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Author Topic: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.  (Read 105206 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #75 on: April 29, 2015, 12:21:59 AM »
Gaia AuKW failure Power went out at Rosch in Spich Germany

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROOB34xUJwk

These are the last Seconds where the Gaia Rosch AuKW KPP Power Plant was still functioning...
Now it seems the whole hall room lost its power and then also the AuKW was dead !
Seems to support the claim, that it is only a scam and that the AuKW does not produce its own power...

I captured this video from their Website at:
http://www.rosch.ag/index.php/de/live-stream

There you still can see the JWPlayer Stream.

JWPlayer has a bug, so that it still shows abandomed
Live Streams which are no longer accessible at Youtube,
so you still can see the failure yourself.

Shutdown at 3:20:10. Blinking stops at 3:26:30 .

Stream ends at around  hour 4:00:02 at the Rosch siite in JWPlayer.

German Explanation:
Leute, eben ist der Strom am AuKW ausgefallen., aber der Livestream lief noch einige Zeit weiter,
so dass man sehen konnte, wie der Strom in der ganzen Halle ausgefallen ist und dann nur am Gaia
Panel eine Rote Lampe blinkte und dann die Hallen-Notstromversorgung anging !

Also ist wohl klar, dass das AuKW am Stromnetz hängt und da halt einfach mal der
Strom der Halle ausgefallen ist und das auch noch vom Livestream mit eingefangen wurde...

WIe peinlich für Gaia und Rosch, jetzt wissen wir also , dass es ein Betrug ist, denn
wenn es wirlich autark wäre, dann wäre das AuKW beim Stromausfall einfach weitergelaufen !

Wir hatten Glück das zu sehen, da anscheinend die Kamera an einem eigenen Stromkreis hing oder eine eigenen Akkus hat
und es einen Bug im JWPlayer gibt, der abgeschaltete Livestreams totzdem noch weiter anzeigt...auch wenn es auf Youtube schon abgeschaltet ist...
Deswegen war es auf der Roschseite immer noch zu sehen...

Ich habe das von der Webseite:
http://www.rosch.ag/index.php/de/live-stream
abgefilmt. Hier der Screenshot-film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROOB34xUJwk

Shutdown ab 3:20:10. Rotes Blinken hört bei 3:26:30 auf.

Kann man sich da noch anschauen auf:
http://www.rosch.ag/index.php/de/live-stream

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #75 on: April 29, 2015, 12:21:59 AM »

Offline tinman

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #76 on: April 29, 2015, 12:54:36 AM »
Quote
It is very disappointing that you do not grasp the difference between a conservative field and constant force, or the meaning of conservative even when I have spelled that meaning out.

Quote : A conservative force is a force with the property that the work done in moving a particle between two points is independent of the taken path.[1] Equivalently, if a particle travels in a closed loop, the net work done (the sum of the force acting along the path multiplied by the distance travelled) by a conservative force is zero.

Like i said-crap. As the gravitational field is NOT constant,then net work can be done-->there for meaning that the gravitational field is not conservative. This is one great example of the crap that is peddled through the teaching of physics. So i say once again-->if the gravitational force is not constant,and work can be done from this non consistant force,then how can it be a conservative force?.

Quote
You do yourself no favors with nonsense posts like these.

It is not i that is doing one's self no favors Mark,as my post is not nonsense. I CAN !without doubt! show you energy being produced using !your! conservative force(both gravitational and bouyant).You say that the gravitational force cant do work-->rubbish. You say that a bouyancy device cant do work-->more rubbish. Neither of these forces(when combined) is conservative,as they are not constant forces.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #77 on: April 29, 2015, 01:03:23 AM »
That's hilarious!

I wonder why the camera kept running though. Is it connected to a laptop with battery power, and to an internet router on uninterruptable power supply? And did it switch somehow to a "low light" mode that is now in black-and-white? Odd that in total darkness we still see the Red light blinking Red, but when the Emergency Lights come on, the scene is in black and white, and the "red" light now shows up white...

Thank you for capturing and publishing this, Stefan! It will be very interesting to see what Rosch/Gaia have to say about this...

Them:  :-\    :-[ :-[ :-[
Us:      :o    ;D ;D ;D

Offline tinman

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #78 on: April 29, 2015, 01:26:26 AM »
You might pay a price with the slowing or speeding up of the Earth's rotation and/or the changing of the moon's orbit.

