions he needed .
this pic is of  2 ring magnets from a micro wave oven resting on a wooden stand .
as crude as it is , it is still a pretty good demo

Offline guest1289

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2016, 09:03:26 PM »
My designs are so simple,  anyone with access to suitable magnets,  could easily get them working.

I don't know why people have never published in books and internet etc,  all-permanent-magnet-full-levitation  contraptions,  you'd think they'd still be impressive,  no matter how much they vibrate etc.

Graphite ( pencil-lead )
If you want,  you can just put pencil-lead  which is actually  Graphite,   in the v space formed in between two long square-sided-neodymium magnets,   and it will levitate, with no problems,   it's on google image search . 
    It's possible that those lengths of graphite are very thin,  and the pictures are zoomed in,  if so,  you can easily buy affordable  'pyrolytic carbon'  or even  graphene on the main websites ,  I'm not sure how well graphene would work,  but there are all sorts of other diamagnetic materials too,

By using diamagnetic materials, it's incredibly easy to levitate things,  and diamagnetic-levitation is an exception to 'Earnshaw's Theory',  so your not achieving anything,  just with that levitation .

Yesterday I discovered an extra reason why I have just stuck with permanent-magnets,  and that is that with some small modifications,  some of my all-permanent-magnet-full-levitation  designs,   could also be  magnet-motors,  thats in my posts today
 http://overunity.com/15774/permanent-magnet-motor/msg473508/#msg473508

   I have just realized that my  'magnet-motor-2',     that the design of the  'individual stators'  in magnet-motor-2,     could be used to make the Magnetic-Sled mentioned above, gliding over arrays of tiny magnets spaced apart from each other,    to see if it could function as a magnet-motor,  like a reversal / inverse,  of magnet-motor-2 ,  and  much much easier to make .

I'm either interpreting your idea correctly, or improving it,  your going to cover the container in copper,  so all the vibration caused by the diamagnetic-levitation will sort of be reflected back onto the levitation magnets and diamagnetcs,  which could make the levitating magnet spin,  in effect,  a magnet motor .   
    In that case,  you should get an increase in the strength and performance of that overall reaction,  by not using any diamagnets,  just use permanent-magnets,   the  all-permanent-magnet-full-levitation  designs in the first post,   particularly the  Magnetic-Sled .
  (  The designs on the other thread containing my  slightly more complicated all-permanent-magnet-full-levitation  designs,  which work at any angle in relation to gravity,   would be too stable for your idea  )

Why can't people post pictures of just the simplest  all-permanent-magnet-full-levitation  contraptions,  even though it is not stable levitation,  they still remain levitating,  without touching any other object
   
(   That picture of the 2 magnets out of a microwave,  is not full-levitation, it's touching the wooden axle .
     Even though it's almost impossible to buy magnets of the correct dimensions for   all-permanent-magnet-full-levitation,  your could use small button-shaped magnets to make the array of tiny magnets spaced apart from each other,  over which a  Magnetic-Sled  could levitate or glide .       On some magnet manufacturers websites,  they have a product that could serve as the Magnetic-Sled,  it's called some type of magnetic tray,  or tray magnet,  it's similar to,  and something to do with trays   )

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2016, 09:03:26 PM »
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Offline Nink

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2016, 06:30:54 AM »
The Bismuth turned up.  100grams is not a lot. lucky I actually purchased 2 * 100 grams I wanted to make 2 levitating devices.  I melted it down and made 2 plates 100 grams each about 5 cm in diameter and 5mm thick for a single levitation device. (Recommend maybe 200 grams per slug, not sure I had enough).   I could only get a small magnet to levitate between the distance of 3 pennies but it works.   I tried other magnets with various results.  Neo Ring magnets seem to work best but can't confirm mine broke while testing. I melted down the bismuth a few times and tried different thickness, diameters but did not seem to make a lot of difference but not scientific although thinner 5mm less diamagnetic (magnet is attracted  more to pulling magnet) and thicker 1cm more diamagnetic (magnet moves away from pulling magnet) 

I am not sure of the variables that you can play with.

1) Distance between Bismuth slugs
2) Thickness of Bismuth slugs
3) Distance to edge slugs
4) Type / Shape of levitated magnet (ring square cube)
5) polarity of levitated magent (N or S up)
6) Type / Shape of pulling magnet
7) Polarity of pulling magnet (No or S)
8) If you add a pushing magnet underneath
..........

