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Author Topic: Simoscopy  (Read 25967 times)

Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2015, 10:47:33 PM »
I have been running the same variation of the same sim,, several variations,, on both the laptop and the server,, the laptop is native XP the server is Windows10 running the program in compatibility mode.

These side by side runs share the same tendency,, that is to speed up and or slow down, but not in the same way.  They take a different path from each other.

I can change one so that the laptop shows a solid 40 RPM increase and the server shows nothing or a loss,, down 10 RPM,, and I can get things to go the other way.

I do not think that the output of the sim can be considered as overly valid,, maybe no sim that is not run on, and in, a purely dedicated system should be trusted.

If it were valid then BOTH systems would need to show the same results, they do not.

It is VERY interesting however,, what the sim is doing, and so I am going to go back and play with it some more :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2015, 10:47:33 PM »

Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2015, 10:52:40 PM »
Some may wonder why I don't just share the sim,, simple.

Most of the time I am usually wrong, but I will run down the path anyway just to see where it leads me.  Sometimes the path is different but not wrong,, usually it is not correct.

I know this and as such when things start to look good for me I then double my efforts to find my error, what it is I missed or am not appreciating correctly.

In this case I found a flaw in the software but if I posted the sim there might be others who would not believe the flaw I found and waste possible time and money on an error,, sure let them suffer there own fate,,

I think to do so would be irresponsible on my part.

I have shared the sim with those I know understand "me" and how I work,, and some times it is hard for them to follow all of  my twists and turns,, and they know how I am,, so what would a stranger get??? confused and misguided?? mislead?  they would take things out of context most likely.

Here is a password protected file,, if you know what I like then you can figure out the password,, user beware IMHO it is not a valid sim.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2015, 02:18:00 AM »
One of the differences between the server and the laptop is that the laptop system does not get into a constant direction of rotation from a dead stop but the server does.

So I made a tweak to the laptop,, I dropped a weight onto one of the arms to start motion,, well the weight got lifted instead and delayed the system as I have it setup right now,, and that delay has caused the system to accelerate itself up to close to 100 rpm and then back down to about 30 rpm and is cyclically going between those two values,,

The motions that both systems make when accelerating are the same,, as well as the motions when it is decelerating,,

Even tho I do not think the sim is valid,, I do think the trends and tendency’s that the motions show are reasonable.

Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2015, 05:02:30 PM »
Funny,, I guess we live in a left handed universe :)

The system will reverse itself when spun CW with a large weight,,

A dose of air resistance only slows down the final velocity but does not stop it from accelerating up to that velocity.

Any change in initial conditions changes the whole graph,, a little or a lot depends on that change,, so I double checked that I am using all of the same options between the laptop and the server.


Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2015, 06:05:04 PM »
High speed air resistance will stop both the CW and CCW systems.

Low speed air resistance will stop the CW system from being able to reverse its direction of rotation.

Low speed air resistance slows down the top rate of rotation on the CCW system but does not appear to stop the acceleration up to that reduced speed.

Starting out at a higher speed,, the CW system appears to slow down to the speed that it can accelerate up to,, using low speed air resistance.

Now to see if I can figure out a way of taking these random and chaotic interactions and motions and turn them into a controlled event.

I actually think the preferred direction of rotation is being caused by my less than accurate build,, I got some of the parts "close" but did not worry about making them nuts on.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2015, 06:05:04 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2015, 06:45:32 AM »
I have been playing with the sim still and making some changes,, I have noticed that in almost all of the little tweaks past my starting setup conditions end up with the same thing with any air resistance,, that is the wheel decays in rotation.

I think it is kind of funny that I was close enough to a runnable condition by just dumb luck :)

Even if the sim is not valid.

Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2015, 08:26:15 AM »
Here is a simple sim I am playing with,, I would share the sim itself but it seems to be fubar'd.

These two screen-shots show the setup and how things move,, the big "X" is connected to the large wheel the two "orange'ish" wheels are what I am using as counter-balance weights and the other two are the main weights,, all those are the same weight.

The smaller red and black wheels are on guide tracks so they can only slide on the "X" from the outside edge into the center where I have a little pink stop block.

The idea was that the two counter balance weights would move with the other two so that the CoG of the system as a whole would stay at about the pivot for the large wheel AND allow motion to happen,, well it sort of works that way but not as I was wanting it to do.

I get errors with this,, either right upon starting it or after a very short run,, if I run it after the error it will soon blow up,, and by that I mean it will blow all the pieces apart and send them this way  or that.

