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Author Topic: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?  (Read 56709 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2015, 04:36:27 AM »
I'd follow RMS before you MH. No offence but RMS has been very generous with his time and info over the years and always up front whilst encouraging others. Not a slight on you but rigorous support for this bloke. To cast aspersions anonymously says more about you than him. I don't about over there but over here 0.62 is not a penny stock. They are 152% up on the year so I think their investors would be very happy.

This guy is putting himself out there and presumably thousands of people have expressed their opinions anonymously about the two companies he is affiliated with.  That's the way it works.  I seriously doubt the investors are "happy" when apparently nothing tangible has been delivered from Sunvault Energy after four years and the latest pitch is an "electric supercar" that is likely never to be delivered by the end of Q1 2016 - if ever.  Pitching an "electric supercar" falls right in line with companies that pitch a turn-key product that supposedly incorporates their technology instead of pitching their technology itself and letting it stand alone on its own merits.  This is like Bill Alek pitching an "electric bicycle that never needs recharging" from two years ago that never happened when what he was really supposed to be pitching was a "magic switching and phasing device" that produced free energy.

Just because you come off as a "nice guy" doesn't mean that what you present is considered good data without having to look at it.  He makes a glaring error, it's so bad that if you were emotionally invested in his company and had a lot of money tied up in it then you would be extremely upset.

Going a bit further back, he makes big claims about his credit card sized capacitor being 2000 farads but he presents no data at all to back up the claim.  I don't believe it, and he would have to prove it.  However, taking into account this latest clip who knows if he can really prove it or not.  If you are researching capacitors you are supposed to know your stuff.

Then there was a clip where he is proud of himself for "tap charging" one of his prototype capacitors.  He makes another serious technical mistake.

I told him several times on YouTube that he needs to make credible measurements of the size of his capacitor and he balked.  I told him that he made a mistake with the "tap charging" and he balked at that also.  Perhaps that's why he is allegedly showing some test data for the EESD.  He dismissed the idea of showing test data for his capacitors and as anyone can see from the comments on his EESD clip people are very enthusiastic that he did do some testing - allegedly.

Coming back to this EESD, he makes a godawful mistake in this clip under discussion.  If almost nobody can figure it out between the YouTube comments, and contributors to this forum, then it just shows you how easy it is to pull the wool over people's eyes.  Hence, looking at other players, between Inteligentry and Hydro Energy Revolution about three million dollars worth of people's investment money was poured down the drain.  I am not equating these companies with Sunvault Energy or Edison Power, I am just illustrating how you have to be aware of what is going on.  People doing research have to demonstrate competency and if they don't then red flags need to be raised.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline MagnaProp

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2015, 05:22:46 AM »
This guy is putting himself out there...
No risk, no reward...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHWDdpYc9v0

I noticed a couple places where he said the values was .01 when the meter clearly showed .08 but I could care less since he said he wasn't trying to be super accurate in that presentation.

...
I told him several times on YouTube that he needs to make credible measurements of the size of his capacitor and he balked.
...
I noticed a troll on one of his videos hounding him about test data to which he apparently deleted his replies to. Anyone we know ;)


Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2015, 05:51:38 AM »
I noticed a troll on one of his videos hounding him about test data to which he apparently deleted his replies to. Anyone we know ;)

You can kiss my ass because I am no troll.  He deleted his replies because he realized that he was making himself look like a fool.  The request was 100% legitimate but you apparently want to be comfortably numb.  Go invest in Inteligentry and Hydro Energy Revolution then and don't ask any questions.  Asking questions makes you a bad person and a troll.  You are supposed to enforce not asking questions and tow the party line.  Ignore the huge mistake in the measurements that make the clip a farce.  That makes you a good party member in good standing.

