Cookies-law

Cookies help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
http://www.overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please leave this website now. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

Poplamp

poplamp

CCTool

CCTool

LEDTVforSale

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

OverUnity Book

overunity principles book

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 82004
  • *Latest: Gogo

  • *Total Posts: 493054
  • *Total Topics: 14497
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 147
  • *Total: 148

Facebook

Author Topic: The bearing motor  (Read 34973 times)

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5631
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2015, 11:57:35 PM »
Quick check?  ::) Tin says it doesnt start till you give it a spin, in either direction of rotation and continues in that direction of rotation no matter the polarity of input. Are you saying he lying? ::)

From what I understand, a rail gun is directional and doesnt require a push start.

Mags

I stand corrected.  If only a metal object, with no magnets, it does need an initial start. 

So, the intial rotation of the balls, sets up some angular fields that corespond to the fields in the rails/races to produce continuous motion.  These offsets of the balls fields most likely become greater with higher speed of rotation, giving more push/pull.

So larger balls, or bearing diameter should be more efficient with this setup I believe. More outer dia torque and the ability for the balls to spin faster giving more offset.

My apologies mh.   my mind was more on coil guns.

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2015, 11:57:35 PM »

Offline Pirate88179

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8362
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2015, 12:29:40 AM »
I stand corrected.  If only a metal object, with no magnets, it does need an initial start. 

So, the intial rotation of the balls, sets up some angular fields that corespond to the fields in the rails/races to produce continuous motion.  These offsets of the balls fields most likely become greater with higher speed of rotation, giving more push/pull.

So larger balls, or bearing diameter should be more efficient with this setup I believe. More outer dia torque and the ability for the balls to spin faster giving more offset.

My apologies mh.   my mind was more on coil guns.

Mags

Mags:

I submit that the balls in the bearing have nothing to do with the rotation.  How do I know this?  I don't, I am just speculating.  I believe that if the bearings were of a thin V groove in the end plates, with the shaft sitting in the V...maybe a little lubrication added, it would spin the same as it is now except for more friction.

I just think the bearing are conducting the power to the shaft and nothing more.

Again, just my thoughts, no evidence or proof here.

Bill


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5631
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2015, 01:25:51 AM »
Searl SEG

Mags

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5631
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2015, 01:41:15 AM »
Roller or needle bearings will have more surface contact area for less losses at connections of moving parts.

Just seen a vid on yt that shows the addition of mags at the ends of the shaft seems to help with self starting. Just an iron rod with 2 strips of tin foil on a flat surface. With mags on the ends of the rod, self starting. No mags, needs a push. Might want to give that a try on your axle shaft. Different mag polarity may have to be tried on each end to see if it helps or not.

Mags


Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4880
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2015, 04:25:20 AM »
AC has it right, it works on the magnetic component of the Lorentz force.  So, it works just like just about any other motor, they are just making it difficult to visualize how and where the Lorentz force is acting.



Quote
I think that it's important to mention that even before you even start, you already know how it works.  That's a fundamental realization.It's not surprising that when you change the polarity of the applied voltage the motor continues in the same direction.  Figure the motor out, and the reason for this will become self-evident.
Tinman said that it can rotate in either direction.  I did a quick check and I disagree, it looks like the motor will always turn in the same direction, for both a regular and a reversed battery connection.  I looked at the rail gun and noted that the rail gun will also shoot in the same direction when you change the polarity.

Well you better go back to the drawing board on this one MH,as it spins in either direction,and that direction is dependant on which direction you spin it before applying the current.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2015, 04:25:20 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4880
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2015, 04:31:27 AM »
Searl SEG

Mags
It seems you are thinking along the same lines as me Mags,as i made reference to the SEG in my first post. Here we apply current to create magnetic fields which creates rotation,where as the SEG uses magnetic fields to create rotation that creates current.

Im waiting for my device to get liftoff lol.

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4880
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2015, 06:14:31 AM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2015, 06:14:31 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline allcanadian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1320
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2015, 07:03:36 AM »
@tinman
Nice demonstration however I don't think it discounts the Lorentz force completely it simply means it may not apply in the way I had originally thought. I think I have to agree with MH on this one and say it should apply but I have yet to determine exactly how and where and why.


Thanks for doing the demo because this means we can rule out a fair amount of things we can assume should not be happening. I did the basic tests however I am going to have to go back to the drawing board on this one... so it works with AC in both directions and DC in both directions?....Hmm.... that is interesting.


I should have a better solution in the morning.


AC

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5631
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2015, 01:21:17 AM »
This is a vid I did just a while ago. It must be showing the same effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s56ghlm0oJw

And this is the vid I saw yesterday that shows with and without magnets.  Can FF to the experiment beyond the assembly of foil tracks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH08iDj2yic


It appears that the addition of magnets not only gives self starting, but has more go also.  So there may be an improvement in adding mags to the bearing motor.

