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Author Topic: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)  (Read 15185 times)

Offline poynt99

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2015, 04:41:17 AM »
Evidently he doesn't even understand the current theory.

If he doesn't understand the current theory, how can his conclusion about it being wrong be well founded?

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Offline joel321

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2015, 10:50:00 AM »
Quote
Evidently he doesn't even understand the current theory.

This logic I have passed a lot myself which now has me asking, what makes you 100% certain you, yourself, understand the current theory?

Trust me GREED just makes a person with money believe that he designed a computer and invented the wheel.

I could look at the opposite and think “All we know is Right” and I can count shyt lot of things why that is not 100% accurate...lol

Now if he does not understand the current theory 100% means, in your mind, that he is 100% wrong...ok, cool, now who or what makes you to be the 100% understanding of the current theory? And  are all theories STATIC? Just curious.

Offline forest

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2015, 12:11:16 PM »
If you understand current theory then you can explain what is "electric charge" , right ? Go on...

Offline poynt99

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2015, 02:41:21 AM »
Put on your thinking caps guys. I'm quite tired of spelling things out for you.

Let me rephrase things a little; it appears that he doesn't understand the basics or fundamentals of current theory. If you understood the basics of induction etc., you would be questioning the need for his new theory, rather than questioning the current theory itself.

Offline ayeaye

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2015, 11:15:44 PM »
What I don't understand is Chen Ning Yang's  equation. What is so special about it?
It is difficult for me because i don't have so great knowledge about these things, as i only recently started to look more into them, and now i should understand them, with my simple mind.

Well, mathematics is a modeling, which describes the reality more or less accurately. Means there can be any gibberish in it, which may just happen to describe something in the reality, or then may not. In mathematics this may have some abstract meaning, but it does not necessarily have the same meaning in the reality. In the reality it has only as much meaning as much it happens to describe the reality, the full mathematical meaning may just be a mental exercise.

It is that Maxwell liked to express everything, including the Faraday's law and the Ampere's law, in a vector form. He kind of extended the original equations in several ways, only based on mathematics, not that the experiments confirmed that. One of that was expressing everything as a vector, including the potential. The expressions that were originally in a simple form, with values only, and not in the vector form.

Now Chen Ning Yang argues that the evidence confirms that these mathematical extensions in the equations by Maxwell, in fact correspond to the reality. He especially mentions the Aharonov-Bohm experiment. But, if you read my post here "What is induction?", you may see that there are possible other explanations. By that, if the dipole is side-wise towards the wire, that is the electron flow, then the dipole does not "pump" the electrons in one direction, as it happens when the rotating dipole moves in the relation to the electron flow. Thus, there is no generally known effect. Yet the revolving electron in the dipole affects the electrons somewhat, likely making them to move slightly back and forth. This may well change the vibration of the electrons, causing it to phase shift. What Aharonov-Bohm experiment shows. So it may have a really simple explanation, with no need of any vectors or additions in the Maxwell's equations. By only what has always been known, that charged particles attract or repulse each other.

Chen Ning Yang spokes like everything Maxwell wrote was so right, that everything must be taken as a truth. I could agree with it if i had the same faith in the Maxwell's writings as Chen Ning Yang has. Unfortunately i have no reason to trust everything Maxwell said, that much. As i know that Maxwell has other questionable extensions to his equations.

One is his extension to the Ampere's equation. As Ampere's equation originally states just that the magnetic field induced by a current, is linear to the strength of the current. But Maxwell added to it another component, which is creation of the magnetic field due to the changing electrostatic field. This has never been experimentally confirmed. This should mean that with a capacitor one should be able to create a magnetic field, no one has done that yet. And furthermore, a capacitor then can be used as an antenna to generate radio waves, as much as i know, capacitor cannot be used as an antenna.

This invalidates all the conventional explanation of what radio waves are. Because this is based on such artificially extended equation by Maxwell. More likely i think radio waves are just a propagation of a changing magnetic field, with no electrostatic component. This is what Maxwell himself suggested.

