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Author Topic: Permanent magnet motor  (Read 51814 times)

Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2015, 11:58:02 PM »
PERPETUAL-MOTION  PERMANENT-MAGNET  FARADAY-MOTOR

A non-electric Faraday-Motor,  which just uses permanent-magnets.

THIS MOTOR DOES NOT USE  MERCURY ( OR SALT WATER )
This  Faraday-Motor  'does not'  use the liquid mercury ( salt-water in other versions )  that Faraday-Motors usually use. 

Replace the wire in the Faraday-Motor  with a LOOP made of Neodymium-Wire( if that really exists ) or some other permanently-magnetic thing that would have the same effect(  making sure that only one side of the loop( one strand ) interacts with the permanent-magnet at the centre of the motor .

NOTE : I'm suggesting a LOOP,  incase the incredible phenomenon called  'Persistent Current'  could exist in the material used,  because 'Persistent Current' has been proven to occur in  NON-SUPERCONDUCTOR materials.

THIS MOTOR WOULD HAVE TO USE A   'MAGNETIC-BEARING'

(  'Ideally',  instead of a LOOP made of Neodymium-Wire,  it would be a LOOP made of a room-temperature Superconductor-Wire( like Stanene or Graphene ),  WHICH COULD ADDITIONALLY ALSO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE INCREDIBLE PHENOMENON CALLED   'PRESISTENT CURRENT'  ,   but that would only be absolutely 'Ideally'  )


IF THIS MOTOR WOULD NOT WORK
The question would be what is the difference between the magnetic-field around a wire( with electricity flowing through it ) and the magnetic-field around a Neodymium-Wire-Loop.

Could it be that a magnetic-field around a wire( with electricity flowing through it ) has some type of a cog-wheel like outer edge( outer most surface ) because it is generated by electricity,  unlike the assumedly  smooth outer edge( outer most surface ) of the magnetic field of a permanent-magnet.

THE FOLLOWING NOTE,  TURNED OUT TO BE WRONG ( I ASSUME )
NOTE :  Hours after I posted this post,   I realized,  correctly or not,  that the propulsion in a normal   'Faraday-Motor'( electric-motor ) is probably due to a jet like effect( electrons coming out ) between the wire and the mercury( ( salt-water in other versions ), but I don't know. 
At worst,  the  Neodymium-Wire would just hang in a stationary-orbit near the central permanent-magnet,  at best it would spin around.

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2015, 11:58:02 PM »

Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #61 on: July 30, 2015, 12:07:40 AM »
.

The following   'Non-Electric-Faraday-Motor( Homopolar-motor )' ,  is designed to replicate the magnetic fields that propel a normal   Electric-Faraday-Motor( Homopolar-motor ) .

The following webpage,  has a  MIND-BLOWING  explanation of how the  'Homopolar-Motor'  works,  just read the post which contains the word   'tangential'  .

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/homopolar-motor-explained.300468/

After I read the above web-page,  I played with some small  permanent-magnets( shaped like flat round watch-batteries  ),  and I seemed to get some  propulsion  )

I'm not even able to build this incredibly simple motor, unfortunately.

(  Strangely,  I think I'm onto something here,  a resulting  'tangential' force resulting from the interaction of magnetic fields that are  slightly more than,  or slightly less than 90-degrees different to each other,   and the flexibility of the string in the Diagram below  )
 
(    If you build the motor below,  try it with either the slightly different string lengths( as shown in the diagram ) ,   or ,  with equal string lengths.       
     Since string is flexible,  it will do strange things on its own.   Eventually the string would be replaced with a  rod  connected  to a magnetic bearing ,  which would give it some strange flexibility  )

In the diagram below,    a bar magnet( suspended by two lenghts of string ) is in  'orbit'   around another bar magnet( which is sitting up-right )  ,  you'll notice that the two strings are different lengths ( thats to replicate  the results I got last night ).

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Offline lumen

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #62 on: July 30, 2015, 06:20:19 AM »
I have 90 small diametric cylinders coming and will make a better attempt to simulate a current carrying conductor.
With enough magnets I can make it several inches long and try to space them so more of the field is external.
The concept merits a bit more effort before trashing it.

Offline xhacks

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2015, 11:25:01 AM »


Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2015, 05:37:38 AM »
Xhacks, no explanations, no theory. It's over my simple mind. There is no way how i can take it seriously, unless this thing is better explained.

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2015, 05:37:38 AM »
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Offline SoManyWires

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2015, 05:48:55 AM »
Check this guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJyeSPSFAyY

wow, that did look pretty cool.

magnetic bearing.

