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Author Topic: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas  (Read 12665 times)

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2016, 07:00:52 AM »
My question is; what about four or more magnets in a linear mechanic resonance? But that for next time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQpNqSUz8Ws

maybe 3 magnets, 3 coils.
each 90-degrees from each other.
maybe stronger magnets, that can't touch each other.

[....mumble....mumble... flux capacitor.... t...me..spc....continuum....]

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2016, 07:00:52 AM »

Offline Berto3

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2016, 03:27:50 PM »
My next experiment is to explore how this electromagnetic resonator can be compared with an antenna.
Certain behavior let me think that it is comparable with what happans in a 1/2 or/1/4 lambda antenna.
I discovered that the Q-factor when magnets are in resonance is very high. I have to add a fine tuning.
May be it is comparable with standing acoustic waves. This presumptions may be wrong.
Other people think it has to do with the golden section. The position of the pulsed solenoid is very important.
Can this resonator, in resonance, throw 'extra' energy in the pick-up coils? We will see the next time.
 


Offline Berto3

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2016, 01:31:54 AM »
There have been many changes made to the EM Resonator. Experiment shows that the vertical
position of the resonator is the best. That's to say; less friction, stable resonance,
use of the gravity and the least energy usage. The 2 magnets are bouncing inside the tube with
the help of gravity and the bump magnets. This 2 magnets at both sides of the tube I placed in
the hackneyed pen cap for a quick change of the magnets within the tube.
The resonator has now three bifilar wound coils:
- An activator solenoid with a 0.2 mm AWG32 and a 0.16 AWG34, 50 and 130ohm.
- Two pick-up coils with 0.12mm AWG36, 2x 320ohm per coil.
First I had to make the coil cores and wind the bifilar windings. My simple coil winder is a godsend.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns7jTKHjEZY
I did connect the bifilar windings in series, to get the maximum energy transfer.
After the attachment at the tube and the connection with the circuits, the adjustment could start.
What is the best arrangement of the magnets within the tube for the best energy transfer?
What frequency and pulswidth gives a strong resonance? How to decrease the input current?
How to increase the output voltage of the pickup coils? This are the results of the first test:
Input voltage: 6V
Input current: ~22mA (for the whole circuit!)
Output voltage, no load: AC 6V peak per coil
Output current, shortcut: 2 mA per coil
These results are not bad when you take in account the low frequency of the resonator (4Hz).
More experiments are coming to increase the output. The bifilar windings are giving me more
options to investigate than a single winded coil.


Offline guest1289

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2016, 02:56:18 AM »
I did not know about this thread,   when I created  http://overunity.com/16329/oscillation-in-passive-magnetic-levitation-devices-perpetual-motionfree-energ/msg470838/#msg470838  ,   yesterday ,  my apologies. 

I will  'paste'  the only post in that thread :
---------
Question :
   Does the oscillation present in some( but not all )  'Passive(Non-Powered)-All-Permanent-Magnet-Magnetic-Full-Levitation-Devices'  = Perpetual-motion/Free-energy  ?

   ( The 'Mendocino Motor' levitating bearing,  is not Full-Levitation,  but you can see it is very unstable )

    (  I have seen,  and I have also designed, 'Passive(Non-Powered)-Permanent-Magnet-Magnetic-Full-Levitation-Devices' ,  I think that my designs have minimized any instability as far as possible )

     - I would of thought that if there were 0% earth-vibrations and obviously nothing else to cause other peoples bearings/levitators to be unstable,  then they would be perfectly-still,  but if they would not be perfectly-still,  then that could be   Perpetual-motion/Free-energy .

     -  If the instability/movement is Perpetual-motion/Free-energy,  you could design something to totally maximize that movement in one or more axis,  and then harness that Perpetual-motion/Free-energy,  to maybe power a small-LED-torch or other things .
--------

       My question is more theoretical,  than your actual device, but I think your research is trying to answer my question.

       (  In any real device you will always lose energy through heat or any other type of radiation,  but if the Perpetual-motion/Free-energy being harnessed by your device does exist,  then it will continue to be fed into your device  )

        (  I think Thomas-Bearden's site describes how you can fully shield wiring and components to eliminate all energy loss,  but I think you would also have to put your device into a full-vacuum )

        Your work is far too advanced for me,  I always avoid complicated and advanced things,  I cannot think that much.
     
        Your research( and device ) is very impressive .


Offline Berto3

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2016, 01:32:25 AM »
This is the video what comes with my previous post here in this thread. It is the last version of the electomagnetic resonator.
Now I attached the pickup coils and did some experiments to find out about; less friction, stable resonance, use of the gravity
 and the least energy consumption. The video 'Linear Electromagnetic Resonator 5' shows it all...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ9JDuUPEKE


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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2016, 01:32:25 AM »
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Offline guest1289

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2016, 10:33:50 PM »
Your work is too advanced for me to fully understand,  especially the examination of current-properties,  and resonance/oscillation/frequency-properties .

