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Author Topic: Switchable Magnets.  (Read 25641 times)

Offline synchro1

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2015, 03:03:46 AM »
Yes! but the video never shows how it becomes much harder to turn to the on position when it's not on the steel surface.
In fact if you turn it half way on and remove it or tilt it on the steel surface it will switch itself to the off position due to the increased pull to the off position.

I have about four of these and they all work the same.
One would need to do some testing but I believe no OU here.

@lumen,

You can see the force it takes to turn this Magnetic Base "ON" in mid air at :24 seconds into this video. It doesn't appear to be any harder then when it's on the metal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZgOo8-s3w4
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 05:48:33 AM by synchro1 »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2015, 03:03:46 AM »

Offline synchro1

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2015, 06:01:06 AM »
The magnet switch needs to turn "OFF" fast. It can take it's time turning back "ON" while the rotor travels. This gives us the option to power the switch with step down gears for the higher force "ON" side.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline synchro1

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2015, 07:57:41 AM »
A two speed current reversing electric motor connected to a half moon gear where the switch is located and controlled by a commutator or opti-cutter would solve all the problems. It would go very fast in one direction, reverse and go more slowly in the other. The "Rack and Pinion" style gears would remain meshed.

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2015, 08:11:57 AM »
One would construct a device by linking *two* opposite magnetic polarity blocks back to back
with counter rotating  handles. It makes me think that "hydraulics" would be the energy extractor.
like a motorcycle handbrake. A small distance but powerful mechanical movement.

A proof of concept device would be... "one stage activates next stage".. plus an inverter.. around a time delay loop.

..S..MarkSCoffman


Offline synchro1

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2015, 06:03:59 PM »
One would construct a device by linking *two* opposite magnetic polarity blocks back to back
with counter rotating  handles. It makes me think that "hydraulics" would be the energy extractor.
like a motorcycle handbrake. A small distance but powerful mechanical movement.

A proof of concept device would be... "one stage activates next stage".. plus an inverter.. around a time delay loop.

..S..MarkSCoffman

@MarkSCoffman,

That sounds ingenious! Can you upload a schematic?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2015, 06:03:59 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2015, 07:55:50 PM »
Two magnet switches facing each other, joined at the handles, would equalize the throw force. One would turn on as the other turned off. An overhead rocker arm with swiveling plates and small gaps, would first clamp down and release on one side, then the other, as the joined switches were turned on and off. The combined ratchet force with twin Noga 0039's would be nearly 600 pounds! A hydraulic pressure system would be an enormous advantage to move the switches as mscoffman helped envision.

A two way hydraulic ram cylinder can cut the switch cost to the valve force and pressure maintenance alone. This would deliver a very high COP!
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 11:52:56 PM by synchro1 »

Offline synchro1

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2015, 11:47:32 PM »
The hydraulic cylinder is so powerful and efficient, it could easily flop a gang of two dozen magnet switches in a row for practically nothing. The twelve rocker arms could pivot the same axle. This would deliver 7200 pounds of ratchet force. A couple of spring teeth at one axle end could turn gear wheels. These wheels could in turn run valves in a much larger hydraulic cylinder, and power an entire city. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2015, 11:47:32 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2015, 12:44:03 AM »
Here's a 12 volt push pull linear actuator for 16 dollars that would probably be enough to flop a gang of "Rocker Arm" magnet switches in tandem:

Offline synchro1

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2015, 01:33:57 AM »
Weighting the "Rocker Arm" iron plates to offset them to the outside would keep them in touch with the magnet switch keepers, and satisfy Lumen's concern about the increased switch force from no metal contact. The plates would pivot and lift on the inside only to a maximum pull gap of an inch or so. The torque would equal close to the full rated pull force of the magnet on each end in that throw range. Thanks to mscoffman for seeding this design!

Offline DreamThinkBuild

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2015, 03:04:30 AM »
Hi Synchro,

Here is a patent that uses rocker arms, the translation is really bad though but the images show the general idea.

CN102510242A - Permanent-magnet power machine and method for converting magnetic energy into mechanical energy

https://www.google.com/patents/CN102510242A

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2015, 03:04:30 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2015, 03:57:23 AM »
Hi Synchro,

Here is a patent that uses rocker arms, the translation is really bad though but the images show the general idea.

