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Author Topic: The bearing motor  (Read 34190 times)

Offline Jimboot

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2015, 10:12:36 AM »
And the novice here was wondering what you brainiacs were on.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2015, 10:12:36 AM »

Offline tinman

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2015, 12:52:59 PM »
Just make a diagram of the homopolar motor and work it out for yourself like I tried a few postings ago for the bearing motor.  Before you tackle the bearing motor you want to be able to explain the homopolar motor and you may as well throw in explaining the aquarium vortex and bubbles business if you want.

All of the basic concepts have already been stated in the past week, so there is no point in repeating them.  It just a question of applying the concepts to the homopolar motor setup.

OK,so now all you have to do MH is explain as to how the bearing motor will spin in either direction,where as the homopolar motors direction of spin is determond by the direction of current flow,or the orientation of the magnetic fields.

I have looked at many diagrams as to how the homopolar motor is suppose to work,and it still dose not answer the question as to how the uniform stationary magnetic field around the wire creates a unidirectional force against the uniform magnetic field around the magnet. I see lots of pretty arrows around the wire and the PM,and all explanations say that the field around the wire pushes against the field lines of the PM-->the PM has no field line's,it is a uniform field. Mag's experiment also shows that something is being missed here.

I dont think anyone has actually stood back and had a good look at the homopolar motor,they just except what some one else has told them.

Now,below is a pic showing the fields and force direction of the homopolar motor.
So,we have an even uniform field around the magnet(there are no field lines),and we have a uniform field around the current carrying wire. We also see an arrow showing a force direction.
So please explain to me how this force is not uniform around the wire-->why is this force in only one direction when the two fields are uniform. Why dose the arrow showing force not point backwards-why dose it point forward?. This is like sticking your finger through the side of a bucket of water,and saying there is more pressure on one side of your finger than there is on the other.

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Offline ekimtoor1

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2015, 02:30:14 PM »

Offline allcanadian

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2015, 04:57:07 PM »
@Bill
Quote
Oh...Duh!  I read about the sphere within the sphere but it looked like he was
so careful in placing it on the stand like it was in hover position.  I just
looked again and...who the heck would pay 140 bucks for that?

OK, now I feel stupid.

Welcome to the human race and I catch myself all the time making assumptions concerning things I think I see that just ain't true. I like that globe because it is unintuitive and is a good example of how our mind is constantly playing tricks on us. I mean when I first saw the globe rotating on the stand in the video I fell for it hook, line and sinker and even after I knew exactly how it worked I still found it mesmerizing because the illusion is flawless.
I think the homopolar motor and the ball bearing motor are similar in nature because we know it must be very easy to understand fundamentally however our mind will not allow us to accept it for what it is due to our perspective. Our mind starts creating unworkable solutions then tries to justify them not unlike believing a globe can magically hover and rotate on a plexiglass stand which we know cannot work but there it is working. As I said I like these kinds of illusions because it gives us some valuable insight into how we perceive things and how easy it is to make false assumptions.
AC


Offline allcanadian

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2015, 05:35:17 PM »
@Tinman
Quote

Now,below is a pic showing the fields and force direction of the homopolar
motor.
So,we have an even uniform field around the magnet(there are no field
lines),and we have a uniform field around the current carrying wire. We also see
an arrow showing a force direction.
So please explain to me how this force is
not uniform around the wire-->why is this force in only one direction when
the two fields are uniform. Why dose the arrow showing force not point
backwards-why dose it point forward?. This is like sticking your finger through
the side of a bucket of water,and saying there is more pressure on one side of
your finger than there is on the other.

Below is a similar picture describing the direction of force found in every DC motor and as you can see only the layout has changed. The homoplar motor is a simple DC motor however our mind cannot put it into the proper perspective because we cannot connect the dots as easily as in the picture below.

AC

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2015, 05:35:17 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #50 on: June 02, 2015, 06:32:41 PM »
The spinning globes are great, and they want some margins after spending all that development money!  One thing that is worth mentioning is that the inner globe is floating on two oils, one is more dense than the other.  That's the solution to the vertical stabilization problem.   If you had a keen eye, you might be able to see the boundary layer between the two oils.