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #66 on: August 01, 2015, 03:00:39 PM »
Ah, that's only magnetic bearing. The small magnet sits in the hole of the magnetic field of the big ring magnet? Quite difficult to make any motor with that. And kind of useless too, that there is overunity can be shown much more easily. But a motor which barely rotates is more or less useless.

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #66 on: August 01, 2015, 03:00:39 PM »
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Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2015, 02:59:23 AM »
If anyone can explain,   completely correctly,   and using the simplest terms that  'anyone'  can understand,    what is the difference between an   Electric-Faraday-Motor  and a   Non-Electric-Faraday-Motor( which just uses 2 permanent magnets )   ?

Why would a   'Non-Electric-Faraday-Motor'   which uses 2   'pipe-shaped-bar-magnets'  set at  90-degrees from each other,  not produce propulsion  (  see the diagram in my earlier post ). 
    I would have thought that the reaction between these 2  permanent-magnets  would result in propulsion at a 45-degree angle.

(  What is the difference between a   magnetic-field   generated by an electrical current,  and the magnetic-field  of a permanent magnet   )

(  If your answer is that in the  'Electric-Faraday-Motor',  the  magnetic-field  of the permanent-magnet   also interacts with the  flowing-electrons,   then check the angle of that interaction  :     
 -  when the electricity is switched to flow in one direction,    the  magnetic-field  of the permanent-magnet   is flowing in the  EXACT-SAME  direction that the   flowing-electrons  are travelling,  although assumedly at a different speed.
 -  when the electricity is switched to flow in the  other direction,   the  magnetic-field  of the permanent-magnet   is flowing in the  EXACT-OPPOSITE  direction that the   flowing-electrons  are travelling                                      )


Offline SoManyWires

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #68 on: August 02, 2015, 03:55:49 AM »
Ah, that's only magnetic bearing. The small magnet sits in the hole of the magnetic field of the big ring magnet? Quite difficult to make any motor with that. And kind of useless too, that there is overunity can be shown much more easily. But a motor which barely rotates is more or less useless.

the value of using a magnetic bearing, would be to increase its lifespan when compared to a not so magnetic bearing due to friction.
also the lack of friction means the bearing can essentially run using less power input.

as a example, a vertical axis wind turbine/windmill.

this floating bearing system can possibly be used for many other ideas.
such as a near frictionless axle that might be used in the development of a maybe possible overunity device, though the bearing will not be the reason it keeps running on its own.
there is the risk that if there is cogging that might occur in the design, to cause the floating bearing to not remain in its exact position constantly, and this may be something of concern when working with such bearing systems mixed with other experiments.
though additional magnets might be used to counter act against the main bearings positional movement.
using anything else other than those additional magnets to correct that alignment would mean more material contact based friction.

though supercooling could help certain levitation of i think it involves bismuth or something else.
supercooling has its costs unless the generator itself can cover the extra needed energy for that cost, but that is getting beyond my scope of understanding which is easy to do when i try to make sense of concepts and theories, much flies way over my head, hats off to those it does not.

Offline lumen

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2015, 06:55:55 AM »
If anyone can explain,   completely correctly,   and using the simplest terms that  'anyone'  can understand,    what is the difference between an   Electric-Faraday-Motor  and a   Non-Electric-Faraday-Motor( which just uses 2 permanent magnets )   ?

Why would a   'Non-Electric-Faraday-Motor'   which uses 2   'pipe-shaped-bar-magnets'  set at  90-degrees from each other,  not produce propulsion  (  see the diagram in my earlier post ). 
    I would have thought that the reaction between these 2  permanent-magnets  would result in propulsion at a 45-degree angle.

(  What is the difference between a   magnetic-field   generated by an electrical current,  and the magnetic-field  of a permanent magnet   )

(  If your answer is that in the  'Electric-Faraday-Motor',  the  magnetic-field  of the permanent-magnet   also interacts with the  flowing-electrons,   then check the angle of that interaction  :     
 -  when the electricity is switched to flow in one direction,    the  magnetic-field  of the permanent-magnet   is flowing in the  EXACT-SAME  direction that the   flowing-electrons  are travelling,  although assumedly at a different speed.
 -  when the electricity is switched to flow in the  other direction,   the  magnetic-field  of the permanent-magnet   is flowing in the  EXACT-OPPOSITE  direction that the   flowing-electrons  are travelling                                      )

I am planning to do some experiments to determine why there is a difference.
I would have thought that because is conductor is non-magnetic the cross field does not interact with it, but I'm sure the Faraday motor would still work if the conductor was iron.