Offline Jimboot

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2015, 05:56:27 AM »
You can kiss my ass because I am no troll.  He deleted his replies because he realized that he was making himself look like a fool.  The request was 100% legitimate but you apparently want to be comfortably numb.  Go invest in Inteligentry and Hydro Energy Revolution then and don't ask any questions.  Asking questions makes you a bad person and a troll.  You are supposed to enforce not asking questions and tow the party line.  That makes you a good party member in good standing.
aaah so you're that guy... the commenter that RMS rejected. LOL He did a bunch of vids saying he would delete your comments if you were rude or obnoxious. hopefully you weren't  :D


Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2015, 06:05:04 AM »
aaah so you're that guy... the commenter that RMS rejected. LOL He did a bunch of vids saying he would delete your comments if you were rude or obnoxious. hopefully you weren't  :D

What are you LOLing about?  And, no, I was not rude or obnoxious.  I asked him about measurements and he balked and then deleted my comments on his two clips where I raised the issue.

RMS got rude and obnoxious on LaserSaber's clip and then deleted all his comments.

So what are we looking at here?  Two people that don't want to see measurements and object to requests for measurements and don't want to know why the clip under discussion has a catastrophic error?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2015, 06:05:04 AM »
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Offline Jimboot

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2015, 06:10:48 AM »
What are you LOLing about?  And, no, I was not rude or obnoxious.  I asked him about measurements and he balked and then deleted my comments on his two clips where I raised the issue.

RMS got rude and obnoxious on LaserSaber's clip and then deleted all his comments.

So what are we looking at here?  Two people that don't want to see measurements and object to requests for measurements and don't want to know why the clip under discussion has a catastrophic error?
Two people? Now I'm not following you. Also I don't have time (nor probably the pay grade) to "play spot the error" with you. Why the guessing game?

Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2015, 06:18:21 AM »
This is a forum about research into energy and if you can't spot a glaring error in a clip like being discussed it shows how easy it is to deceive people.  It's to make people think twice about any clip they watch.

Quoting myself:
Quote
A Maxwell K2Series BCAP 2000 Farad ultracapacitor is in a can that is 10 cm long x 6 cm in diameter.  In one of your clips you claim that you made a home-brew 2000 Farad capacitor that is roughly the size of a credit card.  Let us be conservative and say that you are claiming 10X the energy density by volume with your credit card sized capacitor that you claim is 2000 Farads.

Did RMS really make a 2000 farad capacitor the size of a credit card?  Show me the data because right now I don't believe it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2015, 06:18:21 AM »
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Offline Jimboot

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2015, 06:21:30 AM »
This is a forum about research into energy and if you can't spot a glaring error in a clip like being discussed it shows how easy it is to deceive people.  It's to make people think twice about any clip they watch.

Quoting myself:
Did RMS really make a 2000 farad capacitor the size of a credit card?  Show me the data because right now I don't believe it.
oh so you're teaching? Cool. Cos it read like you were accusing someone of being dishonest.

Offline MagnaProp

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2015, 06:53:59 AM »
...I am no troll...
Sorry if I offended. I don't know who it was and I suspect we may never know :)

He stated in his video that he wasn't trying to be super accurate. I also don't know if the part where he misstates the measurements seen on the meters was narrated at a later time, causing the misstatement. He was very liberal in his measurements saying that even if the lithium battery was twice what he calculated, his device would still blow it out the water. So his math is irrelevant to me in that his device either does as claimed or it doesn't which we'll find out soon enough it sounds like.

Another reason for letting his measurements slide is that I'm personally not to impressed with "experts" that scrutinize every detail ever since I had ex NASA people hound me on a flying project I did. I confirmed that they had in fact worked for NASA in the past. They said I couldn't build it and yet it flew a few weeks later. I am far from a genius but that's why I let the measurements in your video slide. That and me and math don't get along at all. I got into calculus where the teacher started telling us how imaginary numbers get infinitely close to 0 but never quite got there. Well "i" got infinitely close to passing the class but never quite got there ;D

...Did RMS really make a 2000 farad capacitor the size of a credit card?  Show me the data because right now I don't believe it.
As I recall Tinmans Trifene cap was around 2600 and looked smaller than the RMS device so it seems plausible to me.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2015, 07:36:49 AM »
As I recall Tinmans Trifene cap was around 2600 and looked smaller than the RMS device so it seems plausible to me.

Apology accepted and Tinman is in the same boat for the capacitors as far as I am concerned.  I looked at one of his capacitor clips, I think that it may have been the clip where he claims 2600 farads.  He just makes the claim without showing any measurements, almost as if the claim was plucked out of thin air.  Where is his number coming from?  I posted on his YT clip and he didn't reply.

