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Author Topic: Inductive Kickback  (Read 157836 times)

tinman

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #360 on: March 08, 2018, 08:53:09 AM »
As you are well aware, I've shared much information on this site, freely and without hesitation. But that's been long after I have had the opportunity to fully explore and understand a given path looking for a given prerequisite.

At the moment I am playing with old ideas in a new way, and when I think I more fully understand the operation and limitations of the method I'm playing with, I'll directly share.

However, here's a little hint. It closely relates to an experiment carried out in 2011 and detailed on my old blog in 2012.
Page 13 Fig 2 and Fig 4 give a starting point. Some elements need changing or discarding.

https://adamsinfo.000webhostapp.com

Going over old work with a fresh eye provided by another person has presented an interesting torque result.
Not overunity, but rather, what I have been particularly looking for. An electric motor that has raw grunt under load over a broad rpm range.

Being time poor myself due to many commitments, I would not hold your breathe waiting on me to reveal a simple circuit when I know you are capable of deducing it yourself, in the meantime. The circuits shown are not exactly what I am using now, but close enough for a starting point. The changes needed are minor and few, but elemental to function for the purpose of running torque.

The method I am currently using does NOT increase maximum breaking torque (at nearly zero rpm), instead it acts like a turbo charger, increasing the running torque at higher rpm.

Cheers and don't forget we all have the capacity to K.I.S.S.  :)

Thanks Hoptoad.

I can see why the hall sensor would get fried in the emitter follower circuit (circuit A),and not in circuit B.

I will take a closer look tonight,but AM i am half way through my own pulse motor build,to see how my new coil design go's.


Brad

synchro1

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #361 on: March 08, 2018, 02:05:58 PM »
Let me guess--you have not tried this with a monofilar coil,nor have you any energy in to energy out calculations to show-->of course you will be using that magic DMM of yours to make the calculations  ::)

You have a spinning ball magnet,that closes a reed switch(twice each revolution of the ball magnet),which powers up the magical bifilar coil,which in turn provides the energy required to pump your magnetic piston that is suspended from a string,which dose what?

Keep going syncro-love reading your post's.
Dont forget to keep those insults up  ;)


@Tinman,


How can anyone pay serious attention to you when you persistently continue to misspell "does" as "dose", after having been corrected repeatedly by me in the past?

tinman

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #362 on: March 08, 2018, 02:29:47 PM »

@Tinman,


How can anyone pay serious attention to you when you persistently continue to misspell "does" as "dose", after having been corrected repeatedly by me in the past?

Here syncro--this is so you.

https://www.sciencealert.com/people-who-pick-up-grammar-mistakes-jerks-scientists-find

Quote: Scientists have found that people who constantly get bothered by grammatical errors online have "less agreeable" personalities than those who just let them slide.

Seems science even knows what type of person you are syncro--they nailed it.

tinman

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #363 on: March 08, 2018, 02:31:44 PM »

@Tinman,


How can anyone pay serious attention to you when you persistently continue to misspell "does" as "dose", after having been corrected repeatedly by me in the past?

And while we're at it,put this in ya pipe and smoke it  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxLstEtzf_M

Magluvin

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Re: Bullcrap
« Reply #364 on: March 08, 2018, 03:25:25 PM »
author=synchro1 link=topic=16203.msg517953#msg517953 date=1520472501]



So,Mags was using how many volts?--i was using 7.2
Mag's push button switch is different from a transistor being used as a switch how?
My power supply is different to a battery how?
Was Mags using a power supply or battery?

Well duh  ::)
And you need an electric field to produces an EMF across a pickup coil--is it sinking in yet?

What was the kickback voltage value in Mag's test?

Which is exactly what i was doing--> Dickhead,only i used a power supply like Mag's did.

Sooo,300 volts dropped across a coil with only 3.2 ohms resistance,and an inductive value of only 1.2mH,isnt going to produce any magnetic field ? ::)
So the power being dissipated from the 100 ohm resistor on the pickup coil-came from where?

Like i said--you are clueless.


Im going to work and will get back to reply to other stuff here after..  But this i have to address here now...


