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Author Topic: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment  (Read 14341 times)

Offline pomodoro

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The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« on: August 27, 2015, 02:19:08 PM »
What do you guys think is really going on with the light globe in the famous demonstration of '89 by Eric Dollard and Lindermann? Copper foil is attracted to it, a repulsive force is felt, and its light can charge up a nearby capacitor to thousands of volts in a few seconds?
It was also replicated again by an older Eric lately in the link below.

Is is just static , electrons being shot out of the bulb , or is it something unexplainable? 

The old experiment, watch from 20:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFa-IymyWHM


The 'new' replication
http://www.gestaltreality.com/energy-synthesis/eric-dollard/teslas-radiant-matter-replication-by-mark-mckay/


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Offline gyulasun

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2015, 12:28:46 AM »
Hi pomodoro,

For the following possible explanations to be correct, I assume that the point in the output circuit where the bulb is connected (with the two pieces of wires) has an average HV DC component, i.e. not AC, no zero crossing.
So it is very probable that the filament wire in the bulb floats on HV DC pulses with respect to (system) ground. That would explain why the copper foil is attracted towards the filament of the bulb (normal static attraction).

I think that the repel force sensed by the fingers right on the outside surface of bulb can be explained by the principle of a HV lifter. Our body with our fingers as 'pointers' is a capacitor with respect to our close vicinity, (which is mainly the ground) and could be considered as one of the 'plates' and the other 'plate' is just the filament surface floating on HV DC, the two can constitute an asymmetrical capacitor needed to get thrust the fingers feel.
The HV DC pulses could charge up a capacitor too.
What do you think?

Gyula


Offline pomodoro

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2015, 07:02:56 AM »
Hi Gyula, I agree with your explanation, but how would a DC potential build up on the secondary? Even a DC pulsed into the tesla hi Q secondary should turn into AC. I researched those ' diodes' they are not diodes at all but hydrogen discharge tubes that were used in radar systems. They will conduct either way once they break down.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2015, 07:51:59 AM »
Note the neons at either end of the "secondary". Under certain conditions these can act as rectifiers or "detectors". However, the whole setup is, as is typical with ED, a kludge which suffers from PTBarnum-style showmanship, meaningless jargon and lack of good measurements. It gets a big "so what" from me. One wire power transmission using dangerously  high voltages to light up a little bulb and charge a capacitor? Invoking the holy name of Tesla, which is sure to make the sheeple bow and scrape, with glassed-over eyeballs? SO WHAT.

The story about how the apparatus was destroyed during a 5-block move to a new lab, and never rebuilt... is hilarious.

Meanwhile, I do _no wire_ power transmission using low, safe, voltages, lighting bulbs brighter than when they are directly connected to the battery, and charging caps to much higher voltages than is supplied by the battery source. And I don't spend a lot of money doing it. So what?

(To call the Diathermy high-voltage source a "Tesla Coil" is a real stretch, and is typical of Dollard's distortions and misrepresentations. Is an automotive ignition coil a "Tesla Coil"? How about a CRT flyback transformer? No, friends, they are not. A Tesla Coil is a 1/4 wave aircore resonator that functions by VRSWR, Voltage Rise through Standing Wave Resonance. Dollard knows this, and also knows that dropping the name of Tesla whenever he can is a surefire way to bamboozle the hopeful innocents in his audience.)  Here's what a small 24 VDC powered _actual_ Tesla Coil actually does:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIZClhoU2Xk


Offline pomodoro

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2015, 11:56:33 AM »
Awesome lil' tesla there TK.   Yep, Dollard's experiment is no replication of the tesla coil at all, after all, tesla grounded one of the secondaries and transmitted power to the other coil through space. Dollard  directly connects the two with a wire and the globe, and doesn't use the two coil turn of the secondary at all.  Im going to spend a little time to see if I can get the same effect as he did with the globe. I found some 15W 240V vacuum filament bulbs and I have a small Oudin coil, so all I need is a bit of time..

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2015, 11:56:33 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2015, 12:23:33 PM »

.... how would a DC potential build up on the secondary?
....