You figure that this novelty item could possibly spin for tens or even hundreds of years!   He also mentioned that the motor can run on as low as one microwatt of power.  I wonder how close Lidmotor has gotten to one microwatt.  Perhaps he has already done it.

As a far fetched guess, you wonder if after 100 years a thriving bacterial colony might be living inside the globe.  They would just genetically adapt to the new harsh environment.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #51 on: June 02, 2015, 06:38:33 PM »
@Tinman
Below is a similar picture describing the direction of force found in every DC motor and as you can see only the layout has changed. The homoplar motor is a simple DC motor however our mind cannot put it into the proper perspective because we cannot connect the dots as easily as in the picture below.

AC

I think it may be more like the second pic I modified from the one you posted.  I dont believe the field lines below the current carrying wire would bow outward(down) from the wire.  Above the wire, the field lines of the current carrying wire are in the same direction as the field lines of the magnets. So I believe the field lines of the wire push away(upward) the field lines of the magnets, because like fields on a similar path push away from each other. Same as the field coming out of the pole of a magnet, they want to expand away from each other. Slice that magnet down the middle, pole to pole, having 2 N on top and 2 S on the bottom, and the 2 halves will want to push away from each other. ;)

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #51 on: June 02, 2015, 06:38:33 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #52 on: June 02, 2015, 06:43:13 PM »
Quote
So please explain to me how this force is not uniform around the wire

There is nothing to explain again.  Just look at how the Lorentz force works from my favourite guy and apply it to the homopolar motor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fbhcdS328c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fnq8TGbTfE

I did a partial markup of the your graphic where I added the missing wire.  Just add the missing force to the diagram and see what you get.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #53 on: June 02, 2015, 06:57:59 PM »
There is nothing to explain again.  Just look at how the Lorentz force works from my favourite guy and apply it to the homopolar motor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fbhcdS328c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fnq8TGbTfE

I did a partial markup of the your graphic where I added the missing wire.  Just add the missing force to the diagram and see what you get.

In your pic, wouldnt the other wire(added to the left) with current going upward want to go CCW(top view) while the wire to the right wants to go CW?

Mags

Edit   Ok, you have corrected the drawing so current flows down in the left hand wire..  The pic disappeared for a bit while I was copying, so you must have edited it.

Offline tinman

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #54 on: June 02, 2015, 07:27:49 PM »
In your pic, wouldnt the other wire(added to the left) with current going upward want to go CCW(top view) while the wire to the right wants to go CW?

Mags

Edit   Ok, you have corrected the drawing so current flows down in the left hand wire..  The pic disappeared for a bit while I was copying, so you must have edited it.
Ah-see-->bingo right there mag's. If that pic is now correct,then how did your magnet roll when your setup resembled the first modified pic,where the current flow went up the left wire,not down.

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #54 on: June 02, 2015, 07:27:49 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #55 on: June 02, 2015, 07:30:56 PM »
Well because of my initial mistake with the direction of the current in the added wire, I was flummoxed when the motor initially did not work when I checked it in my head.  Then I discovered my mistake and edited the diagram.

The mistake turned me into an inventor.  AC would be proud.  It might not be penicillin, but my error allowed me to stumble into bold new realms.  I present to you the "Grasshopper Oscillator."

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2015, 11:04:36 AM »
Quote
OK,so now all you have to do MH is explain as to how the bearing motor will spin in either direction,where as the homopolar motors direction of spin is determond by the direction of current flow,or the orientation of the magnetic fields.

I gave you a possible explanation for that in post #33.


Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2015, 11:35:10 AM »
Quote
I have looked at many diagrams as to how the homopolar motor is suppose to work,and it still dose not answer the question as to how the uniform stationary magnetic field around the wire creates a unidirectional force against the uniform magnetic field around the magnet. I see lots of pretty arrows around the wire and the PM,and all explanations say that the field around the wire pushes against the field lines of the PM-->the PM has no field line's,it is a uniform field. Mag's experiment also shows that something is being missed here.

