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# New Book

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### Author Topic: Gravity powered water generator  (Read 18115 times)

#### antijon

• Full Member
• Posts: 210
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #60 on: August 01, 2017, 08:34:24 PM »
Hey guys, I've got a question if someone can help me out.

Reading a part of the argument here, I was wondering about the lifting energy of something compared to the impact energy of it falling. A simple way to find the impact energy is height x weight.

So a gallon of water at roughly 8 lbs. dropped from 10 ft. should have an impact of 80 lbs.

Going from that I found a formula that stated it takes 10J to lift 1 kg 1 m.

So a fat guy at 100 kg climbing a 3 meter ladder in 5 seconds used 600w of energy.
10j x 100kg x 3m / 5 s = 600w (notice that total energy is 3000 joules).
I then found a splat calculator here https://www.angio.net/personal/climb/speed.html that shows the fat guy falling from 3 meters will have an impact of 2940 joules. Obviously lower than the energy needed to climb the ladder, but whatever. My problem is converting that energy into watts. Certainly, the total impact time is less than one second. So if impact time is .5 secs total watts at impact would be 6kw. Does that sound right?
Physically, I know if I put rubber, or a spring, on the ground under the fat guy, I'm increasing the impact time and lowering the impact energy. So do I really get more watts out than in?

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #60 on: August 01, 2017, 08:34:24 PM »

#### bw100007

• Newbie
• Posts: 31
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #61 on: August 01, 2017, 09:40:02 PM »
This is really crude but shows the left wrap the transfer wrap and the right wrap. Sorry about the file size i am a newbie.  Any way i can correct this?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 01:45:28 AM by bw100007 »

#### Brutus

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 52
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2017, 10:51:53 PM »
webby1;
in a closed system the air pressure change will be the same change value as the change in the water levels.

Check out scan 0023.pdf  and let me know if you think the way I drew it will work.   This is my question.  Will the water once released from the top of tank B through the outlet and then falling into tank A which is connected with the same water source, ( It is all one tank actually but with a riser on the right side), Go back into tank B from the air pulling it as it tries to maintain its air pressure.

My point being,  If the water is caused to pull itself back into tank B through air pressure stabilization within tank B, then I can alleviate the need to pump water against gravity through mechanical/electrical means to bring it back to the water pump again.

Or maybe some other medium besides air which, until now, I had not considered might be used to keep a pressure point applied to do the same thing?   Like an oil?  No Gap, so the drawing power would be constant with no variance.  Or, better yet, no water or air gap at all just filled to the top with water.

#### webby1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3101
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2017, 12:17:02 AM »
This is really crude but shows the left wrap the transfer wrap and the right wrap. Sorry about the file size i am a newbie.  Any way i can correct this?

You need to load the pic in a picture program like Paint,, if you have Paint then open the picture in Paint and click on resize,, I use 1024X768.

After you do that then you need to edit your post and remove the first pic and then choose the new one to replace it,, you only have a certain amount of time to edit your post,,

#### webby1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3101
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #64 on: August 02, 2017, 12:20:49 AM »
Edit your post and remove the attachment,,

Here is the resized version.

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #64 on: August 02, 2017, 12:20:49 AM »

#### webby1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3101
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #65 on: August 02, 2017, 12:35:04 AM »
Quote
webby1;
in a closed system the air pressure change will be the same change value as the change in the water levels.
Check out scan 0023.pdf  and let me know if you think the way I drew it will work.   This is my question.  Will the water once released from the top of tank B through the outlet and then falling into tank A which is connected with the same water source, ( It is all one tank actually but with a riser on the right side), Go back into tank B from the air pulling it as it tries to maintain its air pressure.

My point being,  If the water is caused to pull itself back into tank B through air pressure stabilization within tank B, then I can alleviate the need to pump water against gravity through mechanical/electrical means to bring it back to the water pump again.

Or maybe some other medium besides air which, until now, I had not considered might be used to keep a pressure point applied to do the same thing?   Like an oil?  No Gap, so the drawing power would be constant with no variance.  Or, better yet, no water or air gap at all just filled to the top with water.