Hi pomodoro,

That is okay you question that and normally the answer would be: there is no way. 
However, at least one thing has to be considered: a HV capacitor (mentioned as door knob type) cannot readily be charged up by AC unless you are always lucky to interrupt the charging process at one of the peak amplitudes (or near to it) of the AC voltage.
Another thing is that the two scope shots under the pictures and schematics in your link show DC component (268V and 334V) if I understand it correctly.  (I am a bit uncertain though where the zero lines are in the scope shots (probably in the middle main line or very near to it where number 1 is shown on the right side in each shot) but the two DC values are included in the display.)
I do think that tuning such system is the main issue to get virtually 'any' waveform at the output, even having an average DC level too.

Gyula

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2015, 06:07:05 PM »
Hi pomodoro,

That is okay you question that and normally the answer would be: there is no way. 
However, at least one thing has to be considered: a HV capacitor (mentioned as door knob type) cannot readily be charged up by AC unless you are always lucky to interrupt the charging process at one of the peak amplitudes (or near to it) of the AC voltage.
Another thing is that the two scope shots under the pictures and schematics in your link show DC component (268V and 334V) if I understand it correctly.  (I am a bit uncertain though where the zero lines are in the scope shots (probably in the middle main line or very near to it where number 1 is shown on the right side in each shot) but the two DC values are included in the display.)
I do think that tuning such system is the main issue to get virtually 'any' waveform at the output, even having an average DC level too.

Gyula

The scopeshots appear to be from a LeCroy scope. The scopeshots show Channel 1 only. The baselines are shown by the digit "1" and the horizontal line at the right edge of the trace display area. In both shots Channel 1 is AC coupled, so any DC component will be filtered out. Apparently a 1000x probe is being used; the actual channel setting is 0.1V/div and the probe factor makes it 100V/div.

The DC values (268 V and 334 V) shown on the shots are the Trigger voltage settings wrt the channel baseline. The trigger voltage level is indicated by the little triangles on either side of the trace display area, and the horizontal position of the trigger is indicated by the small arrow at the bottom of the trace display. The trigger is set to rising edge, as indicated by the symbol to the left of the "DC 268 V". These values are -NOT- values of the traces themselves, they are trigger voltage settings. You can confirm this by looking at the little triangles on either side of the trace display and comparing their levels to the channel baseline indicators.

The timebase is set to 0.5 microseconds per division for both shots. On the top shot, the waveform peaks indicate a frequency of about 1.2 or 1.25 MHz, NOT the value indicated on the screen. (There is about one cycle in 0.8 us, or three cycles in 2.5 us). On the bottom shot, the waveform peaks indicate a frequency of about 2.47 MHz, in rough agreement with the value indicated on the screen as read by the cursor position (arrow on waveform at second peak) wrt the trigger point.

I think that the numbers in the channel setting boxes -20.0 v and -47 v normally indicate the offset, or vertical position wrt the center graticule marker, but these don't seem to correspond to the actual baseline positions as shown by the markers on the right side. So I'm wondering if the traces have been moved after the scope is stopped.

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2015, 06:07:05 PM »
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Offline Panul

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2015, 07:13:58 PM »
The problem is not that Dollard "tries to deceive" anyone. He just uses his own terminology and makes a few mistakes. All electrical phenomena can be deduced by the ampere and coulomb forces. Every other needlessly fancy or complex explanation is bogus.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2015, 08:03:53 PM »
The scopeshots appear to be from a LeCroy scope. The scopeshots show Channel 1 only.
.....

Hi TinselKoala,

Thank you for the kind explanations, now all the details are clear for those scope shots (I am not really familiar with LeCroy scopes, got used to mainly to Tektronix, first the analog 454 for decades, then a digital TDS220 and now an OWON).

@pomodoro, sorry for my mistake on the scope shots on the DC values.  Still there has to be a resultant DC average for the waveform to cause attraction for the metal foil or some repulsive thrust for the fingers.   8)
Unfortunately, the two scopeshots are not indicated which test points they were taken at.  Or are they? have not found reference.

Gyula

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2015, 11:09:00 AM »
 
Quote
The schematic for the Diathermy Machine is missing the four (4) spark gaps in shunt with the High voltage transformer secondary.  These missing components are the result of a drafting error.
Eric Dollard says there are historical corrections that need to be made to this text, but we didn’t have time to make these at the conference. As soon as this information is available a revised document will be provided. So take the history of this device with a grain of salt for now.