(  Since that device has electrical input,  and you are examining the properties of the input and output currents,  I cannot fully understand the results,  since I have no experience in that area,  I can understand some of it   )

Although I think this thread may be a little bit different to a 'question' I have been wondering,   because I think you are examining  resonance/oscillation/frequency(  the name of the thread  ),  and yet whenever I look at it,  it seems the same as my question .

[  For my 'question',  there should be  no  electrical-input( or earth-vibrations ) .   
 In the following post(  http://overunity.com/16295/all-permanent-magnet-complete-levitation/msg469597/#msg469597 ) I posted some Very-Very-Simple levitation designs,  and am informed that although they could function,  they would always be unstable( or vibrate ) due to  'Earnshaw's Theorem',   so,  it occured to me that if  the instability( vibration ) would  'NOT'  be due to the vibration-from-the-earth( it always vibrates on a small scale ) then the instability( vibration ) could be due to the interaction of the magnets,   and if that is correct,  it could be Perpetual-Motion/Free-Energy,  and a  special-device could be designed to maximize the instability ( vibration ) along just one axis,  in order to harness the Perpetual-Motion/Free-Energy .   Very-Similar to your device and work .
       My  question  would be impossible to answer,  because there is no way to eliminate the vibration-from-the-earth  in order to answer it  ]

  [  Now it has made me wonder what happens when two same-magnetic-poles( N facing N ) face each other,  would the result be like two air-fans or water-hoses facing each other,  so the air/water splashes out to the sides in all kinds of random directions,  could that be harnessed as  Perpetual-Motion/Free-Energy,  could that be viewed with one of those  magnetic-field-viewers.  I assume the theorized magnetic-vortex cannot be viewed with  magnetic-field-viewers   ]

  It would be interesting how much further you could improve your results,  and it's interesting that   gravity  is a key factor in the functioning of your device (  what would a space-version look like , or could you just place your device  horizontally ),  advanced and complex

Offline Berto3

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2016, 03:27:19 PM »
Thanks guest1289 for your reply. You are asking something I have to find out in the first place. At this moment I am investigating the behavior of 'free piston' magnets; how they react at each other and the bump magnets. Slight changes in the frequency and pulswidth in the induction coil can result in a kind of constructive interference in the movement of the magnets. I try to follow the principles of soundwaves in a hollow tube or the behavior of radiowaves at an antenna in order to achieve resonance. The limitation of the resonator is the mass of the magnets; resonance occurs below 10 hz. With smaller permanent magnets i can reach higher frequenties but a very small swing. 
Till now I have only done experiments to find out the best setup for the mechanical resonance of the linear magnetic resonator. The question is coming now. What are the conditions to realise self oscillation of the resonator by using magneto mechanical means? The whole system has a loss. The way I go to overcome this is the use of a high frequence (shortcut) 'switchpump' in the pickup coils. For this reason I made bifilar windings to enhance the output of the coils. This is the electric resonance pathway of the resonator.
Later I come back at this and more 'questions' about this device because I have to leave now.     

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2016, 03:27:19 PM »
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Offline Berto3

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2016, 12:46:11 AM »
Back again. Guest 1289, you are wondering what happens to the flux field at the position where 2 magnets, with the north- or south poles facing, rebound. What happens to the flux field when this happens quick and strong, just before the magnets touch each other. You took the example of two fans or two water hoses opposite to each other. Air and water are free flowing, and there is gravity and pressure in play. The magnetic field is not only concentrated around the magnet but also bound to it. But is that true? I don't know. With my simple magnetic field viewer I can only see the static situation. I can imagine that things happen according to an antenna where the electromagnetic field is thrown away from the antenna into space. What I have to find out is; if and how my pickup coils act (or react) to the bouncing of two of the same poles. Does this energetic flux field flow into my coils?
All the magnets in the resonator are set in repel mode. In resonance they pass the pickup coil with maximal swing and so producing the maximal flux and output. What happens to the energy the bouncing is setting free? I have to do more investigation. Sometimes you can hear the magnets touching each other in the resonator, what power is there in play? Ever tried to push two neodymium magnets in repel together? Maybe there is another way to convert this 'extra work' to usable 'free' energy.
Berto   

Offline guest1289

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2016, 05:21:17 PM »
It would be interesting to see how long your device could run on a battery,   like the  "Oxford Electric Bell" (  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Electric_Bell,   it's oscillation frequency is 2 hertz ) which has been running since 1840,  and there is also another device .