Now go further and ask how radio waves can propagate in a vacuum. Likely no one really knows. But it is also not exactly known what vacuum is, certainly it is a more complex structure than just an empty space. There are said to be certain "virtual particles" in the vacuum, some of these may be magnetic dipoles, as they have spin. Any particle that has a spin can be a magnetic dipole, and as much as i know, all particles have spin, except the higgs bosons. And magnetic dipoles are then all that is necessary for propagation of radio waves.

So i said all i could think about, my two cents, or as i said hopefully some more cents, so that i can buy a cup of coffee ;)

You may also read my post "What is induction?" here, where i described the idea i got, of how to explain induction. The drawing below is from that post.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2015, 11:15:44 PM »
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Offline poynt99

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2015, 02:30:31 PM »
Nice to see you around Loner.  :)

Offline ramset

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2015, 03:02:05 PM »
Yes I Agree
Nice to see you around and a pleasure to read your opinions.
Chet K

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2015, 03:02:05 PM »
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Offline joel321

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2015, 09:53:37 AM »
Ayeaye, “alien” you think A LOT which is good for “evolution” but it could also mean mean “full of dookie”. (which is who isn't do "aliens" poop?)

Have you seen an “electron” move around a proton? (dig deeper with the shovel lol)

ELECTRONS move counter or clockwise or even in steps….that's not important! What is important is their purpose!

Think of the sun...I’m sure there are electrons going clock-wise counter-clockwise around the sun! BUT WHAT IS THIS FORMULA? That makes air?

I can picture protons, any type of quantum, spinning in all directions, just that the frequency makes SENSE! Having said that, ELECTRONS MOVE COUNTER CLOCKWISE AND CLOCKWISE.
Where is the “positive” cross inside the “freeway” road you constructed?

Is that how your brain neurotic drawing looks like ayeaye?  ;D

Offline joel321

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2015, 10:04:31 AM »
Ayeaye, those are a lot of words for such disappointing drawing talent. Why are those “electrons” going in a straight line in the nucleus of your imagination in their opposite direction BUT yet STILL spinning clockwise? You just showed a drawing of clockwise electron flow… IF YOU LOOK from the opposite direction, you showed a counterclockwise flow...NOW you FORGOT, which way is the proton spinning? + in conclusion, not very implosive but CAN YOU THINK DEEPER? "ALIEN".
 

Offline ayeaye

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2015, 10:48:32 AM »
ELECTRONS move counter or clockwise or even in steps….
Counter-clockwise or clockwise, it only depends on from what side you look. I know electrons don't really revolve around the nucleus, they are structures and don't look like physical bodies. But it doesn't matter, that they revolve, this is an approximation, and even when they move in steps, everything remains essentially the same. Not only electrons but, almost all particles have a spin, and thus they may act like magnetic dipoles. There are these even in vacuum, like particles which only for a short time come to life. This i think is why there can be magnetic fields in vacuum.

Yes and, in what way are neutrons spinning, matters too, if you want to think even deeper. Likely that effect is weaker than the electron spinning though, as they mostly don't consider this. Yet, no matter how it is, this doesn't change anything in essence, an atom may act as a magnetic dipole, because of electrons spinning. Not all atoms can, like i think i heard that the hydrogen atoms cannot, and this may have to do with some of these additional effects.

This alien thing was a joke, and i said that before. This nick, i had to choose some, and couldn't think about any. The story goes, once i said that i'm from Madagascar, in irc, the fun in it was that no one knew where is Madagascar, and knew nothing about it. But at the same time, some guys showed their cgi animals there, very similar to these from the movie Madagascar. So maybe that was where they got the idea to call the movie Madagascar. Well and then, someone started to talk to me about ayeayes. Yes i cannot draw, and that too i have said here earlier. I cannot draw because i don't have a good visual thinking, so this is the way how i can express myself, you have to satisfy with my bad drawings.

And i have to engage in things which i don't know, this is what thinking out something new, always involves.

I answered your questions, now you are still not satisfied, so i cannot figure out what it is what you really want.

Well, i showed my bad drawing, showing how electrons touch each other, in the ##math channel. They said that it's a better idea than some wheeler-feynman ones, which assume some really bizarre things.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2015, 10:48:32 AM »
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Offline joel321

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2015, 11:49:59 AM »
Ayeaye, please just explain what are you thinking in the freeway of electrons in your drawing? AND, what makes you think it is FREEE of protons ONLY “spinning” clockwise? BUTTT, IF THERE IS AN “INDUCTION” THERE IS AN “OUTDUCTION”= counter?!