The point being that you are making crazy talk.  Does your position relative to the center of mass of the Earth change a bit over the course of a day, perhaps because of the way the tidal waves move across the Earth?  It might.  The question is how much.

Why don't you take on the challenge?  See if you can find any real data about some kind of "wobble" in the position of the center of mass of the Earth over the course of one day and a given point on the surface of the Earth.

Then all that you have to do is crunch the numbers.  Use one kilogram moving up and down one meter as your test apparatus.

Let's see your calculation in Joules gained by this process.

I can take a wackadoo guess for you:  It may be smaller than 10^-30 Joules.

Why limit it to just one KG MH ?
Lets scale it up a bit. Lets take a small ship that displaces say 50 000 tons. Lets place this ship at Nova Scotia where the average tidal range is around 14 meters. So how much energy is required to lift 50 000 tons 14 meters ? = around 6860000000 joules of energy. Now,what if that ship was suspended once the tide hit it's peak,and then the tide was aloud to once again drop while the ship remained suspended in the air?. Do we not now have another 6860000000 joules of potential energy?. Now 50 000 tons of displacement is quite a small ship when we consider that there are ship's that displace over 500 000 ton's,and each and every day these ship's are raised and lowered by a conservative force-->aint that a hoot.

Offline Hope

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #79 on: April 29, 2015, 02:19:31 AM »
I am still living on the island,  lots of room for these here.   Can someone just put the build link forum group up for us about every two pages   TY
AND as you can see what didn't kill me has made me stronger.   

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #79 on: April 29, 2015, 02:19:31 AM »
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Offline LibreEnergia

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #80 on: April 29, 2015, 02:43:46 AM »
Why limit it to just one KG MH ?
Lets scale it up a bit. Lets take a small ship that displaces say 50 000 tons. Lets place this ship at Nova Scotia where the average tidal range is around 14 meters. So how much energy is required to lift 50 000 tons 14 meters ? = around 6860000000 joules of energy. Now,what if that ship was suspended once the tide hit it's peak,and then the tide was aloud to once again drop while the ship remained suspended in the air?. Do we not now have another 6860000000 joules of potential energy?. Now 50 000 tons of displacement is quite a small ship when we consider that there are ship's that displace over 500 000 ton's,and each and every day these ship's are raised and lowered by a conservative force-->aint that a hoot.

I'd suggest you just give up trying to understand physics... The term 'conservative field' has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the fact that the tide caused the ship to gain gravitational potential energy.

Conservative means the amount of energy dissipated by the tide to raise the ship is 6860 MJ and the amount recoverable by moving the ship back to the original position will be exactly the same, independent of how fast or over what path the ship takes during those movements.


   

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #81 on: April 29, 2015, 03:02:59 AM »
Here also a Screenshot of the Youtube Channel from Verein Gaia at:
https://www.youtube.com/user/VereinGAIA

Now there is also the Thumbnail icon to see from the old Livestream:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaspEl8WJW0

If you click it, unfortunately it can´t be viewed anymore there comes only the message

"This Livestream is finished.
ProxTube could not unlock this stream. Probably it is also locked in the USA ."

Without Proxtube Plugin it says:

"Diese Liveveranstaltung ist beendet.
Das tut uns leid."

This Livestream is finished ( has stopped). We regret this.

So this is again for documentation, that people do not say that I lie...

You can see yourself the greyscale thumbnail there, where only the emergency light is on in the hall.

We are lucky that  Youtube seems to store the last frame from the old Livestream
as the Thumbnail Icon for that video !

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #81 on: April 29, 2015, 03:02:59 AM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #82 on: April 29, 2015, 04:16:21 AM »



(scribbles really.... I'll attempt to make some sense out of it) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YzocJ_dc7pXwHq1Vr9mzXBdS5-nP51xNjlSPsEVPN_M


(some figures below are rounded or just close to what the actual are)

First... let's take a system with an arbitrary 32 'buckets' (these are the things that hold the air and cause bouyancy), we'll discount 4 on the top and bottom in transition from upright to downright (inverted to non-inverted?) leaving 28, 14 with air rising and 14 empty and falling.  The mechanism tying them together and material of the buckets themselves essentially irrelavent because it's balanced on rise and falling side.  It will play a role as inertia, it will take a bit of time to accelerate/decelerate the mass of the mechanism.