My power supply is different to a battery how?
Was Mags using a power supply or battery?"

lol.  Maybe someone that did watch my vids can inform you as to everything about my tests. Clearly you did not watch them if you cannot remember what sort of supply I used. 

Maybe you can give the nice folks here a clear explanation as to why you think your single wire coil did better than the bifi coil. Id love to hear that explanation, it might be helpful to us little folk ;)


"So,Mags was using how many volts?--i was using 7.2"

How many volts did I use Brad? .5v?  3v?  10v?  20v?  Maybe someone that actually watched my vids will go back and watch them again and keep you updated on all the details of what I had shown.. 


Ya know something, You kept asking, how many times, "what is the difference between a bifi coil and a normal coil with a cap across it?"  I show what that difference is and you post a vid claiming Mags this and Mags that. Mags switching is bad so his vid shows nothing worth looking at. Mags didnt show measurements of his coils so they must not be the same. So now you do this vid and 'claim' the the single wire coil takes on inductive kickback pulses better than a bifilar coil..  Well good for you. Now you can explain why it is that you have gotten that result?  Because my rebuttal vid is coming, and I 'did' watch your vid, and I 'do' remember what went on in your vid.  Maybe you should show an exact diagram of your circuit as I did. Just so others can try to replicate your results. ;)

Mags

hoptoad

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #365 on: March 08, 2018, 10:27:39 PM »
If the highlighted is a reference to you know who....  please say so.  Other free thinking tinkerers may begin to take the individual serious and possibly benefit as you say have.....

Regards
I omitted your name mainly because I know some individuals here would possibly automatically discard anything I might have written after it. On another note, thanks for the crumbs that led me to the cake. One day hopefully, you'll lead me to the cake topping, if I don't find it myself in the meantime.


Cheers Erfinder .... keep on keepin on.

tinman

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Re: Bullcrap
« Reply #366 on: March 08, 2018, 11:59:48 PM »
 author=Magluvin link=topic=16203.msg517982#msg517982 date=1520519125]

Quote
My power supply is different to a battery how?
Was Mags using a power supply or battery?"

lol.  Maybe someone that did watch my vids can inform you as to everything about my tests. Clearly you did not watch them if you cannot remember what sort of supply I used.

Guess you missed the boat on that one to mag's.
I was asking syncro,as he said i needed to use a battery.
I watched your videos-both of them.

Quote
Maybe you can give the nice folks here a clear explanation as to why you think your single wire coil did better than the bifi coil. Id love to hear that explanation, it might be helpful to us little folk ;)

I can do that,and i can show it.
Will write up the explanation tonight,and we'll see if it sinks in.

Quote
"So,Mags was using how many volts?--i was using 7.2"

How many volts did I use Brad? .5v?  3v?  10v?  20v?  Maybe someone that actually watched my vids will go back and watch them again and keep you updated on all the details of what I had shown..
 

Once again,i was asking syncro,as he says that 300 volt pulses are not high enough,so i needed a higher drive voltage-->from a battery
As i said ,i watched your video's.

Quote
Mags didnt show measurements of his coils so they must not be the same.

You will show us all where i said that?

Quote
Ya know something, You kept asking, how many times, "what is the difference between a bifi coil and a normal coil with a cap across it?"  I show what that difference is

And im still asking.
When you find out what your actually looking at,as i have,then you might understand as to why i am asking you what the difference is.
You are making the mistake in thinking that your bifi coil is absorbing more of the inductive kickback because you see a higher EMF value across the sniffer coil.

Quote
and you post a vid claiming Mags this and Mags that. Mags switching is bad so his vid shows nothing worth looking at.

And when you get a clean switching setup,with an ongoing pulse train,then maybe you can look as close as i did.

Quote
So now you do this vid and 'claim' the the single wire coil takes on inductive kickback pulses better than a bifilar coil..

And it does.

Quote
Now you can explain why it is that you have gotten that result?

I can-and more.
I can tell you why a single wound coil will be more efficient as well.

Quote
Because my rebuttal vid is coming, and I 'did' watch your vid, and I 'do' remember what went on in your vid.  Maybe you should show an exact diagram of your circuit as I did. Just so others can try to replicate your results

Sure,i can post a circuit--it's very simple.
Looking forward to your vid.

tinman

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #367 on: March 09, 2018, 12:07:51 AM »

 


you're better than this...