The water will fall down the inside of Tank B and suck in air through the discharge pipe and then the water will flow out and over the top of the lower tank\reservoir.

If you have a plastic cup,, a throw away,, take that cup a sink and a needle,, fill the sink with water, then submerge the cup with the open end up,, when under water all the way  rotate the cup under water so the open end is down,, lift cup up so that the last inch of the cup is still under the water surface,, the cup is still filled with water at this point,, now take the needle and poke a hole in the side of the cup down far enough so that you are poking the hole into the water inside the cup.

Your hand will tell you that the cup is loosing water because the cup is getting lighter.

more play would be to insert a rubber tube into the side of the cup and seal it there,, repeat the first test and try different things with the rubber tube,, a clear plastic cup is easy to see what the water is doing inside the cup,,

#### webby1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3101
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2017, 12:44:19 AM »
This is really crude but shows the left wrap the transfer wrap and the right wrap. Sorry about the file size i am a newbie.  Any way i can correct this?

What would happen when this is primed,, when you turn say 1\2 revolution the water will move towards one side and away from the other,, then if you allowed the hole "tube" to "tilt" down to the heavy side,, what happens to the water in the system.
Well,, it falls down with the "tilt",, now when you rotate the "tube" the other way you are not only moving the water over to the other side but you are lifting the water up in height,, the other side is up higher because of the "tilt".

This can work, but to rotate the tube will require a torque to be applied and this is where the manometric pump part comes into play.

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2017, 12:44:19 AM »

#### bw100007

• Newbie
• Posts: 31
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2017, 02:11:53 AM »

This can work, but to rotate the tube will require a torque to be applied and this is where the manometric pump part comes into play.

IF you prime the left wrap almost full and when looking from the right side turn the cylinder clockwise 1 turn the fluid will move into the transfer helix.  keep rotating it clockwise an additional 1 turn and the fluid will move into the right wrap/bucket. The cylinder is rotated by a secondary source.  If it is 9 ft in dia then moving a ton of weight 6 ft from left to right with the fulcrum centered would give a ton of weight at 3 ft of leverage.  We should not have to lift it very high.

How would the manometric pump rotate the cylinder?

#### webby1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3101
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #68 on: August 02, 2017, 06:45:34 AM »
Hey guys, I've got a question if someone can help me out.

So a fat guy at 100 kg climbing a 3 meter ladder in 5 seconds used 600w of energy.
10j x 100kg x 3m / 5 s = 600w (notice that total energy is 3000 joules).
I then found a splat calculator here https://www.angio.net/personal/climb/speed.html that shows the fat guy falling from 3 meters will have an impact of 2940 joules. Obviously lower than the energy needed to climb the ladder, but whatever. My problem is converting that energy into watts. Certainly, the total impact time is less than one second. So if impact time is .5 secs total watts at impact would be 6kw. Does that sound right?
Physically, I know if I put rubber, or a spring, on the ground under the fat guy, I'm increasing the impact time and lowering the impact energy. So do I really get more watts out than in?

Watch out for instantaneous,, that can not be solved for as of right now

(9.80665×100)×3 = 2941.995

There are approximately 9.8065N per Kg.

Energy is not power and a Watt is a unit of power,, so how long are you going to take to collect and transfer the stored energy in the falling mass?

So,,
2941.995÷5 = 588.399W for 5 seconds expended climbing the ladder

2941.995÷.5 = 5883.99W for 0.5 seconds expended splatting.

5883.99÷(5÷.5) = 588.399 the 0.5 goes into the 5 10 times,, so you are using the same quantity of energy in 1\10th the time,, so the power is amplified at the *cost* of time but the energy is the same.

Less power for a longer time of usage,, you get 10 packets of 0.5 seconds within the 5 seconds,, so that is like taking the 588.399 and multiplying it by 10,, so you might look at the 5 seconds as (10*0.5) and the 10 is the number of packets of power you can use,, with a packet being 0.5 seconds

#### webby1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3101
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2017, 06:51:34 AM »

IF you prime the left wrap almost full and when looking from the right side turn the cylinder clockwise 1 turn the fluid will move into the transfer helix.  keep rotating it clockwise an additional 1 turn and the fluid will move into the right wrap/bucket. The cylinder is rotated by a secondary source.  If it is 9 ft in dia then moving a ton of weight 6 ft from left to right with the fulcrum centered would give a ton of weight at 3 ft of leverage.  We should not have to lift it very high.