Buckets can be constructed of PVC tube, with holes drilled out with a holesaw of any appropriate size... I started looking at largest in-stock and nearby materials, which are 8" tubes.  Tubing is measured by Inner Diameter... so we can compute from a diameter of pipe and a length cubic space (ft^3)... and can translate that to gallons which is 8 pounds per gallon... (I know all this non metric stuff, whatever)... anyway, a certain separation between buckets is also required to get air into them in-between...so I chose and arbitrary 4 inches to make 1 foot per bucket, which means I'd need a tank at least 14 feet in depth, which is 4.2m... let's round up to 5m.  Every 10m of water is +1 atmosphere.... so 1.5 atmospheres of pressure at the bottom.




It is also considered that the buckets at the bottom will be under more pressure, making the volume of air in them less... and the displacment also less.. if the were filled to 100% capacity, air would leak out as they rose uselessly... so if we fill them to 66% capacity ( 1.5  atmosheres is 3/2 atmospheres and  1 is 2/2 atmospheres ... anyway the three in there makes it be 1/3 something)  so as they rise, at the top they will be 100% full and no bouyant force is every lost.... but... this means that each bucket going down has slightly less displacement... and therefore slightly less bouyant force. (top+bottom * one_side_bucket_count / 2 ) ends up being the calculation for total displacment of all buckets rising... (1+0.66 * 7 ) or 11.62 buckets... which is only 83% capacity.  But this is 'optimal' and one could overfill the bottom so there is 14 buckets of force always ... with air spilling out as they rise and get slightly more work out of them.  (sterling allan'snews suggested there is possiblility of load-following, which reminded me of this).




Force of a bouyant object is strictly the mass of the displacement of liquid times gravity. (please do correct me if I'm wrong, because actually I neglected that 32.1 ft/sec^2 in my later calculations... which means the output is always G times the input... and actually would work)




(this was later refined, and this is an erroroneous calculation) adding up the total I found the rising side would have some 1080 gallons of displacment causing them to rise... to get force have to multiply by 'g' ..
32.174 ft/s^2 .. which gives some 32000 ft-pounds/sec or 58HP... or
44683 Watts!  44KW !  well... that will certainly power MY house... this looks promising.
[size=78%]--------------
So.. let's scale this back a little, and see if maybe I can make a table-top version.




so if we have a 3 inch pipe, 1 foot in length, it will have 0.05 cubic feet or hold 0.367 gallons... which will be a displacment of 2.93 pounds per tube.




if I use a 1 inch separation, there's 3 tubes per foot of vertical space... if I use the same 32 sections (14 effective floats), it will be about 5 feet in height... which is only 0.14 addtional atmospheres of pressure...




This well have an optimal displacement of 40.7 pounds. 




That's all well and good, but, how much work is it to compress normal air from 1x to 0.86x of it's volume? (increasing pressure the of air from 1 to 1.14 )
---------------
Well turns out this is all over ... and it's




nRT * ln(V2/V1)...




where n is moles of air (1.19804 per cubic foot)
R is 'gas constant'   (6.13244 ft-lb/ k-mol)  (multiplying this by n and K remove the divid and you get ft-lb)
K is the tempurature of the gas (I used 65 farenheight ... 291.3333 Kelvin)


0.1472578125 cubic feet (v1)
0.1289202028 cubic feet (v2) .. (v1 * 0.86) (the 0.86 is from the computed atmosphere pressure difference above.... assume tempurature remains the same,   P1V1T1 = P2V2T2 ... or V2 = P1(1)/P2(1.14) * V1 )


which yields
41.91757564  ft-lb. 


-----------------------
So now I'm discouraged... because 40.7(pounds lift) is slightly less than 41.9(ft-lb to compress)... but I guess my units are not matched there... I figured the feet came from the distance the thing traveled... (3 buckets fit in 1 foot, so the volume was computed as the bottom 3 buckets) ... BUT I forgot to mulitply by G. 


so no matter what I did with the sizes... unless I had negative distance separating the buckets (overlap) I could not exceed the force to compress the air.... So the conclusion yesterday was 'this is barely break even'... but ... I forgot to multiply the displacment weight times gravity force... so maybe this IS possible.


Some things to consider... increasing the operating bucket count (extending the height) did not increase pounds above ft-lb  ... because the taller column of water increased the required pressure...
---------------------------


So now... to source some parts... this thing turns very slowly, so it will have to be geared up, it will lose HP output what it gains in speed... so if I was at 36RPM to start, and wented to get to 3600RPM to power a gas-powered generator instead of the motor, I am at 100x less power I can apply to the generator... so a wind turbine that works 360RPM would be better... being only a 10x loss.