AT first I thought your where an “alien” here with intelligence trying to “fit in” earth but now I'm 100% sure you are just confused..lol.

Why is it that in your drawing only the electron moves clockwise? EVEN if you show it can move counter? = Your drawing is LAZY!

I was KIND OF HOPING YOU WHERE AN ALIEN HERE POSTING BUT NOW I JUST KNOW YOU ARE JUST MEARLY HUMAN! LOL Most likely a student trying to learn.

Can you tell me that you are a mischievous alien that is trying to learn something new REGARDING HUMANS AND BROKE THE "ALIEN" LAWS TO UNDERSTAND SUCH THING AND THAT YOU WILL GET killes by the president for trying to get rid of GREED! OR, can you tell me that "the president" wants his wife to live for ever?

LOL I have a feeling that your drawing is pretty simple to understand in your frequency thaght thought> meh! Take that as an insult STUDENT! lol

Offline ayeaye

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2015, 02:08:15 PM »
Can you tell me that you are a mischievous alien that is trying to learn something new REGARDING HUMANS AND BROKE THE "ALIEN" LAWS TO UNDERSTAND SUCH THING AND THAT YOU WILL GET killes by the president for trying to get rid of GREED! OR, can you tell me that "the president" wants his wife to live for ever?
Well, this is funny :)

Offline joel321

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2015, 06:18:14 AM »
Ayeaye, my brain just goes on to this crazy wave thinking that only I can understand it's thinking. Sometimes my brain waves are my worse enemies lying to me...sometimes my brain waves makes me see the truth. It's crazy how “learning” works. = for ever action there is an equal an opposite reaction BUT there has to be more POSITIVE reaction on order to move forward!!! The human brain will keep on learning for infinity. Not just the human brain also bird brains, like the crow, will keep on evolving to learn as long as their population continues on to live. = there is no stopping of the waves of learning in the core of the brain = size does not matter when it comes to brains intelligence thinking. = problem solver = see truth! But that something for another forum.

You mention A LOT of things that you need to back up with real evidence...for example…

Quote
I know electrons don't really revolve around the nucleus, they are structures and don't look like physical bodies.

Now I’m assuming you are basing this from our human limits of understanding the quantum? = visual perspective. What is the physical body of an electron constructed of? It seems to me that flesh has electrons, metal has electrons, glass has electrons, water has electrons, air has electrons, rocks has electrons, SO how do the electrons look from all I mentioned? I'm assuming even in outer space there are electrons floating around. Please show me a picture of any matter electron particle?

Also, I really want to understand your picture of “Induction” ...I can look at it for minutes and does not mean any engineering architecture blue print to the ideas in your brain!

1- What does those two lines that hold a negative bubble represent?

2- What does those two protons represent on the paper?

3- That drawing needs WAYYY more input for a visual animal to be ale to understand the “a picture speaks a thousand words”. 

Offline ayeaye

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2015, 03:07:06 PM »
Please show me a picture of any matter electron particle?

Also, I really want to understand your picture of “Induction” ...I can look at it for minutes and does not mean any engineering architecture blue print to the ideas in your brain!

1- What does those two lines that hold a negative bubble represent?

2- What does those two protons represent on the paper?

3- That drawing needs WAYYY more input for a visual animal to be ale to understand the “a picture speaks a thousand words”.

Well, i said that electron is a structure. I'm at odds in that, one cannot see such structures anywhere around. Except inside a cell, the cytoskeleton there is a changing network which forms such structures, like on the picture below. There is also a huge amount of such structure in a brain cell, more than in any other cell. Scientists tell us that this has nothing to do with the human thinking, and brain cells are just a primitive logic elements. Ayeayes don't think so, because their thinking is different.

This my picture of induction is very approximate, it is minimal only to give an idea.