He mentions a certain amount of time was required to charge his capacitor or he shows it in the clip.  Let's say it was three minutes, I don't recall exactly.  I did a very rough calculation and concluded that for three minutes the average charging power provided by his bench power supply wold have to be something like 20 watts to charge the supercap to the final voltage.  Just from eyeballing the clip, I did not get a sense at all that the charging power was that high.  Of course this is all subjective on my part but I have a decent sense for things like this.

It all comes back to being honest with yourself and doing your own due diligence and making honest credible measurements on your creations for your own satisfaction.  It can be an amateur experimenter or a semi-pro or a pro, it doesn't matter.  If you are going to make your own capacitor or your own battery then the spirit of this forum is to share your results and that includes measurements done to the best of your ability, especially if you are making a claim that borders on extraordinary.

If you don't do that then there is no difference from you as an honest experimenter and someone like one of the infamous Rohner brothers.  They have both been pitching their silly "PAP engine" variations for going on 20 years and they have never done measurements that I am aware of.

Can you really make a better capacitor than a giant company that has been in the business of making capacitors for 60 years and has hundreds of millions of dollars worth of manufacturing equipment and a team of 100 design, manufacturing, and test engineers?  The short answer is yes you can.  The catch is you have to prove it to yourself and to your peers by showing credible measurements.  You can't "sleepwalk" though things like this, you have to be honest with yourself for a start.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2015, 07:36:49 AM »
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Offline seychelles

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2015, 10:54:36 AM »
who my good buddy MICROMLOW is a troll not.but for you microm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJUWCRq-sCk

Offline Nink

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2015, 02:30:09 PM »
Did RMS really make a 2000 farad capacitor the size of a credit card?  Show me the data because right now I don't believe it.

Milehigh I appreciate your skepticism. Maybe you need to build a team who can officially request one of his creditcard supercapacitors and calculate actual Farad. I am sure we can come up with an agreed and calibrated test method to validate the claim. Any suggestions on an accurate test method (or a method accurate enough to meet your needs - measure charge time | discharge time with a known load that is calibrated with a commercial cap that's 2000 Farads). 

I noticed a couple places where he said the values was .01 when the meter clearly showed .08 but I could care less since he said he wasn't trying to be super accurate in that presentation.
Not sure where you are referring to.  He did say .01g on the scales when it read .08 but I think everyone watching realized he was doing the math in his head.  First he weighed the paper (he did not zero out the scale with paper on it) .07g then he weighed negative material .075g but he read .005 on the scale subtracting in his head,  Finally he weighed the active material and the scale read .08 so he said .01g of material. 


Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2015, 02:52:32 PM »
Milehigh I appreciate your skepticism. Maybe you need to build a team who can officially request one of his creditcard supercapacitors and calculate actual Farad. I am sure we can come up with an agreed and calibrated test method to validate the claim. Any suggestions on an accurate test method (or a method accurate enough to meet your needs - measure charge time | discharge time with a known load that is calibrated with a commercial cap that's 2000 Farads). 

There is no need for a team to do this.  Also, the person building the device, whether it be a supercapacitor or a battery, should be able to make measurements and demonstrate competence in what they are doing.  There is no need for hand-holding here.

The weighing of the materials was problematic because there was so little available and the measurements were at the extreme lower limit of the resolution of the digital scale.  That could have been improved upon by weighing 10 times the amount of material for both cases.  However, I am not concerned about that, it's just quibbling relative to another issue.

There is an elephant in the room that makes other debatable aspects of the clip pale by comparison.

MileHigh

Offline minnie

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2015, 04:42:35 PM »



 I feel MH. is a bit out of order with RMS.
 If there's a serious error don't play games.
 I'm sure RMS. would be happy to discuss
 things if they were addressed in the proper
 manner.
 Riddles won't get anyone anywhere!


Offline memoryman

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2015, 04:44:56 PM »
MH, do not lump John P Rohner in with Bob Rohner; they are completely different.
I have found Bob to be honest and open; John is a different beast.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2015, 04:44:56 PM »

 

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