Was considering what I might be able to use instead; a continuous pump would be better than a piston pump if I were to directly drive the pump from the output shaft... Might be able to use an archemides screw sort of thing with a light oil seal (only dealing with 0.15 an addtional 2psi ).. but not sure what to make the screw out of... what other sort of continuous pumps?  (displacment pumps, but they do higher pressure at lower volume, and really I want high volume)




--------------
3 sections per section of the 3 inch/1 foot PVC buckets is 0.147 cubic feet/sec) or 8 CFM.... that's a lot more than an aquarium pump will output (can get 12V aquarium pumps, which reduces the voltage requirements of output generator)...




can get a 3.5CFM at 90psi   2.5HP pump for  $80... but then that's 120V AC... (though this was when I was looking at 8inch diameter by 2feet tubes, which is
55.84CFM ... and a 25+CFM pump is $2500!


but maybe I can manufacture a cheap pump with concentric PVC... a 1 foot stroke pump for 8CFM is only 5.16 inch diameter tube...
the problem with that is it's only 50% duty cycle so it would pump for 3 tubes and be drawing in air for 3 tubes... so really could make it a 2 inch stroke and do 2 strokes per bucket (1 draw, 1 pump)... or maybe some sort of sterling engine... saw a very large solar heat engine using a very large rubber membrane (rubber sheets?)...


And; again if I forget the conversion to electric to drive a pump and recover from a generator it should simplify the system, and at least demonstrate closed-loop self running... can attach a fan or something to drive a generator (tinman's venturi thing... also dyson has a air accelerator that's a ring making a very thin drive force around a very large venturi ( http://www.dyson.com/fans-and-heaters/cooling-fans/am06/am06-desk-fan-10-inch-iron-blue.aspx   (small fan in base, feeds air out through the outer edge of the ring)
 ) 


then hook up some other load to it...


------------
fewer buckets generates less lift... but requires less work to pressurize the air.
But then there's also that G is ft-per-second-squared ... and maybe that squared is more signifcant giving more tubes more travel time?

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #83 on: April 29, 2015, 04:40:26 AM »
I think your mixture is a bit off. You need more alcohol and less caffeine, or maybe vicey-versey.

Look. The whole contraption is based on one side being heavier than the other side, right? So just get rid of the water altogether, it just creates drag you don't need. Drop a series of heavy balls into the buckets on the descending side and have them roll out on the bottom. Use an Archimedes Screw to elevate the balls back up to the top so they can be dropped back into the descending buckets. Power the Archimedes Screw with a simple pulley-belt linkage off the top sprocket of the bucket-chain. Have the bottom sprocket drive your generator. There will be so much mechanical advantage from the Screw-Pulley system that you'll have to install a brake mechanism to keep it from speeding up to self-destruction.

Right?

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #84 on: April 29, 2015, 04:54:26 AM »
I had an Archimedes Screw once.  I'll never forget....I was traveling in Greece a long time ago...it was summer...and she was beautiful.  There was alcohol involved and...it is quite possible that we broke several laws of physics that night.

I'll never forget it, ha ha.

Bill

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #84 on: April 29, 2015, 04:54:26 AM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #85 on: April 29, 2015, 05:01:04 AM »
I think your mixture is a bit off. You need more alcohol and less caffeine, or maybe vicey-versey.
:)  Probably.   Been too many months without clove cigarettes and THC.
I don't drink... and caffine is about once a week but none of that counts.
Look. The whole contraption is based on one side being heavier than the other side, right? So just get rid of the water altogether, it just creates drag you don't need. Drop a series of heavy balls into the buckets on the descending side and have them roll out on the bottom. Use an Archimedes Screw to elevate the balls back up to the top so they can be dropped back into the descending buckets. Power the Archimedes Screw with a simple pulley-belt linkage off the top sprocket of the bucket-chain. Have the bottom sprocket drive your generator. There will be so much mechanical advantage from the Screw-Pulley system that you'll have to install a brake mechanism to keep it from speeding up to self-destruction.

Right?
Might as well be the same, but use water to fill the empty buckets like a water wheel, then the issue is to lift the water back up to the top... But.  This isn't the weight of water water that's moving it's air being pressurized... (which also results in water moving... but only inches instead of the full height of the apparatus.)