How would the manometric pump rotate the cylinder?

Indeed,, but the ton of weight has fallen and not only needs to lifted back up to its starting height it must be raised even further to get back to its starting position within the wraps.

A pump is a motor working against you trying to turn it,, so the wraps themselves when tilted down, (due to the manometric pump action), will try and stop you turning the wraps and raising the water.

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2017, 06:51:34 AM »

#### webby1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3101
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #70 on: August 02, 2017, 06:53:59 AM »
If you force air and water packets through the wraps it will run like a motor,, these things work both ways,,,, it is all about the difference in pressure.

#### webby1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3101
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #71 on: August 02, 2017, 07:19:33 PM »
This is simplified but close enough.

H A R Y

Height of water
Area of pipe
Y,, the specific weight of water

The height of the water is the difference in the top of the water on the high side of the wrap and the top of the water on the low side of the wrap.

2*(mean radius of the drum-pipe)*(sine of the angle)=H
Basically the distance from center to center of the pipe straight across the center of the drum.

Area is the surface area of the pipe,, pi*R^2

Radius is the radius of the drum the wraps are on plus the radius of the pipe,, close to the mean radius of the wrap.

Y is 9788.99803 N/m^3

so the Torque to turn the drum with all measurements in meters is
H*A*R*Y for each wrap,, if all wraps are the same with the same angle of water then
H*A*R*Y*(number of wraps)= N-m of Torque

#### webby1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3101
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #72 on: August 03, 2017, 05:51:57 PM »
Here is a Libra Office Calc spreadsheet that provides for a reasonable representation of a spiral pump.
There are only 5 variables to change to meet your requirements,,
Tube ID
Tube wall thickness
Former thickness <== this one is set to 0
Start wheel diameter
End wheel diameter

I made it with mm as the unit of measure and it is setup for round tubing and to be basically optimized for the compression of the air and its reduced volume.

It provides for some build information as well.

Remove the .txt off of the file name.

#### Brutus

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 52
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #73 on: August 04, 2017, 07:47:44 PM »
webby1;  Sorry , I forgot to put in the picture a water pump and one way valve at the output site in tank B.  I was just trying to simplify the process to its basics.  I know the water would drain out if it had just a hole there.  You can see from my prior draft I had  a pump installed.  I was actually trying to ask,  could I save the energy of pumping the water from the top verses pumping from the bottom up?  I am thinking the water will naturally draw back up to the top to refill the lost amount.  ( Maintaining its vacuum,   Or pressure).  If that is true then I can save all the lost energy in bringing the water back up to the output site with a pump which is causing me to lose the edge I need to make this system work .   That would mean the water buckets would be gaining energy from the conveyor process.  Forget the air gap.  I don't think that is  necessary.   Just a totally filled sealed water tank.

Any way,  I am going to get a plastic storage container, a 5 gallon water container and install a small water pump near the top as the picture depicts and see how well it works.
I can also test  the flow rate possibly by first running a test bucket of water from another container to see how fast it fills up verses the enclosed system flow to see if there is a measurable difference.

I am wondering if an Archimedes  screw installed horizontally would be better to use in the assembly.  If submerged it might actually work easier than a centrifugal pump.  Just a thought.

#### webby1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3101
##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #74 on: August 04, 2017, 10:19:07 PM »
You only need to pump the water 1 time,,

The vacuum that can lift the water back up the tall tank is the same vacuum that you will have to overcome to pump the water out of the top of the tank,, so you will either need to "lift" the water up the height of the tall tank or suck the water into the pump to discharge it out at the top,, same amount of energy is required either way, either way you are lifting the water up the height of the tall tank.

It sounds like you might of been thinking that it takes 2 events,, when they are actually the same event so only 1.

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Gravity powered water generator
« Reply #74 on: August 04, 2017, 10:19:07 PM »