So.... is it "soon" yet? Where is the revised and corrected document, does anybody know?
Quote

The scope traces are taken directly from the Diathermy Machine between the “Indifferent (Ground)” and the “High” terminals using a LeCroy 7kV 1000X 100 Meg Probe. These output connections are from the Diathermy Machine’s Tesla Coil Primary. The internal Tesla secondary was not used. Even though no current was taken from the Tesla secondary it still impacts the natural output frequency. In a dark room streamers from the Tesla terminal can be seen.
For most of the conference the IB22 Spark Tubes were shorted across because the tubes appear to have melted portions in their outer walls. It was the intent to tune the system to the natural frequency of the Diathermy machine. The initial capacitance of the two vacuum capacitor banks was 700 pF for the Left Wagon Wheel and 718 pF for the Right Wagon Wheel. Some minor adjustments were made during the conference
Mark McKay, PE


Which doesn't help much since the schematic for the Diathermy machine is incorrect and incomplete.  So, really, the scopeshots are meaningless and misleading, but are just there to make Dollard's sheeple go "ooh" and "ah...". 

Don't you just love it when people use many thousands of dollards... er, sorry, dollars worth of fancy equipment to produce meaningless and uninterpretable data?


I think that "grain of salt" has to be a pretty huge crystal of rock salt.

 

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2015, 11:09:00 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2015, 11:11:14 AM »
The problem is not that Dollard "tries to deceive" anyone. He just uses his own terminology and makes a few mistakes. All electrical phenomena can be deduced by the ampere and coulomb forces. Every other needlessly fancy or complex explanation is bogus.

I agree with the latter part of your statement... but.... Do you know the full history of Eric Dollard? I think the deliberate deceptions he has been involved with are clearly documented. Follow the money....

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2015, 11:36:38 AM »
I've just made some tests with a simple "Kacher" circuit exciter-type SSTC and it definitely attracts a strip of lightweight aluminum foil, just as I suspected it would. Both to the secondary coil itself, and to a lightbulb load connected to the top of the coil. This is most definitely an AC system. The reason for the attraction is electrostatic, just as the plates of a capacitor are drawn together, even if the cap is charged with AC: the plates are oppositely charged and so are drawn together. This is the principle of the common electrostatic voltmeter, after all, which works for both AC and DC high voltages.

http://www.elect.mrt.ac.lk/HV_Chap6.pdf


Offline pomodoro

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2015, 03:59:05 PM »
TK I just did the same with an Electrotechnics  BD10A 500khz coil and there was no attraction of the Al foil to the output terminal of 25-50kV. Strange.

But then when the  terminal discharges through a 25w long vacuum filled globe to earth it has enough power to slightly heat the filament to a little redness. Putting my hand around the tube a force is feflt and the filament moves towards my  hand , ( or away, not sure) oscillating with the primary spark discharge. No attraction to the tube by foil either, the foil is dangling from cotton thread. Perhaps I should use conducting thread and earth or hold it to increase its capacitance.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2015, 07:57:02 PM »
Yes, my foil strip or sheet was hanging from a bamboo chopstick, which I held in my hand. These chopsticks are very slightly conductive to HV, so my foil was resistively coupled to my body which is then coupled capacitively to ground. Maybe that accounts for the difference.


Offline gyulasun

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2015, 10:28:05 PM »
Hi TinselKoala,

Unfortunately I did not read through the comments under the scope shots so did not notice Mark McKay's "explanations" on the scope shots,  thanks for quoting it (I went through the full text above the scope shots only).

Thanks also for mentioning the electrostatic voltmeter, indeed it works for both DC and AC HV too.
I quote from wiki because for me it is always a good thing to brush up old info/knowledge I tend to forget:   
"Principle of operation
Electrostatic voltmeter utilizes the attraction force between two charged surfaces to create a deflection of a pointer directly calibrated in volts. Since the attraction force is the same regardless of the polarity of the charged surfaces (as long as the charge is opposite), the electrostatic voltmeter can measure both direct current and alternating current."
(from link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_voltmeter )

Gyula

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Re: The Eric Dollard Lightglobe experiment
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2015, 10:28:05 PM »

 

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