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Author Topic: Increased capacitor current effect  (Read 4154 times)

Offline ayeaye

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Increased capacitor current effect
« on: October 02, 2015, 10:33:52 PM »
Will in the circuit below ever be any voltage on the capacitor C2? There shouldn't be by all means, and the simulator also shows that there isn't. But if there is some anomaly in the capacitors, so that the current rises somewhat more than that necessary for charging, when the voltage on the capacitor rapidly increases, then some current should go to the capacitor C2, and its voltage should increase. It is just about finding out whether there is any, maybe unknown anomaly. Souldn't be by anything we know, but experimenting is to find out. Has anyone tried this?

There should be a small, positive voltage on C2, btw, because the diode's capacitance is in series with C2, but this capacitance is very smal,l and thus the voltage should be very small. Simulator didn't show that voltage at all. But i mean, will there be any negative voltage.

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Increased capacitor current effect
« on: October 02, 2015, 10:33:52 PM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Increased capacitor current effect
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2015, 01:23:30 AM »
Can you clarify the pulse source parameters? I am reading it as a pulse, from 0V to 5V, a delay of 0, with rise and fall times of 10 nanoseconds, a pulse width of 100 microseconds and a period of 1 millisecond. Is that correct?


Offline ayeaye

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Re: Increased capacitor current effect
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2015, 02:51:05 AM »
Yes, that's correct. dc 0 is there too, i don't know why is that, but it doesn't work without it. The simulator needs some linear path to everything, or something.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Increased capacitor current effect
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2015, 03:32:35 AM »
Well, I can't find any 1n4148 or 1n914 diodes in my box, so I used a 1n5817 Schottky diode instead.

Here's what I get:

The first scopeshot is with the Pulse Generator (DP-101) disconnected from the circuit to show the pulses and the channel baselines. Second shot is with pulse generator connections as the diagram indicates. The DP-101 produces a somewhat faster risetime than specified, around 6-8 nanoseconds.

(In the first shot I mistakenly had the Scopetrace Label as CAP1 but the probe is actually connected properly, to CAP2 as the photo shows.)


Offline ayeaye

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Re: Increased capacitor current effect
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2015, 05:24:48 AM »
Thanks a lot, Tinsel.

Considering how your probe is connected, the voltage on C2 goes negative? If you have not inverted the channel.

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Re: Increased capacitor current effect
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2015, 05:24:48 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Increased capacitor current effect
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2015, 07:53:43 AM »
No, no channels are inverted.

But I did discover that the "dips" in the Yellow trace (Cap2) are apparently reflections due to a faulty cable connector. I changed to a different patch cable and they went away. Now the Cap2 trace is a steady 88-92 mV all the way across. See the first scopeshot below.

The second scopeshot is with the Diode shorted. Note that I had to change the vertical scale of the Cap2 trace to keep it on-screen.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Increased capacitor current effect
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2015, 08:22:21 AM »
When I remove the C1 capacitor entirely, the Cap2 trace drops to baseline. So I changed to a different C1 capacitor (still 1uF) and the Cap2 trace goes back up to 88-92  mV. 

I changed the Diode from 1n5817 (Vf =0.185V) to a 1n60 germanium diode (Vf =0.245 V) and the Cap2 trace went up by about 10 mV to 100 mV.

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Re: Increased capacitor current effect
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2015, 08:22:21 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Increased capacitor current effect
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2015, 08:46:53 AM »
I changed from the DP-101 pulse generator (risetime 13 ns at this configuration) to the F43 FG, at the same frequency and pulse width and voltage settings as near as I could manage, and the Cap2 trace went down to 68-72 mV. The F43 has a much slower rise and fall time of around 40-50 ns. 

First shot below is with the DP-101, second shot with the F43.

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Increased capacitor current effect
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2015, 03:05:55 PM »
DS1Z_QuickPrint8.png oscillates. What made me to first think about that, was an oscilloscope image of some capacitors in series, charging with high frequency pulse. The voltage taken from somewhere in the middle of them, oscillated. This made me to think, maybe the current goes first greater than it should, then compensates. The only way i can figure capacitors can oscillate without inductor.

Today they used to question, how can you doubt in already well-established things in science. Some go even so for that they doubt in the theory of relativity, fortunately you don't yet. This is a very interesting thinking, a very weird phenomenon. In ancient Greece there were theories as well, but people were encouraged to doubt in them.

 

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