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Author Topic: ROC  (Read 16004 times)

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #90 on: April 26, 2018, 06:24:56 PM »
So I then increase the mass of the yellow "clacker" circles from 0.768kg to 2.0kg and the gain goes away and shows as a small cost.

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Re: ROC
« Reply #90 on: April 26, 2018, 06:24:56 PM »

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #91 on: April 26, 2018, 06:28:45 PM »
Then I increase the spring constant and there is a larger cost, 481J

It is this condition that got me thinking, not with this exact sim and not with this exact setup.

I asked myself where is this energy going and how is it getting there.  I had other setups that were showing a large power difference but a net zero energy and things along those lines which really got me wondering about what is happening.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #92 on: April 26, 2018, 07:06:08 PM »
Since the only thing that can be accelerating is the arm\mass parts then if I let it run for a while they should come to an equilibrium of sorts and things should drop to a net zero.

-4.7J is close enough for now.

Now there is all this motion, all this force and it all is not really hard linked together, if it was then the acceleration would of been instant, that is the arms\masses would of been at speed with the wheel motor period, but there is a dynamic link between them.
What force is compressing the spring?  What force is the spring creating when it expands?  Simple questions.
Where and how is this force exchanged?

What if "I" could control that exchange?
What if "I" put something in the middle of that conservative exchange?

In my other data dumps I have shared, that is what I am doing.  I have put a "control" system in the middle and am using the conservative exchange of potentials in such a way as to not stop the exchange.
I am conserving Momentum, or I at least I should say I am allowing Momentum to be conserved but through my control device, like a dam on a river.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #93 on: April 26, 2018, 07:43:43 PM »
I think then with what I have shown so far it is reasonable to say that "I" as the operator have put in the energy to compress the spring and spin the system up to speed.  This energy is now stored within the system.  This energy is in a constant state of exchange, it is oscillating between momentum of the arms\masses and compression of the spring and is seen by the torque required from the wheel motor.

There is a potential that some may not consider.  The red arm on the dual interconnected pic that connects the two arms together creates a closed system between those two arms, this then also means that the momentum of those arms can be conserved.
What if I were to take the relative momentum of one of those arms\masses and transfer it to the other one? 
Would the other one then need to accelerate to store that momentum? 
What other forces would change with that transfer change of momentum? 
What is observing all of this? 
How would that point of observation change?

I have provided the data for at least 3 different ways of interacting, one where I control the rate of change of the arms\masses relative to the wheel and each other, one where I control the wheel rate of rotation and one where I control both.

I have asked myself these questions and I have come up with my own answers and then used those answers to try and make the system act the way I want it to.

This concept can be used in other ways, I am sure of that, as well as I am sure there are better ways of doing it mechanically than what I came up with.

We understand all that is around us mainly by what we see, the mechanical universe if you will,, so if we can see that universe in a slightly different way we might be able to create new things and gain a higher level of understanding of what we see.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #94 on: April 26, 2018, 08:59:59 PM »
The center to center measurements
Long arms 10
Short arms 4
Cross arms 8
pivot from axle 4

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: ROC
« Reply #94 on: April 26, 2018, 08:59:59 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #95 on: April 27, 2018, 05:29:14 PM »
I took this sim and dropped it down to only 1 system.
It is still rotating at 180 degrees per second and the masses are the same as well as the spring.
What I did do was to add a very simple control device.
Here is the data from that.

I included a spring with no force constant between the masses so there is a relative velocity for comparison and to look for any significant change in that velocity.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #96 on: April 27, 2018, 06:06:03 PM »
Then I adjusted the control device which is not shown.

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Re: ROC
« Reply #96 on: April 27, 2018, 06:06:03 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #97 on: April 27, 2018, 07:08:58 PM »
Now I have added a load,, an output

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #98 on: April 27, 2018, 07:10:29 PM »
Then I increased the frames per second for a closer look

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #99 on: April 27, 2018, 09:51:59 PM »
FYI,
Wheel radius is 4.5m

2.0400000000e+000 long arm  kg
8.4000000000e-001 short arm  kg
6.3617251235e+001 wheel  kg
1.6400000000e+000 cross arm  kg
6.0000000000e+000 spring rest length  m
5.0000000000e+004 spring constant N/m

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: ROC
« Reply #99 on: April 27, 2018, 09:51:59 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #100 on: April 28, 2018, 06:34:34 AM »
I might be wrong but I think that it is important to observe and understand that the system prior to the inclusion of the "control" device is a conservative mechanical oscillator.
I think this understanding of the conditions prior to the use of the "control" device makes it easier to understand that it is still only a conservative mechanical oscillator with the "control" device active and a load being taken out of the system.

In this setup there is no new energy being created or destroyed and that all the energy is accounted for.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #101 on: April 28, 2018, 04:28:04 PM »
I am trying to save this run as an .avi but am having issues getting a file that will actually play,,,

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #102 on: April 28, 2018, 08:42:05 PM »
While I am waiting for some feedback on how to make a video of the sim running I got a little carried away.
I idealized the sim by replacing all of the long arms and cross arms with rods,, they are ideal and massless, I increased the circle masses to 15kg.

If I could only get them to play nicely together, they keep doing sort of what they want and not like I want them to, that would be running at basically 90 degrees.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #103 on: April 29, 2018, 05:18:06 PM »
One of the things that I find interesting is that if you do not operate this system correctly you do not see anything but a nice oscillation, that is it will act exactly the same, as say, an RLC circuit, a nice sine wave.  When you operate it correctly you get the wave forms I have shown.

Offline webby1

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Re: ROC
« Reply #104 on: April 29, 2018, 10:11:56 PM »
On the "more-fum"  testbed setup,, that is a 1MW setup, well almost 1 mega-watt of output :)  all that in a 30^2m box.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: ROC
« Reply #104 on: April 29, 2018, 10:11:56 PM »

 

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