The two lines that hold a negative bubble on my picture of induction, represent a wire of course. The negative bubble inside it is an electron. The protons represent the nuclei of atoms, there are more protons mostly, but this depicts a simple case. The electron near a proton there, is the electron that orbits the nucleus of the atom. This is like an atom depicted from "the top", so the electron orbits on the plane of the drawing. Atoms are magnetic dipoles, because of the electrons orbiting the nucleus. Already Ampere said that, he didn't know about electrons, but he thought that there is a circular current in the atom. The atoms are also orientated the way they are on the picture, when there is a small real current (movement of electrons) from down to up. This is also based on what Ampere said, the dipoles orientate in that way because they attract the most when the electrons in them and in the wire, move in the same direction.

The rest is my idea, as much as i know not said by anyone else, though i cannot be sure. The conventional explanation is by Lorentz factors, which i'm not sure whether it does or does not explain the same. This depicted there is the same about every electron in the wire. It is assumed that the electron at first stands still.

The picture shows two moments, one following the other. At first the dipole is further away from the wire, and the electron in it is at an earlier position on its orbit. Next (below) the dipole has moved closer to the wire, and the electron in the dipole has moved further on its orbit. This shows any two moments when the electron in the dipole is below the electron in the wire, and above the electron in the wire, at equal distances.

Now consider for now that the distance of the dipole from the wire does not change. Then at the first moment the speed which the electron in the dipole gives to the electron in the wire, is upwards. At the second moment the electron in the dipole gives to the electron in the wire an equal speed downwards. But because that speed is opposite to the speed with which the electron moved, as the final result the electron in the wire still stands still. This is why an unchanging magnetic field does not induce a current in the wire.

Now when the dipole moves towards the wire, everything is the same as described above. Except that the speed that the electron in the dipole gives to the electron in the wire is less at first, and greater next time, because meanwhile the dipole has moved closer to the wire, and thus the force to the electron is greater. Thus as the result, in the end the electron gets a speed downwards. This is how the movement of the dipole in relation to the wire, provides the asymmetry that makes the electrons in the wire to move. Also the speed that the electron gets is opposite to the initial current that caused the dipoles to orientate and move, this shows that induction causes an electromotive force that works against the current that caused it. As Faraday also found it to be.

I were talking about speed, but the same happens no matter how slow the speed is, that is how much resistance there is in the circuit. The asymmetry causing the electrons to move, is the same no matter how much resistance there is. So one may consider that the movement of the dipole towards the wire causes a force that makes the electrons to move. It is dynamic but, one may consider that there is a force to the electrons. This force is called an electromotive force, as Faraday called it.

Faraday could not explain the induction in that way, because the electrons were not yet discovered then. So he explained it through a magnetic field, because the magnetic field in a permanent magnet is also caused by the same magnetic dipoles, that is atoms. But magnetic field is also just a rotating electrostatic field. When two dipoles are against each other so that the electrons of both revolve on a parallel planes, then the dipoles attract each other when their electrons revolve in the same direction, and repulse each other when their electrons revolve in the opposite directions. Again for the same reason what Ampere said.

This were better to be discussed in my thread "What is induction?" here, but i answer questions anywhere they are asked. I hope that i could explain it clearly enough, i will answer any further questions, and i'm glad if anyone has anything else to say about that.

Offline joel321

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2015, 07:18:57 AM »
You said A LOT of things that are interesting ideas, BUT what causes an “electron” to stay the same in glass for example? If I put magnetic dust on top of the glass (which the glass has electrons) and a magnet at the bottom part of the glass, why NOT make electron from the glass effect it's glass form? There are electrons in the glass, there are electrons in the magnetic dust, there are electrons in the magnet BUT yet all keep their form UNTIL they are melted...as if heat gives birth to the structure of STATIC/DYNAMIC electrons. SO we have diversity electrons and an electron is not 100% the same in all. So they must have different structures upon themselves.

1- glass electron a
2- rock electron b
3- water electron c
4- electron on a copper wire d
and so on.

I'm sure there are static electrons and dynamic electrons. That could also be said about protons. BUT they all have to be moving either slow or 5 times the speed of light! Everything needs to move since if it does not, then it gets canceled out.

That picture you provided does not make sense to me. I kind of have a feeling that you are trying to explain air, we breathe it but we can't explain it. It is already there, but you are trying hard to explain why it is there lol.

Can you provide more pictures of your understanding?

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Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2015, 07:18:57 AM »

 

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