I dont think anyone has actually stood back and had a good look at the homopolar motor,they just except what some one else has told them.

Now,below is a pic showing the fields and force direction of the homopolar motor.
So,we have an even uniform field around the magnet(there are no field lines),and we have a uniform field around the current carrying wire. We also see an arrow showing a force direction.
So please explain to me how this force is not uniform around the wire-->why is this force in only one direction when the two fields are uniform. Why dose the arrow showing force not point backwards-why dose it point forward?. This is like sticking your finger through the side of a bucket of water,and saying there is more pressure on one side of your finger than there is on the other.

Is how the homopolar motor works clear to you now?  Did you "fill in the blanks" when you add the second wire?

Quote
Why dose the arrow showing force not point backwards-why dose it point forward?

Why does the force point in the direction it points in?  Have you mastered the business about the Lorentz force and the associated cross-product between the current flow and the external magnetic field?

If you are going to move forward then you need to understand how the homopolar motor works and it all should be as clear as a bell to you.  To me it seems like you get stopped at the first hurdle you come across and then right away you are suggesting that there is some "monkeyshines" solution to explain what you are observing.  The reality is that it's never the case.  Instead of waiting for someone to spoon-feed you the answer to get yourself past the first hurdle you need to put the effort in to work through the problem and arrive at a solution that you understand from the ground up.

The homopolar motor is a trivial example of the interaction between an external magnetic field and a current-carrying wire.  It needs to be understood fully.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2015, 11:45:23 AM »
So, Brad, why am I pushing this issue?

It's because of bullshit like this:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAl1LVPbYhY

That's good old "Al" a.k.a. "ACCA."   In the clip he says, "A tornado type of magnetic field that is unknown to science."

All that he is doing is showing his ignorance about magnetic fields and his stupidity when he "makes up" a bunch of incorrect crap to supposedly explain the swirling water and bubbles in his many "aquarium" clips.

"I see swirling water in my experiment therefore the magnetic field must be a spinning vortex" is just plain stupidity.  Chances are Al never opened up a book to try to figure out what was going on and he is displaying his ignorance and his foolish arrogance by "teaching" people complete BS.  That crap has to be fixed and I realize that it is a continuous uphill battle on a free energy forum.

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Offline tinman

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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2015, 01:31:03 PM »
I see you did what everyone else dose when i ask the question MH,your answer is just to quote the lorentz force without explaining why the lorentz force acts in only one direction. The lorentz force direction is an aplication,not an answer. It is just the same with the magnetic field-->we dont know what the magnetic force is-it just is.

Below is a pic of the magnetic field around a current carrying wire. The field is uniform,and the arrows mean nothing. There is also a pic of the field around a PM.You will see a red dot-that is our current carrying wire touching the center of a rod magnet. So picture the wire coming from your eyes,and going straight into the magnet. So as we can see,we have a static field around the wire imerced in a static field around the rod magnet. We apply current and the magnet spins.

So now,why is the force from the wire pushing on one side of the magnetic field of the magnet,and not the other side with the same amount of force-when both magnetic fields are uniform. The field from the magnet is exactly the same in front of the wire as it is behind the wire. The field around the wire is also uniform. So why is there a force in the direction of the green arrow,and not the blue arrow-as everything is the same as far as fields go.

And since when did applying a force to a magnetic field cause the magnet to spin?<--in this situation. The same should apply in reverse. We should be able to spin the magnet,and create a force-right?. No ,we cant,because the field on either side of the wire is uniform.

It's like i said,most dont stop and have a really good look at what there being asked to accept.
This is much like the homopolar generator-why do you have to spin it to get current from it. Why dosnt it matter wether or not the magnets spin with the disk?. The reasons given are just another hack job at what isnt yet understood,and that is the magnetic field.


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Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2015, 01:31:03 PM »

 

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