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Author Topic: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?  (Read 49678 times)

Offline MileHigh

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-aOPQ9_MyM

Quote
This gives some construction and performance details on the battery style EESD or B type - an obvious acronym if you think about it - it's long but i know some folks will find it interesting but be warned it's not one to try and browse through.

Are there any issues with this clip?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline SoManyWires

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2015, 12:35:27 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-aOPQ9_MyM

Are there any issues with this clip?

worked ok, could even understand the english accent.

those mAh numbers he suggests are serious.


Offline minnie

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2015, 02:43:05 PM »



   This thing looks amazing.
   The downside has to be the discharge curve, the wonderful thing about
   the lithium cell is the fact that the potential remains high for a long period.
    To successfully employ Robert's offering some sophisticated electronics
   appear to be needed to yield a constant voltage.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2015, 07:04:12 PM »
This is not about any YouTube playback issues, the clip plays just fine.  I know that Minnie isn't really hard-core technical, I don't know for SoManyWires.  You don't need sophisticated electronics to maintain a constant voltage, voltage converters are manufactured in the hundreds of millions or billions each year.  So their remains a serious issue, and from that issue stems a lot of other ramifications that are old themes that we are all way too familiar with.


Offline Jimboot

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2015, 09:19:07 PM »
This is not about any YouTube playback issues, the clip plays just fine.  I know that Minnie isn't really hard-core technical, I don't know for SoManyWires.  You don't need sophisticated electronics to maintain a constant voltage, voltage converters are manufactured in the hundreds of millions or billions each year.  So their remains a serious issue, and from that issue stems a lot of other ramifications that are old themes that we are all way too familiar with.
Are you suggesting his measurements are wrong? Or methodology erroneous?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2015, 09:19:07 PM »
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Offline minnie

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2015, 10:15:10 PM »



  Yes MH, we've got a Tesla p85d and it does work.
 I think the battery voltage is something like 350 v.
 The thing becomes unfeasable in my mind if your
  supply voltage is halved.
  Half the voltage means double the current.
  I don't think it would work!!
  I realise I'm only a farmer and to me this is just the
  application of logic.
  A cell phone may be all well and good, a sporty car no.

Offline Nink

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2015, 11:11:57 PM »
First don't get me wrong I have followed Dr Robert Murray Smith for years and usually replicate a lot of his work but I do think Dr Smith does take a little bit of a scientific license with his calculations. 
 1) He uses numbers on the side of the Li Ion battery. The rating levels on a Li Ion battery may not be accurate and could be higher or lower than what is on the manufacturers product. Would the mA/h be lower or higher? Why?
2) He decided it was 13 cells for the Li Ion battery but there seemed to be some confusion when he unraveled it if it was 12 or 13. That would actually play in his favor if it was only 12.
3) Next he used grafoil in his example as the cathode and the anode and this has different electrical properties than copper and aluminum  If they play no part in the active process and only act as conductors perhaps he could do a side by comparison on copper and aluminum.  In the next video C type EESD he uses a thin graphite nano particle coated substrate for his conductors.
4) He was using a water based electrolyte in his separator,  is this practical to keep a separator wet in production or would he have to use a separator similar to the Li Ion Battery in production. 

That said the super capacitor batteries are  far superior to a regular Li Ion but I would prefer to the see a full side by side comparison on a cell by cell bases both under the same load and conditions.

The two products he was using I believe the black is probably a mixture of a graphene doped graphite and a binder like gum arabic and a preservative (he usually uses euxyl PE 9010 I believe).    The green product, I really don't know but sitting on his desk in the video is a green powder and another powder in a container so if anyone has a high res monitor you can probably get a hint. 




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2015, 11:11:57 PM »
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Offline minnie

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2015, 11:22:54 PM »



 I did a bit of thinking whilst doing work and came up with a solution
that sort of satisfied my mind.
 If the EES is as good as it's cracked up to be one way would be this:
say my car needs 350v. you could start off with a 700v. storage system
and then use it down to 350v. I can see a possibility of doing this
via switching or what ever.
 There's load of exciting things  coming along such as a 6 inch thyristor.
This will allow the construction of UHVDC. lines which will get round the
problem of capacitance.
   

Offline Nink

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2015, 11:39:24 PM »

 If the EES is as good as it's cracked up to be one way would be this:
say my car needs 350v. you could start off with a 700v. storage system
and then use it down to 350v.
 
I agree and I think that is what he was trying to say in roundabout way.  His power to weight ratio is much higher.  So he can get around this pretty easy by doubling or even quadrupling  the number of cells and still have a lighter and lower cost battery with a longer life span.  The limiting factor is obviously mass production of single layer graphene at an affordable price and coming up with some form of designed obsolescence built into the device.  You can't have a battery that lasts forever ....

Offline tinman

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2015, 12:19:40 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-aOPQ9_MyM

Are there any issues with this clip?

Well i  watched the clip,and did not hear a specified discharge current for the lithium ion battery-which will determine how much current over time that it can deliver at the rated voltage. Just because your battery says for example !70 amp hour!,dose not mean it will deliver 70 amps for one hour at the batteries rated voltage. If no specific current draw or time is given with that amp hour rating,then it is normally over a period of 8 hours<-- SLA's.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2015, 12:19:40 AM »
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Offline minnie

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2015, 12:28:42 AM »



 It's one of the most promising things I've seen on here.
 I just hope it isn't money going to RMS's mind and that
he won't start giving us dubious results.
  I honestly can't see anything ever coming from magnets
and wires that most all are obsessed with.
   What we need to do is harvest energy from the Sun and
move it around and store it. The efficiency of devices has
made major advances, some things requiring a tenth of the
energy that they did when I was a kid.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2015, 01:53:55 AM »
4) He was using a water based electrolyte in his separator,  is this practical to keep a separator wet in production or would he have to use a separator similar to the Li Ion Battery in production. 