So maybe it's only because the magnet tube is not long enough to prevent the field simply entering the ends and preventing the effect. That's one thing I hope to test.

It could be that a conductor pushes the field outside of the conductor and a magnetic tube contains the field inside the tube so it does not deflect the cross field.

I thought possibly a spinning copper tube would deflect the cross field in a similar way and cause movement even though the rotating copper would require work.
 
There must be some reason why it does not work the same , right?
 

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2015, 06:55:55 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #70 on: August 02, 2015, 11:05:27 AM »
Guest1289, Lumen,

The difference i think is how the magnetic fields interact. In case of two magnets with the axis perpendicular, what happens is that the magnetic fields reshape, so that both poles of the rotor magnet shall be directly connected to the pole of the stator magnet. When the poles of the rotor magnet are at equal distances from the pole of the stator magnet, then the forces are in balance, and there will not be any movement. When they are at different distances, then there simply will be an attraction or repulsion radial to the pole of the stator magnet, again no movement. The same cannot happen when the magnetic field of the stator magnet is circular. I don't know every detail but, if you asked what is the difference, this is the difference.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 08:27:25 PM by ayeaye »

Offline lumen

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #71 on: August 03, 2015, 12:33:20 AM »
I am getting some response that is something like what a conductor would do.
 
This is what I am using but the tube needs to be splined so the cylinders stay in alignment as shown. They now tend to lock together in the gaps when stacked and that appears to reduce the effect.
 
When placed over the top on a large cylinder magnet, the array wants to tilt like a conductor carrying current would do.
Once I devise a way to keep the orientation, I will try a few other tests to see if it's like a conductor.
 


Offline lumen

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #72 on: August 03, 2015, 04:47:08 AM »
No it seems not to be like a conductor with current but much closer to a single long magnet.
Though the magnets are diametric cylinders, somehow it has developed poles on the ends of the stack making more like a single cylinder magnet.
 

Offline PerpetualMotion12345678

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #73 on: August 06, 2015, 07:10:23 PM »
.

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Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #74 on: August 06, 2015, 08:16:05 PM »
I tried to get  'scientifically qualified people'  to answer the question  :   -   What is the actual difference between the  field of a  'Permanent-Magnet'  and  that of a  'Wire with DC Current Flowing Through it' ,  in terms of achieving movement in a    Non-Electric-Permanent-Magnet-Powered-Faraday Motor  .

Below,  is where I posted my questions  :

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/197575/what-is-the-difference-between-the-magnetic-field-of-a-permanent-magnet-and-tha

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/197356/why-will-a-non-electric-faraday-motor-which-just-uses-permanent-magnets-not-w

(  Even though they heavily edited and or removed things I had put in the questions above,   THEY ACHIEVED making my questions much more  SUCCINCT  and  CLEAR,   and,  believe it or not,  gave me  'editing privileges'   to edit other peoples questions,   which I don't have the energy to do, 
 and I really only care about the questions arising from this    Non-Electric-Permanent-Magnet-Powered-Faraday Motor    )

-   -   -

The flowing  magnetic-field  of a  Permanent-Magnet  is made up of  photons( real photons, or virtual photons )  flowing  in one direction between the two poles of the  Permanent-Magnet.
     
(   It's easy to believe the magnetic-field  of  'Wire with DC Current Flowing Through it'  could be composed of  photons,   but less easy to think that the magnetic-field  of a  Permanent-Magnet  is also composed of  photons  )

That makes me wonder,  just what kind of  MIRRORS  could effectively 'reflect'  magnetic fields.   
  I did read that some types of  coils  are able to  reflect  part  of the    magnetic field .

-   -   -

    Last night,  I discovered on the internet that    Polarized-Light   can  turn-off  a magnetic-field  (  a recognized and authenticated discovery  ).
       
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetization_reversal_by_circularly_polarized_light

     That made me wonder,  since the  magnetic-field   and  the  electric-field  are unified ( through the  special-theory-of-relativity ),  and that the  gravitational-field   is somehow also unified with the magnetic-field   and  the  electric-field ,    could some type of  Light-Emission  be used to achieve  Anti-Gravity  (   or an electric current flowing through the outer surface(  made of a  super-conductor ) of a  CRAFT  ,  which would be different to using ionized air particles as propulsion  ) . 

-   -   -

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #74 on: August 06, 2015, 08:16:05 PM »

 

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