Quote
The ideas you are trying to communicate in this video are lost through your say nothing approach,

ATM,i am trying not to communicate to much of my idea,and so my say nothing approach is about as much as i want to say.

Quote
scope displaying a blast from the past multiple pulse per pass scope shot, and constant referencing to voltage as it relates to events leading up to the production of the what you call oscillations....  this latter reference can lead one to speculate that your switch is not a BJT.....

It could,but who will give it a second thought ?.  ;D

tinman

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #368 on: March 09, 2018, 12:13:19 AM »
Mags
You may want to read this.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/99060/capacitors-why-is-the-energy-not-stored-in-a-magnetic-field

Quote:  while charging a capacitor there will be a magnetic field present due to the change in the electric field. And of course BB contains energy as pointed out. However: As the capacitor charges, the magnetic field does not remain static. This results in electromagnetic waves which radiate energy away. The energy put into the magnetic field during charging is lost in the sense that it cannot be feed back to the circuit by the capacitor.

In the limit of a fully charged capacitor, there is no displacement current maintaining a magnetic field and all the energy is stored in the electric field.


Magluvin

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Re: Bullcrap
« Reply #369 on: March 09, 2018, 02:16:25 AM »
author=Magluvin link=topic=16203.msg517982#msg517982 date=1520519125]

Guess you missed the boat on that one to mag's.
I was asking syncro,as he said i needed to use a battery.
I watched your videos-both of them.

I can do that,and i can show it.
Will write up the explanation tonight,and we'll see if it sinks in.
 

Once again,i was asking syncro,as he says that 300 volt pulses are not high enough,so i needed a higher drive voltage-->from a battery
As i said ,i watched your video's.

You will show us all where i said that?

And im still asking.
When you find out what your actually looking at,as i have,then you might understand as to why i am asking you what the difference is.
You are making the mistake in thinking that your bifi coil is absorbing more of the inductive kickback because you see a higher EMF value across the sniffer coil.

And when you get a clean switching setup,with an ongoing pulse train,then maybe you can look as close as i did.

And it does.

I can-and more.
I can tell you why a single wound coil will be more efficient as well.

Sure,i can post a circuit--it's very simple.
Looking forward to your vid.


"Guess you missed the boat on that one to mag's.
I was asking syncro,as he said i needed to use a battery.
I watched your videos-both of them."

Ok



"I can do that,and i can show it.
Will write up the explanation tonight,and we'll see if it sinks in."

Ok


"Once again,i was asking syncro,as he says that 300 volt pulses are not high enough,so i needed a higher drive voltage-->from a battery
As i said ,i watched your video's."

Ok


"You will show us all where i said that?"

It felt that you implied it in the vid as you were referring to everything else you felt was going wrong in my vid.



"And im still asking.
When you find out what your actually looking at,as i have,then you might understand as to why i am asking you what the difference is.
You are making the mistake in thinking that your bifi coil is absorbing more of the inductive kickback because you see a higher EMF value across the sniffer coil."

We will see.



"And when you get a clean switching setup,with an ongoing pulse train,then maybe you can look as close as i did."

it only seems to be you that insists I didnt have any consistent switching happening.   We will see.



"And it does."

We will see



"I can-and more.
I can tell you why a single wound coil will be more efficient as well."

We will see



"Sure,i can post a circuit--it's very simple.
Looking forward to your vid."

Ok


Mags



Magluvin

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #370 on: March 09, 2018, 02:28:55 AM »
ATM,i am trying not to communicate to much of my idea,and so my say nothing approach is about as much as i want to say.



Why is that?  Why show it at all?  I mean you come down on Erfinder for not completely divulging what he talks about, and he has shown vids of some of his stuff. So maybe that all can end now, being you are using the same approach to your project.

Mags


Magluvin

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #371 on: March 09, 2018, 03:10:15 AM »
Mags
You may want to read this.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/99060/capacitors-why-is-the-energy-not-stored-in-a-magnetic-field

Quote:  while charging a capacitor there will be a magnetic field present due to the change in the electric field. And of course BB contains energy as pointed out. However: As the capacitor charges, the magnetic field does not remain static. This results in electromagnetic waves which radiate energy away. The energy put into the magnetic field during charging is lost in the sense that it cannot be feed back to the circuit by the capacitor.