I wonder if electricity is being wasted in your device,  in order to work against gravity,  if it was true,  could it function horizontally,  and it could just glide/levitate across a magnetic-surface,  see the image,  posted below .

Yes, your'e right of course, the magnetic-field is bound to the magnet,  and behaves like a rubber-balloon-full-of-air around the magnet,  so it can squashed and bent by other magnets .

You tried to see if there is any dynamic-movement in the fields between two same-magnetic-poles facing each other,  with your field-viewer,  and saw that the fields remain still
(  I wonder if there might be an exact middle-plane/area between two same-magnetic-poles,  facing each other, where there may be some dynamic-movement,  that might be view-able with  iron-filings( contained in a flat hollow transparent container ) between the two magnets,  or even in some type of ferrofluid  setup  )

(  Imagine two plastic-hollow-pipes,  the two pipes are placed right next to each other,   one magnet is propelled inside pipe-1 to the right-direction,  and the other magnet is propelled inside pipe-2 to the left-direction,  ( it is two same-magnetic-poles( magnets ) facing each other, N facing N, or S facing S ),   so,   as they pass each other in the middle-point of the pipes,  could that strong reaction cause the 2 magnets to  pulse-each-other,  normally,  you can only pulse a permanent-magnet using electricity ,  but,  magnets are also metal,   and one magnet,  could possible induce a strong enough brief current in another magnet to pulse it  ,  and when you electrically-pulse a magnet,  you multiply the strength of it's magnetic-field by many-many times .   )

(  So, if one normal-permanent-magnet could induce a pulse in another normal-magnet,  the pulsed magnet should emit a brief radio signal,  detectable with an antena ( or with your coils ). 
In the last few years, I learnt that radio-signals are infact composed of photons,  and of course we cannot see radio-signals because they are at the wrong frequency for us to see them.  So,  obviously,  electro-magnets,  work by using photons,   but the thing I cannot understand is,  what about normal-permanent-magnets,  there is no reason for them to emit photons,  so how do their magnetic-fields work,  and yet the fields of  electro-magnets  and  normal-permanent-magnets  seem so similar,  or the same  )

I am told that the very-simple magnetic-levitation 'design'  in the diagram below,  could work,  but it would not be stable-levitation, it would be continuously-vibrating,  because  'Earnshaw's Theorem' proved in his mathematics that it would be continuously-vibrating ( even if,  the vibration may be very hard for a person to see ),  so,  if Earnshaw proved that the vibration would continue, until the magnets wear out,  then surely  that would be a  magnet-motor,  which is 'Proven' by 'Samuel Earnshaw' .

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2016, 06:51:20 PM »
(  So, if one normal-permanent-magnet could induce a pulse in another normal-magnet,  the pulsed magnet should emit a brief radio signal,  detectable with an antena ( or with your coils ). 
In the last few years, I learnt that radio-signals are infact composed of photons,  and of course we cannot see radio-signals because they are at the wrong frequency for us to see them.  So,  obviously,  electro-magnets,  work by using photons,   but the thing I cannot understand is,  what about normal-permanent-magnets,  there is no reason for them to emit photons,  so how do their magnetic-fields work,  and yet the fields of  electro-magnets  and  normal-permanent-magnets  seem so similar,  or the same  )
Not photons, in the way we think of light, but more similar to an energy-packet analysis of a photon.
It is still energy radiation, by classical definition, but does not contain many of the aspects we attribute to visible light.

the space around a moving magnet experiences a flux, or change in magnetic intensity, with respect to the ambient field.
without an inductor present(in a different inertial frame of reference) to experience this flux, theres no real "change" in energy.
The exception to this, would be the interaction with another field.
For instance, here on earth, a moving magnet is opposed by or contributed to by, the Earth's ambient field.


Quote
I am told that the very-simple magnetic-levitation 'design'  in the diagram below,  could work,  but it would not be stable-levitation, it would be continuously-vibrating,  because  'Earnshaw's Theorem' proved in his mathematics that it would be continuously-vibrating ( even if,  the vibration may be very hard for a person to see ),  so,  if Earnshaw proved that the vibration would continue, until the magnets wear out,  then surely  that would be a  magnet-motor,  which is 'Proven' by 'Samuel Earnshaw' .

I'm not sure a motor analogy applies here. At least, not in the sense of a usable force.
The force causing the motion in a quasi-stable levitation event, is very small.
close to the moment of inertia of the levitating object.
This presents no usable excess force to be obtained from said motion.
To interfere with it, would change the force and vector of the vibration.

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2016, 06:51:20 PM »
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Offline guest1289

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2016, 08:46:00 PM »
I'm not sure a motor analogy applies here. At least, not in the sense of a usable force.
The force causing the motion in a quasi-stable levitation event, is very small.
close to the moment of inertia of the levitating object.
This presents no usable excess force to be obtained from said motion.