He made what I would consider a bizarre statement even though I am just a lay person relative to his graphene based battery research.   He says something about the test being done with a simple water based electrolyte but if he had the proper electrolyte he would get a higher voltage and "much more" out of his test cell.  Really?  Just changing the electrolyte means you can now extract more energy from the chemical compounds?   It sounds fishy to me.

In a semi related manner, Sunvault Energy and Edison Power are supposedly going to show an "electric supercar" within four months based on the batteries and caps etc.  If you do a little digging, the claims on the car are ridiculous and are being completely trashed by both technical people and by the investment community.  It casts a very long and dubious shadow over their "electric supercar" pitch and the two companies themselves.  Robert is on the board of directors of Sunvault Energy.  Sunvault Energy company is a typical penny stock company with big claims and not much to show for it.  Don't hold your breath for the supercar.

Nobody has spotted the main issue, but one person is a little bit warm.   In the comments on the YouTbe clip, not a single person has mentioned it either.  It's almost shocking, like sheep being led off to slaughter.


Offline MagnaProp

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2015, 03:14:45 AM »
I wish RMS the best with this endeavor. He has provides a ton of info on Graphene to us that he didn't have to for free. It's good to hear that he is on the board of directors with a company that is trying to bring this to the masses. Even Tesla and his claims were ridiculed at times. Sometimes you have to make a product sound a little flashier than it may ultimately be but that is called marketing and doesn't mean it is a scam. So many people ready to cut you down when the jealously of not coming up with the idea themselves seeps in. It doesn't take long watching Mr. Smith's videos to know that he is the farthest thing from a scam artist. I'd gladly follow him off a cliff before some others I have seen. I wish him the best on this one.

Now to get some gotoluc flyback spikes into these things and we are off to mars ;D

Offline Jimboot

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2015, 03:26:19 AM »
He made what I would consider a bizarre statement even though I am just a lay person relative to his graphene based battery research.   He says something about the test being done with a simple water based electrolyte but if he had the proper electrolyte he would get a higher voltage and "much more" out of his test cell.  Really?  Just changing the electrolyte means you can now extract more energy from the chemical compounds?   It sounds fishy to me.

In a semi related manner, Sunvault Energy and Edison Power are supposedly going to show an "electric supercar" within four months based on the batteries and caps etc.  If you do a little digging, the claims on the car are ridiculous and are being completely trashed by both technical people and by the investment community.  It casts a very long and dubious shadow over their "electric supercar" pitch and the two companies themselves.  Robert is on the board of directors of Sunvault Energy.  Sunvault Energy company is a typical penny stock company with big claims and not much to show for it.  Don't hold your breath for the supercar.

Nobody has spotted the main issue, but one person is a little bit warm.   In the comments on the YouTbe clip, not a single person has mentioned it either.  It's almost shocking, like sheep being led off to slaughter.
I'd follow RMS before you MH. No offence but RMS has been very generous with his time and info over the years and always up front whilst encouraging others. Not a slight on you but rigorous support for this bloke. To cast aspersions anonymously says more about you than him. I don't about over there but over here 0.62 is not a penny stock. They are 152% up on the year so I think their investors would be very happy.


Offline Nink

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Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2015, 04:23:41 AM »
I am the worlds biggest skeptic and I don't believe anything until I personally see and touch it (and then I am still skeptical).  I have a lot of respect for Dr Robert Murray Smith, and as I also said, I have replicated a lot of his demonstrations, except when he keeps them secret (and the green, black and electrolyte compounds are secret). In Canada where Sunvault is registered you have one year to file for a patent. The law is similar to the US but they also have a first to file law, so I appreciate everything he posts prior to filing a patent. 

Many here are also healthy skeptics and I agree that the results look a little too amazing.  I would recommend one thing. I posted a quick and easy method to make a supercapacitor  the other day.  OK mine are not as good as Dr Smith for various reasons, (he knows what he is doing and I just copy/augment what others are doing) but the results are still crazy. http://overunity.com/13177/amazing-graphene-super-capacitor/msg466741/#msg466741 

I totally agree these are just bench test results and may not be representative of what is obtainable in production, and I would love to see some scientific reviews of his work in a controlled environment to validate his projected performance, but so far everything looks above water.  As I said, I never get scammed by anyone and I don't believe Robert is out to scam anyone either. The reason he took the job as a director for Sunvault I  believe, was simply out of frustration from not being able to move graphene technology forward.

So if others don't believe the result are as good as he says they are, then lets put them to the test.  He is not claiming overunity or unicorns and pixi dust. All he is claiming is he has developed a graphene  supercapacitor that performs like a battery with a higher power to weight ratio than a lithium ion battery. What he is claiming is not unique and there are dozens of peer reviewed articles on various methods to make supercapacitors, he just believes his is a little more efficient than others and he also has the backing of a company who just may manage to bring this into production. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A Perspective On The B Type EESD - Robert Murray-Smith - Any issues?
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2015, 04:23:41 AM »

 

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