In the limit of a fully charged capacitor, there is no displacement current maintaining a magnetic field and all the energy is stored in the electric field.

Well lets say we have a 10uf cap.  At 0v, we have a balance between the 2 plates, no charge.  Now we charge the cap to 10v.  If we could count the electrons taken from the pos plate and count the electrons given to the neg plate, would you agree that every time we discharge the cap and recharge it to 10v, that the electron counts would be the same? If not, then why?

If so, then the reason that you are presenting for the possible loss you show in your bifi coil can also be directly related to the 50% loss in energy when we do a cap to cap experiment?  What you are presenting as the loss in your bifi coil in that article has also been said here(by Poynt himself) to be the loss in the cap to cap, once I had proven that resistance and heat are not the loss in the cap to cap experiment as previously claimed here before I had presented my proof.  But that still does not account for the electron count values for the voltages measured in the caps. Those numbers will be the same anyway you look at it. Even ideal caps the count will be relative to the voltage which firstly proves the resistance as a loss a falsehood.

So in the cap to cap experiment, would you agree that there is the possibility of this loss you claim in your bifi as the issue?  If so, when we do the cap to cap deal, and we lose 50% of the energy total in the process, does that same loss you are presenting have anything to do with the loss in the cap to cap deal? If no, then why is it that your bifi has this particular loss you claim and the cap to cap does not? If you say yes, please explain why then once we do the cap to cap deal our electron count will still be relative to the voltage in each cap.  If we add a 100 ohm resistance between the 2 caps and let them level out to 5v each, or if we just connect them directly, would there be this added loss you claim to have with the bifi capacitance, one way with the 100 ohm or a 1meg ohm resistor or if we direct connect the 2 caps?

I mean if 'you disagree' that the 'supposed' cap to cap magnetic field losses when the 2 caps are direct connected, is the same as the explanation for your bifi loss, then I am at a loss.

From what I got from that page you had shown is  they(by the way, are they talking about Poynt at our?) are saying a magnetic field is created during the charging of the cap radiates some energy away from the cap as magnetic radiation.  Is this what you are claiming as the loss you have in your bifi coil?

Mags
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 05:25:22 AM by Magluvin »

Magluvin

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #372 on: March 09, 2018, 04:36:29 AM »
So brads test coils see a loaded secondary pickup coil. This will reduce the inductance of the test coil, but it will have an affect. How much of an affect? I dunno. Would have to see what the inductance increase is with the core and then what the inductance of the test coil is when the pickup coil is loaded. So why not rectify the pickup coil so the test coils could peak out as I have shown, and then the pickup coil only reacts to the collapsing field of the test coil. Now the loaded pickup wont affect the initial upswing of the test coils.

Will do that after I try to replicate Brads results, as it will be only the addition of a diode in series with the loaded pickup coil.

Mags

tinman

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #373 on: March 09, 2018, 05:50:37 AM »
Hey Mags

Im at work ATM,and just had a quick read of your post's.

I will give detailed explanations tonight,when im on my computor.

Remember-there is a big difference between stored energy,and stored charge-such as in caps.
You loose no charge in a cap to cap transfer,but you loose energy,due to displacement currents. The same applies to a coil,be it single or bifi. As the bifi coil has more winding capacitance,then you loose more of the energy that is put into the coil.

I have mannaged to replicate your test results with my two coils,by removing the load on the sniffer coil-what does that tell you.


Brad

synchro1

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Re: Inductive Kickback
« Reply #374 on: March 09, 2018, 10:40:54 AM »
Check this one out:

https://youtu.be/3ykm-blvC-U

I'm getting better (Attraction-Neutralization) off the kickback from my "500 Newton Electro-Magnet Coil" then with the series bifilar coil. This setup generates a huge amount of current in the "Electro Magnet Coil" from the attraction stroke as I've demonstrated in my videos. All it would take is one commutator Reed switch for output off the "Electro-Magnet Coil".
I think I can place the output Reed switch on the other side of the Neo magnet spinner.

I'll upload another video of this soon. I believe this combination will prove to be way Overunity.