CN102510242A - Permanent-magnet power machine and method for converting magnetic energy into mechanical energy

https://www.google.com/patents/CN102510242A

@DreamThinkBuild,

This 3 year old patent is a nearly an identical idea. Parts of it are very complex compared to the our current "Servo Magnet Switch" design. He's turning the magnets labeled "2" and "10" 180º. His power extraction involves a clutching mechanism. Well worth closer scrutiny. He has two "Reciprocators" in tandem.  Good find! Thanks.

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2015, 05:10:29 AM »
These types of devices have been around for about 100 years.  They are common in every machine shop I have ever worked in or owned.
There are called magnetic chucks.

http://www.magnetoolinc.com/chucks-sine-plates/permanent-magnetic-chucks.php

When turned on using a simple lever, they will hold steel grinding plates so hard, you can not remove them with a hammer.  When turned off,
a steel ruler, or anything with iron, will have no attraction to it at all.

I have owned probably 40 of these in my lifetime.  The newer, better ones are electromagnetic and are sealed so they almost never fail.
The permanent magnet type wears out eventually.  Not the magnets themselves, but the mechanism that aligns/disaligns the flux lines
will get to a point that it no longer operates properly.  They can be repaired but, taking one apart is very, very hard as the flux is usually aligned (on) when they fail.(Murphy's law)  Coolant seeps inside past the seals eventually and this helps the internal parts wear out faster.

We had to use a forklift to take one apart.

Anyway, nothing new and I do not see how this could be used in any useful way as you need energy to switch the device on and off.  Sometimes, a lot of energy.

Bill

PS  The largest one we had was 12" x 36".  That was a monster!


Offline synchro1

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2015, 04:44:38 PM »
These types of devices have been around for about 100 years.  They are common in every machine shop I have ever worked in or owned.
There are called magnetic chucks.

http://www.magnetoolinc.com/chucks-sine-plates/permanent-magnetic-chucks.php

When turned on using a simple lever, they will hold steel grinding plates so hard, you can not remove them with a hammer.  When turned off,
a steel ruler, or anything with iron, will have no attraction to it at all.

I have owned probably 40 of these in my lifetime.  The newer, better ones are electromagnetic and are sealed so they almost never fail.
The permanent magnet type wears out eventually.  Not the magnets themselves, but the mechanism that aligns/disaligns the flux lines
will get to a point that it no longer operates properly.  They can be repaired but, taking one apart is very, very hard as the flux is usually aligned (on) when they fail.(Murphy's law)  Coolant seeps inside past the seals eventually and this helps the internal parts wear out faster.

We had to use a forklift to take one apart.

Anyway, nothing new and I do not see how this could be used in any useful way as you need energy to switch the device on and off.  Sometimes, a lot of energy.

Bill

PS  The largest one we had was 12" x 36".  That was a monster!

@Pirate88179,

The decisive factor is the ratio of magnetic holding strength to switch force. A magnet switch with 300 pounds of holding strength should  be 10 times harder to switch then one with 30 right? I really don't know what the true relationship is. I don't believe it's a direct proportion. An increase in holding strength with a stable switch force would signal a gain possibility, right? The chiral twin switches, solenoid and rocker arm design looks pretty clean at this time. 江涌, 王龙元 are the Chinese inventors of a nearly identical concept above. The major difference between the two approaches is the 180º versus the 90º switch throw. The 90º advantage is tremendous. 

Offline synchro1

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2015, 05:54:02 PM »
I sent an email inquiry to "Noga" and asked their engineers if their switch force increases with holding strength. We can start popping our champagne corks if they report back that it's non-proportional.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline synchro1

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Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2015, 06:56:28 PM »
I haven't heard back from "Noga" yet but I can assure everyone that their "Magnetic Base" employs a "Flux-Decoupling Mechanism", or it would just be a complete piece of crap, not an industrial standard. The switch must handle just the weight of the magnets, the flux redirected by steel keepers before switching. I'll get back with a report if I get a response from them.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Switchable Magnets.
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2015, 06:56:28 PM »

 

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