Chains are expensive... though I did find some cheap parts at a bicycle shop, and maybe could raid a motorcycle junkyard for drivechain; or auto yard for timing chains.  Bike sprockets don't have narrow mounts.. they're all wide in the center... But could use 4 u-bolts 2 on each end to attach the tubes to the chain... but then the u-bolts will interfere with the teeth on the gears...


Okay; maybe I should consider this a little differently and approach it as making a vaccuum in the top of the chamber to reduce the pressure of the bottom below atmosphere and use the natural air pressure to pull it in... (power from the vacuum! :) )   only need to be -20% air pressure for my 5 foot model.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-altitude-pressure-d_462.html  (only need to go up 2000 feet from sea level to be at 80% pressure... not that that helps... just sayin that's not a lot of work to produce)  (back to the scribble-board)

Offline MarkE

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #86 on: April 29, 2015, 05:08:42 AM »
Quote : A conservative force is a force with the property that the work done in moving a particle between two points is independent of the taken path.[1] Equivalently, if a particle travels in a closed loop, the net work done (the sum of the force acting along the path multiplied by the distance travelled) by a conservative force is zero.

Like i said-crap. As the gravitational field is NOT constant,then net work can be done-->there for meaning that the gravitational field is not conservative. This is one great example of the crap that is peddled through the teaching of physics. So i say once again-->if the gravitational force is not constant,and work can be done from this non consistant force,then how can it be a conservative force?.

It is not i that is doing one's self no favors Mark,as my post is not nonsense. I CAN !without doubt! show you energy being produced using !your! conservative force(both gravitational and bouyant).You say that the gravitational force cant do work-->rubbish. You say that a bouyancy device cant do work-->more rubbish. Neither of these forces(when combined) is conservative,as they are not constant forces.
You are completely lost.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #87 on: April 29, 2015, 05:11:04 AM »
Hey Mark.. or anyone familiar with the physics/math problem being touted as proof that Buoyancy Tower can't work.
I have some questions.

I was in the shower trying to fathom how this might work
when a little song came into my head.
it went something like this.

hmm ~ 9 TANKS A PULLING WHILE 1 TANK IS FILLING ~ hmm

So here's my thought...

If there is a limit to the energy it takes to fill 1 tank,
   then there is a limit to the number of air filled tanks
          that together would possess the potential energy required to fill 1 tank.
              (given a movement of about a foot that releases a small portion of the total potential)

Since the apparatus must be started by mains power my questions are this.

 1.Does the Problem start with the potential energy of the pulling floats and their movement when it compares to the energy to fill a  single float?
    (this is the logical place to start since this is where the Unexplained Energy Source starts)

2. Why couldn't X number of floats above the empty one ... possess the potential energy released through a small movement to to fill 1 float with air?

Thanks so much to anyone who can answer these questions !

Best Regards,
                      The Observer
N*0 = 0.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #88 on: April 29, 2015, 05:14:31 AM »
I can't make any claims to the Rosch device, it may very well be all a scam.
But if we want to just make blanket assumptions and apply them to all buoyancy devices claiming them to "not work", maybe someone didn't have enough balloons as a kid.

Consider this: a weighted diver under 100 feet of sea water requires a sustained 40 newtons of force to pull him to the surface.
                     
This is provided, using Buoyancy, with only a short burst of 1.6 Newtons of force, inflating his life vest from a CO2 cartridge.
In your balloon example, the balloons get inflated pushing up the local atmosphere as they get inflated, and you can reclaim most of that energy leaving you in deficit.  Similarly, work was done compressing the CO2 cartridge.  Some of that work is reclaimed when the diver opens the cartridge to surface.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #89 on: April 29, 2015, 05:15:53 AM »
I think what he means mark, is that if you lift an object through the gravitational field during a time of day when the gravitational force is lower,
Then hold it there until the force fluctuates to a higher value, you have a gain in potential energy with no cost.

That should not be defined as solely "conservative". Because it could be used in a non-conservative manner.
    albeit not economical

This difference in force, is the basis for all gravity powered devices. Whether they utilize buoyancy, magnetism, or fluctuations in the gravitational field.

What we should be looking at, is " change in force". And how much energy is involved to initiate this change.
He is once again confused.

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #89 on: April 29, 2015, 05:15:53 AM »

 

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