Mags

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2015, 10:52:52 AM »
Tinman:

Yes I was not 100% sure that the motor would only run in one direction as reflected in my choice of words.

So what is the reason for stating that it's not surprising that the motor runs the same way when you flip the polarity?  The reason is very simple.  For starters we know that the motor runs because of the Lorentz force.  That force vector is the crossproduct of the current flow with the external magnetic field.   We also know that in this case the current flow itself produces the external magnetic field.  So if you reverse the current flow, you also reverse the direction of the external magnetic field.  So it's like a double-negative and you end up with a force vector in the same direction when you flip the polarity of the applied voltage and do the cross-product.

So that means the motor spins in the same direction if you reverse the applied voltage to the terminals.  So yes the motor will run on AC, but it is certainly not an "AC motor" in the normal sense of that term.

As shown in your clip the motor will run in either direction.  It's just a question of working out the geometry to explain everything.  It's like Bill said, this is just a variation on a homopolar motor like the one people make with a standing AA cell and a paperclip.  It's also just a variation on one of those mislabelled "swirling aquarium water and bubbles" clips.

Somewhere within the bearing structure you have current flow at an angle with the external magnetic field produced by that very same current flow and that is creating a tangential force that results in torque being applied to the motor.   That is the only possible explanation and the real exercise is to figure out and show where it is happening.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2015, 10:52:52 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2015, 11:29:55 AM »
Attached is my chicken scratching drawing which is presumably a failed attempt to account for the torque generation.

It's a very bare-bones drawing.  You are looking at a rectangular piece of the axle which looks like a simple wireframe.  There is a B field "vortex" swirling around the end of the axle because of the radial current flowing through the disc of the physical bearing.

Alas, it looks like the axle gets a full 360-degree outward-pulling radial tug that cancels itself out.  That does not put any torque on the axle.

However, you can see the exploration process done in making the drawing.

Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4880
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2015, 01:30:00 PM »
Tinman:

Yes I was not 100% sure that the motor would only run in one direction as reflected in my choice of words.

So what is the reason for stating that it's not surprising that the motor runs the same way when you flip the polarity?  The reason is very simple.  For starters we know that the motor runs because of the Lorentz force.  That force vector is the crossproduct of the current flow with the external magnetic field.   We also know that in this case the current flow itself produces the external magnetic field.  So if you reverse the current flow, you also reverse the direction of the external magnetic field.  So it's like a double-negative and you end up with a force vector in the same direction when you flip the polarity of the applied voltage and do the cross-product.

So that means the motor spins in the same direction if you reverse the applied voltage to the terminals.  So yes the motor will run on AC, but it is certainly not an "AC motor" in the normal sense of that term.

As shown in your clip the motor will run in either direction.  It's just a question of working out the geometry to explain everything.  It's like Bill said, this is just a variation on a homopolar motor like the one people make with a standing AA cell and a paperclip.  It's also just a variation on one of those mislabelled "swirling aquarium water and bubbles" clips.

Somewhere within the bearing structure you have current flow at an angle with the external magnetic field produced by that very same current flow and that is creating a tangential force that results in torque being applied to the motor.   That is the only possible explanation and the real exercise is to figure out and show where it is happening.

MileHigh
This is all well and good MH,but a homopolar motor ia a unidirectional motor,and that direction is dependant on two thing's-current flow direction,or magnetic field orientation. This motor requires no such thing. If i apply a DC current,the motor will still spin in either direction-->what happened to the right hand ruel there ?.


Offline allcanadian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1320
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2015, 04:06:04 PM »
@Tinman


I think I made a little progress, if we look at the rail gun circuit we see we have two rails with a rolling conductor and the conductor experiences a force dependent on the current flow/field. However in our bearing motor the races/rails are circular so the rail has no beginning or end like the rail gun. Thus the current has no preference whether it flows left or right within the bearing race/rails which explains why the motor can operate in either direction.


The AC/DC applied current was also an issue because if the current alternates or reverses direction then we would think the motor direction should as well. However AC currents may produce attractive forces in ferromagnetic materials but repulsive forces in non-ferromagnetic materials through the generation of eddy currents. The problem here, and it is always a problem conceptually is that the current/field is moving. That is the point where the current leaves the outer race is changing, the point where the current enters and leaves the ball bearing is changing and the point where the current enters the inner race is also changing.


Here's an experiment, take a ball and place it on a table then take a ruler and place it on top of the ball and move the ruler. If we move the ruler to the left the ball rolls to the left on the table but rolls to the right on the ruler not unlike our ball bearing. Knowing this we could say that if the ball bearing retained some of it's magnetism then the field generated by the present current path would repel the field in the ball bearing retained by the last current path. Thus AC or DC the ball experiences a turning force not unlike the armature in a shaded pole AC induction motor. It seems reasonable enough considering the circumstances involved.


