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Author Topic: Ambient heat engine  (Read 3942 times)

Offline skaterboyles

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Ambient heat engine
« on: December 06, 2015, 04:44:16 PM »
Ambient heat engine
I don’t understand why there’s so much discussion about free energy. We’ve already got wind turbines PV panels etc. and why doesn’t someone build the Tesla self acting engine? I suspect it’s because it’s too expensive.
Anyway I intend to have a go myself. I couldn’t find a good description of this device so I thought “how hard can it be” and sat down with pen and paper. My first two attempts were obviously not viable but then after several months I tried again and in 20 minutes I came up with a rough version of my attached sketch. I’m going to start by building a simple heat pump using air con parts then do some experiments with that and then gradually build it up into something like what’s in my sketch. I don’t yet know what working fluids to use, I’ll start simple and experiment.
I can’t see any reason why my device won’t work, absorbing ambient heat isn’t difficult, see the green section in the sketch, then all you need is to boost the temperature high enough to power an engine driving an alternator. In my sketch this is achieved with a two stage heat pump. If this is inadequate or too much then any number of stages of heat pump can be used.
A high degree of efficiency is not required in any part of the device as the vast majority of the losses can be fed back in, if necessary using cold Rankin fluid to cool parts of the device then feed it back to the boiler.   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Ambient heat engine
« on: December 06, 2015, 04:44:16 PM »

Offline seychelles

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Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2015, 09:29:46 AM »
I am very happy you raise this subject the most abundant energy on this planet is ambient heat.
And i have had this discussion before with several people that a normal air conditioner using R22 IS
ABOUT COP 3.. And it amaze me that here in OZ we do not heat up our household water with a small
mode using a small heat exchange within THE AIR CON..There is already such things but not marketed here..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2015, 10:02:07 PM »
@skaterboyles,


I do not normally enter into these sort of topics, but as you have stated you intend to spend a lot of time an money I felt I should tell you that it really is not going to work, and if you think about it there must have been 10 million competent engineers before you that did such a sketch, got excited, built it and then found out that it does not and cannot work.


It is not whether you believe me, but rather that you have a reality check and ask yourself if you have created something so different and novel from your predecessors that it has some merit in being pursued? If not then you are simply travelling down the same doomed pathway of millions of other well meaning but amateur engineers.


There are many here that can tell you why it will not work in detail, but let me simply say to you that a heat engine converting heat derived from compressing a working fluid will not deliver enough energy for you to compress (and so heat) the working fluid by which the heat engine works.


If you have time and money you wish to spend you should direct it towards new research and ideas.


Regards


Phil H

Offline skaterboyles

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Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2016, 06:09:26 PM »
I've just started work on my ambient heat engine. Any comments will be most welcome. See here: http://johnparlour.wixsite.com/free-energy


Offline webby1

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Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2016, 09:22:17 PM »
Your site requires javascript,, some do not allow that to run and so when they go to your site they will see nothing,, a small note added to your page that tells them to allow javascript for your site might be helpful.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2016, 09:22:17 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline pomodoro

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Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2016, 12:50:54 AM »
You will need a refrigerant with a very high temp at the end of the compression cycle as the gain is only that of latent heat , which Is a gain in heat capacity but at the same temp.The Carnot cycle at the end is the biggest problem, so inefficient at low temp differentials.

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2016, 04:37:06 AM »
I've just started work on my ambient heat engine. Any comments will be most welcome. See here: http://johnparlour.wixsite.com/free-energy


Seriously skater / john, you are wasting your skills time and money on an already flogged horse. IMHO you should use your energy on things that have a chance, and there are many good causes in energy. Regards Phil

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2016, 04:37:06 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline webby1

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Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2016, 08:25:51 AM »
What takes more energy.

Accelerating 1kg of gas up to 1000m/s or taking 1kg of liquid and accelerating it up to 1000m/s

Which one has the most stored energy.

Heat pumps,,

Offline memoryman

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Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2016, 03:10:05 PM »
John, looking at your site, I see some good ideas. The idea of using heat pumps to 'self-loop' is possible, but not yet practical. Imho, the obstacle is the refridgerant.
I'll be happy to comment further after spending more time reading your ideas.
Bill

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2016, 05:38:50 PM »
John, looking at your site, I see some good ideas. The idea of using heat pumps to 'self-loop' is possible, but not yet practical. Imho, the obstacle is the refridgerant.
I'll be happy to comment further after spending more time reading your ideas.
Bill


John please ignore Bill's opinion about what is possible, he won't be there to compensate you for the time and money you will waste.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2016, 05:38:50 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline webby1

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Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2016, 06:25:17 PM »

Seriously skater / john, you are wasting your skills time and money on an already flogged horse. IMHO you should use your energy on things that have a chance, and there are many good causes in energy. Regards Phil

What are the hurdles that have been flogged to death?

The main one I see is in condensing the collected heat into a small enough area and therefore raise the heat density enough for extraction.

Offline memoryman

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Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2016, 07:54:11 PM »
Philip, considering your track record of bringing products to market, your remarks don't carry much weight.
Although I was (and am) supporting you in the pursuit of a Quenco like device, you have never succeeding in a practical product.


Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2016, 10:45:26 PM »
Philip, considering your track record of bringing products to market, your remarks don't carry much weight.
Although I was (and am) supporting you in the pursuit of a Quenco like device, you have never succeeding in a practical product.


Ooh, owch, but Bill if you think that is a fair comment then it would serve to warn our friend that it takes a small fortune, 6 PhD's and many years to then have idiots make snide remarks about things they know nothing about. I can with 100% confidence say that, no arrangement of compression and expansion, using any refrigerant known to man, will ever achieve closed loop operation with excess energy out when operating from a single (ambient) reservoir of heat with no lower temperature heat sink used.


If you want to talk BS you should use your own money and not give encouragement to a nice and skilled man, like our friend, to waste his own.

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2016, 11:29:28 PM »
What are the hurdles that have been flogged to death?


The idea that heat pumps and heat engines can ever defeat the Carnot limit, and so as Pomodoro points out you will not scavenge free energy from ambient using such technology. Whilst home heat pumps can achieve exceptional heating efficiency yielding, say 4kW of heat output for 1kW of electrical input, the heat so scavenged from ambient is insufficient if used in a perfect heat engine (say a Stirling), to produce 1kW of electrical output so required to make a closed loop perpetual motion scheme.


This is a fact and despite 1,000s of amateurs hoping otherwise, it remains the issue that has been flogged to death for 150+ years.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline webby1

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Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2017, 08:47:51 AM »

The idea that heat pumps and heat engines can ever defeat the Carnot limit, and so as Pomodoro points out you will not scavenge free energy from ambient using such technology. Whilst home heat pumps can achieve exceptional heating efficiency yielding, say 4kW of heat output for 1kW of electrical input, the heat so scavenged from ambient is insufficient if used in a perfect heat engine (say a Stirling), to produce 1kW of electrical output so required to make a closed loop perpetual motion scheme.


This is a fact and despite 1,000s of amateurs hoping otherwise, it remains the issue that has been flogged to death for 150+ years.

Indeed, with all attempts that I am aware of that have been made public the energy needed to condense the the gathered heat energy to raise it above the ambient  or provide for a lower sink in an ideal condition would only reach a 1:1,, but with losses of any added device they have ended up with less.

Transferring the heat from one place to another may take less energy than that needed to produce the heat transferred.

With that being what it is, what is the first hurdle, is it in collecting the heat from the ambient, condensing or compressing it, or returning it to the ambient.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ambient heat engine
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2017, 08:47:51 AM »

 

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