All of these need to be experimented.  The goal I guess would be to come up with a formula or a mathematical model, if it doesn't already exist, to predict what configuration you would need to scale the levitation.  I am most interested in single bottom plate levitation pushing the magnet on top. 

Also although it spins quite freely when you blow on it with a straw it slows down fairly quickly.  A lot of my failed OU projects spin for longer without power so I think maybe there are eddy currents slowing it down even though we are counteracting gravitational force.  Maybe different shape magnets may help and could be my copper pennies :-). 



Offline sm0ky2

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2016, 07:36:30 AM »
When bismuth is melted, then allowed to cool, it forms into its' natural crystalline alignment.
Meaning, the magnetic domains within the crystal structure (which are only diamagnetic on one vector!!) are scattered. they face in all directions.

the diamagnetism, then presents itself (slightly) in all vectors. Along with ferromagnetic and non magnetic domains.

In order to align these diamagnetic domains, the bismuth must be cooled in the presence of a magnetic field. Only then can the full diamagnetic effects of Bismuth be demonstrated.


Offline Nink

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2016, 07:57:08 AM »
When bismuth is melted, then allowed to cool, it forms into its' natural crystalline alignment.
Meaning, the magnetic domains within the crystal structure (which are only diamagnetic on one vector!!) are scattered. they face in all directions.

the diamagnetism, then presents itself (slightly) in all vectors. Along with ferromagnetic and non magnetic domains.

In order to align these diamagnetic domains, the bismuth must be cooled in the presence of a magnetic field. Only then can the full diamagnetic effects of Bismuth be demonstrated.

Good to know I will melt and try again with Magnets during cooling, Originally I had 2 nice flat round disks and yeah it worked then I made 1 crystalized disk for fun and it still worked. 

Interesting enough I was trying to spin the magnet with a high powered Laser and it did start to rotate but quickly heated up then rose to the top and hit the bismuth, so temperature is another factor that needs to be taken into account.  I will check out the journals at work tomorrow and see if someone has written any decent papers on this. I am sure some university student must have explored this effect, sounds like a great subject for a doctoral  thesis to me.


Offline SoManyWires

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2016, 08:38:22 AM »
Good to know I will melt and try again with Magnets during cooling, Originally I had 2 nice flat round disks and yeah it worked then I made 1 crystalized disk for fun and it still worked. 

Interesting enough I was trying to spin the magnet with a high powered Laser and it did start to rotate but quickly heated up then rose to the top and hit the bismuth, so temperature is another factor that needs to be taken into account.  I will check out the journals at work tomorrow and see if someone has written any decent papers on this. I am sure some university student must have explored this effect, sounds like a great subject for a doctoral  thesis to me.

nice work! a levitation of magic carpet.
wonder if magnets could encourage the bismuth crystal formation so that would direct itself towards the magnet or magnets to somehow control the resulting shapes as well.

guess you already checked to know about the temperature used to do this reshaping of the materials at this point.
remember reading that some people had the stuff explode and that could ruin someones day without goggles on or some sort of shield.
what was the wattage of the laser you are working with? not sounding like a laser pointer. industrial grade cutter?

or if it can be shaped using pressure while its heated, the bismuth itself rather than any crystal formations.
to control heat of the sort of press being used for this, a hammer or other useful metal allowed to heat up to the same temperature as the bismuth does in the pot of water.
not saying strike the material, rather use slow pressure applied to reshape the bismuth with the hammer or something while its in the water carefully.



Offline Nink

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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2016, 01:59:21 PM »
what was the wattage of the laser you are working with? not sounding like a laser pointer. industrial grade cutter?

It was just a 5W 445nm solid state laser. You can pick them up on ebay for $50 to $60.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5W-445nm-Blue-light-Laser-Pointer-Beam-Cigarette-with-Burn-Match-GSE-/252229643652?hash=item3aba0eed84:g:BkoAAOSwHPlWgblI
Still fairly dangerous firing at a spinning shiny surface. need appropriate wavelength goggles.


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Re: All Permanent-Magnet Complete Levitation
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2016, 01:59:21 PM »

 

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