Yes, but I was thinking that if you designed a device to magnify/multiply the vibration( probably along only 1 axis),  and it achieved that, only through it's non-powered geometric design,  then it could be usable. 
  A 1metre straight stick, with an axle running through the stick( the axle placed at 10cm from one end of the stick ) could magnify/multiply small movements,   now,  replace that axle with some type of passive-magnetic-bearing or similar contactless-passive-magnetic-device.

sm0ky2
Quote
To interfere with it, would change the force and vector of the vibration.
That gave me a strange idea,  that if you have an object passively-levitating,  but levitating by being heavily compressed in between two seperate magnetic forces,  then it's vibration as a result of being contactlessly compressed in between the two seperate magnetic forces,  might make it strong enough to make it usable,  even if the tiny-distances that it vibrates,  are the same as the tiny-distances that the same object would  vibrate  if it would merely be  passively-levitating  above a single magnetic-field .   
(  The compression,  could make the vibration stronger,  but does a stronger vibration also mean that the tiny-distances it vibrates,  would increase ,  I don't know  )

I had been thinking that another design,  for a device to harness the tiny-vibrations,  might look very similar to the same  device  built and demonstrated functioning in this actual thread,   since it works just along one axis ,  but it's too difficult for me to figure out how it would be adapted/modified .

Either way, my idea,  is not easy

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2016, 09:04:46 PM »

That gave me a strange idea,  that if you have an object passively-levitating,  but levitating by being heavily compressed in between two seperate magnetic forces,  then it's vibration as a result of being contactlessly compressed in between the two seperate magnetic forces,  might make it strong enough to make it usable,  even if the tiny-distances that it vibrates,  are the same as the tiny-distances that the same object would  vibrate  if it would merely be  passively-levitating  above a single magnetic-field .   
(  The compression,  could make the vibration stronger,  but does a stronger vibration also mean that the tiny-distances it vibrates,  would increase ,  I don't know  )


you are getting close to the answer.
The force increases as the distance Decreases.
so, the more you confine, or restrict this motion with the opposing field(s),
the shorter the distance becomes, it increases in intensity, and in most cases, frequency....

you have to remember, this is all a function of the cumulative effects of tiny atomic magnetic moments.
in its' simplest form, where the "magnets" consisted of triatoms of iron atoms, that were magnetized.
such distances and frequencies could theoretically approach the resonant frequency of iron itself.
This is in the Ghz range, hundreds of times greater than the microwave frequency we cook our food with.
almost approaching the range of visible light.
which gives iron its dark color.
an atomic metal with a higher resonant frequency, such as copper, has a more luminescent appearance.

everything has a frequency at which it naturally resonates, related to the energies, distances involved, boundary points, etc.
Tesla knew at least two ways to excite an oscillator to cause a great build-up in potentials.
One based on the length of the steel beam
The other based on the resonance of the iron that composed the steel.
Both were demonstrated.

Hitler discovered that when you relate frequency and resonance to all things, everything is united along a common measurement.
Much of our science that came post WWII, is based on some of these principals.
Even the atomic bomb, or a nuclear power plant.


Offline Berto3

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2016, 03:14:31 AM »
In part 6 of the EM Resonator videoblog I show you a strange behavior by the use of a repulsion magnet.
Suddenly, at a higher frequency, exact 20 Hz, the pickup coil was producing a perfect triangle waveform.
Beside that  the supply voltage was sinking, by resonance, from 22 mA to 14 mA by some inexplicable reason.
More explorations have to be done, but this phenomenon is puzzling me. More to come.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCP3gDmouKY




Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2016, 06:26:11 AM »
In part 6 of the EM Resonator videoblog I show you a strange behavior by the use of a repulsion magnet.
Suddenly, at a higher frequency, exact 20 Hz, the pickup coil was producing a perfect triangle waveform.
Beside that  the supply voltage was sinking, by resonance, from 22 mA to 14 mA by some inexplicable reason.
More explorations have to be done, but this phenomenon is puzzling me. More to come.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCP3gDmouKY

excellent display of a resonant node!!
You should try to find a higher node, maybe around 200Hz?
may have to scale up or down a touch to find it , but now you see and know what to look for.

I'm a little confused when you say the Voltage sank by 8 milliAmperes?
anyways, nice video.


Offline Berto3

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2016, 01:30:51 PM »
I'm a little confused when you say the Voltage sank by 8 milliAmperes?
I don't know what makes the current draw happen. That is what I have to figure out today.
The 'normal' motor core magnet gives feedback to the motor coil, that I noted already.
It generates current back in the pulse coil. The behavior of the 'repel magnet' in the
pickup coil is new to me.

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Re: Magnetic mechanical Resonance ideas
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2016, 01:30:51 PM »

 

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