I can not find a rational reason as to why I would get the errors,, but I do, and this is the 3rd version of this setup I have made,, all do the same thing with little build variations to try and stop it.

Also,, all the connecting arms are the same length,, 10m center to center. there are the other two short arms and they are 5m and are connected to the center point of the cross arm and the pivot point for the large wheel.

Any suggestions as to how to change things to get rid of those errors would be nice :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2015, 08:26:15 AM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2015, 05:09:18 PM »
The sims I have been playing with are all based around a question I am chasing and that is due to my observations from my real world testbeds.

We all understand that work is force over distance, but my question is:

Does the Force and the motion, aka distance of travel, need to be supplied only to the same point or can I supply the force in to one point and the source of motion to another and have a system interaction that combines some or all of those two inputs into a useable output.

I have had many testbeds that show something along these lines,, but I have always felt that what I was doing and seeing with those was only scratching the surface of whatever the underlying interaction was.  I have a few sims that show this interaction in a few different ways but not really in a definitive way.

I changed the sim that the pics came from and it will error at the start and then run a full 32K frames,, I spin it up with the input torque and then kill the input,, it rotates and slows down with no external or frictional losses,, so where does the imparted momentum of the system go?

Well part of it I can understand,, the springs create a phase shift in direction of force taken to returned, relative to gravity,, if I turn gravity off the system will just spin as would be expected.

So now you are up to speed on what it is I am playing with,,

Happy Seasons to ALL.

Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2015, 10:06:52 PM »
This is just one of those what the heck things :)

If you sim this one up and then turn the correct spring on and off at the correct time,, you can get the wheel to speed up.

It is not a freebie in any sense of the word,, I am using 150N over about 10m for each on pulse,, 2 pulses per slide arm when they are at the correct positions, so 8 pulses per revolution,, so LOTS of input.

That is kind of misleading,, the springs are on by default and then when the slide is moving out I turn that spring off,, again only when the system is in the correct position,, and then I turn it back on when the slide is out to the end of the "X" slide arm.  Since the forces are keeping the lower weights and slides held up against that offset wheel I only need to use 2 springs connecting the slide wheels together,, so red to red, black to black.


Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2015, 11:52:52 PM »
This one does error,, so nothing really to talk about :)

I am energizing the pink springs for basically 1\4 revolution each,, each one is moving aproximatly 5.8m while energized with 100N of constant force,, K not Kx.

AT about 60v0 on the graph I applied -100Nm of torque to stop the rotation,, it is still speeding up :)  not as quickly as it was but still getting faster.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2015, 11:52:52 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2015, 12:52:28 AM »
Interesting,, well it still errors so nothing really.

Without gravity it will not accelerate, with the inner circle replaced with rods it does not accelerate,, with things not set correctly it will not accelerate.

With things adjusted correctly it will accelerate from a dead stop against the 100Nm counter torque.

My math is probably wrong,, but that would be

2321J used per rotation

which should be about

61.57Nm torque

Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2015, 01:29:42 AM »
Double checked myself,, it should be 369.4Nm of torque,,

My bad :)


Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2015, 03:41:40 AM »
With 370Nm of counter torque the system slowly slows down.

Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2015, 04:42:48 PM »
Been playing with this more and changing settings and stuff,,

As far as crunching the numbers go,, this has to be one of the closest I have had to the numbers and what the sim does being the same,, there is usually a small,, say 5 to 10% difference but this one is way closer,, so the one setup I was playing with called for 157.245Nm of torque to counter the rotation and with 157.25Nm it took a very long time to reduce the rate of rotation,, it was at the same value for like 30 time units before any change,, then stayed there for another like 30 time units,, and so on.

Not to bad for a sim with an error :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline webby1

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Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2016, 10:08:50 PM »
I have been trying to get a basic setup to not error,,  I thought I had it,, 16339 frames and then it erred,,

Well I guess I need to try a few more things and hope for the best.

I think a stable starting system is needed before things can be taken seriously,, like the one running on the laptop right now,, it is slowly going faster and faster but when I straighten out the pivots that get moved by the software it goes back to being a perfect oscillator,, right now it has gained from about 20 degrees per second average to about 125,, there are many pivots that are no longer sitting on the arms they are supposed to be holding together,, well one is floating in space and the others have shifted,, a LOT!

The funny thing with that is the amplitude of oscillation has grown as I would expect from those shifts

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Simoscopy
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2016, 10:08:50 PM »

 

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