AC









Offline tinman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4880
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2015, 04:43:04 PM »
@Tinman


I think I made a little progress, if we look at the rail gun circuit we see we have two rails with a rolling conductor and the conductor experiences a force dependent on the current flow/field. However in our bearing motor the races/rails are circular so the rail has no beginning or end like the rail gun. Thus the current has no preference whether it flows left or right within the bearing race/rails which explains why the motor can operate in either direction.


The AC/DC applied current was also an issue because if the current alternates or reverses direction then we would think the motor direction should as well. However AC currents may produce attractive forces in ferromagnetic materials but repulsive forces in non-ferromagnetic materials through the generation of eddy currents. The problem here, and it is always a problem conceptually is that the current/field is moving. That is the point where the current leaves the outer race is changing, the point where the current enters and leaves the ball bearing is changing and the point where the current enters the inner race is also changing.


Here's an experiment, take a ball and place it on a table then take a ruler and place it on top of the ball and move the ruler. If we move the ruler to the left the ball rolls to the left on the table but rolls to the right on the ruler not unlike our ball bearing. Knowing this we could say that if the ball bearing retained some of it's magnetism then the field generated by the present current path would repel the field in the ball bearing retained by the last current path. Thus AC or DC the ball experiences a turning force not unlike the armature in a shaded pole AC induction motor. It seems reasonable enough considering the circumstances involved.


AC
First up,i to believe that magnetic forces are at work here.
But the thing that needs to be explaind is this-->how dose the initial spin direction determon the direction that the magnetic fields act to create this unidirectional force. It is very important we find out exactly what is happening here. We can look at the device as a whole,and we know that the outer race is a single turn coil,and will produce a magnetic field of one polarity. We also know that the inner race is a single turn coil,and this will produce a magnetic field opposite that of the outer race,as the current(if we look closely) is flowing in the opposite direction to the outer race,and will have the opposite voltage polarity. What i mean by opposite current flow is this-the current will be flowing into the outer race,and out of the inner race,or the opposite way round. The voltage across the bearing races will also be different,and thus 1 will be positive,and the other will be our negative. But what is it in the movement of the balls them self that determonds as to how these magnetic fields are shaped in a way to cause a force in one direction that is higher than that in the other direction?. Then there is the magnetic field along the shaft--what part dose this play?.

Looking at the first video i posted,that motor has quit a bit of torque to get that flywheel up and running so fast so quick. I have looked at the video,and i would say that the bearings i am using now in the second motor are about the same size. I pretty sure that his small transformer would not be putting out the current mine is,as his wire gauge is a lot smaller than what im using,and i have melted some of mine. My  motor has no where near the acceleration of his???. Now,my first motor wouldnt hardly maintain speed ,and yet his picks up speed no problem at all-and fast,but my first motor had an aluminum pulley,and went very slow. My second motor has the steel laminated rotor on it,and it dose pick up speed--much better than the first. The motor in the first video i posted has a larger diameter steel rotor,and that one picks up speed really fast-->i think if he let it go it would fly to pieces from RPM's.I also read one of the comments on his video,and it said-quote: and if you put a few more turns of copper plate around the outside of the bearings,it will spin even faster-the turns not touching each other of course.
I found that to be an interesting comment,as doing that would increase the strength of the magnetic field around the outer race of the bearing.

Anyway,im sure we will work it out,and i have this feeling that the outcome is going to be the reverse of that of the SEG-->although i have always believed that to be another quack job.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5631
Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2015, 06:22:43 PM »
First up,i to believe that magnetic forces are at work here.
But the thing that needs to be explaind is this-->how dose the initial spin direction determon the direction that the magnetic fields act to create this unidirectional force.

Like I said earlier, I believe the thing has to be set into motion to provide an offset in the fields.

The way I see it, when we apply current initially, the fields are probably balanced, no motion. But while current is flowing, when the thing is put into motion, the fields in the balls most likely bend the fields produced by the balls, and this offset probably gets greater with speed. So this would explain the how of working in either direction. Spin one way, and the offset is in place for that direction of spin, and likewise the other direction.


When we apply a biasing magnet to the system, the offset is already there. The fields created by currents in the system become altered and off balance without the push start.

Maybe this can be drawn up on FEMM to see what the fields look like, around the balls and the races.  I dont know if there is a FEMM prog that shows fields developed by electrical currents.


In my vid of the magnet rolling on the foil, if it were just a solid iron disk, it probably would not move, until we moved it while current is running through it. 

So it is possible that in the videos of a AA battery with a magnet and a wire simple motors, that the magnet could be replaced by an iron disk, then give it a spin in either direction.  ??? ;D


Mags

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bearing motor
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2015, 06:22:43 PM »

 

Share this topic to your favourite Social and Bookmark site

Please SHARE this topic at: