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Author Topic: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!  (Read 22005 times)

Jeg

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2015, 11:46:41 AM »
Hi guys
Tinsel or anyone else, is there any HV probe that i can look to from Rigol or from Ebay matching the Rigol DS1054Z scope? Something economical i mean for taking HV measurements.

Tnks in advance

itsu

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2015, 02:08:44 PM »

Hi Jeg,

i have a HVP-15HF probe which works very well for me, its x1000.
You can find them on Ebay, like here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-High-Voltage-low-noise-probe-for-scope-DMM-50Mhz-15KV-1000-1-Tektronix-OEM-/221528106688?hash=item33941aa6c0


I also have a Tektronix P5100 x100 (2500V) probe which works also very good with the lower voltages (2500V max.) also from Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-TEK-P5100-Probe-High-Voltage-250-MHz-100X-/131567627688?hash=item1ea20aada8


Regards Itsu

TinselKoala

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #47 on: September 16, 2015, 04:49:30 PM »
I have a much cheaper "P4100" probe 100x, 100Mhz, that I got from an Ebay seller for 25 dollars US, postage paid. It seems to work OK so far. Max rating 2kV dc + ac.

Jeg

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2015, 05:54:07 PM »
Thank you guys. I will go for the P4100 probes. I found it 21 euro with free international shipping!!! For higher voltages perhaps I ll make an attenuator

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/100X-P4100-High-Voltage-2KV-2000V-Oscilloscope-Scope-Passive-Clip-Probe-100MHz-/251678142479?hash=item3a992fb00f

I was about to buy a used Tektronix tds220 scope for 380 euros with its communication card. Hopefully last minute I decided to take the new Rigol.
I hope everything will go well and scope will arrive in one piece from Us to Europe. ???

TinselKoala

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2015, 07:35:17 PM »
Jeg, just be _very careful_ when you use that probe. I would suggest that you always use it with the spring grabber tip firmly attached, and to connect it to the circuit under test _before_ you turn the circuit's power on, so that you aren't moving the probe around in a live HV circuit. Also check to make sure that whatever you connect the Ground clip to doesn't have any voltage present. And discharge any capacitors before hooking up!

This is generally good practice anyway.

Jeg

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2015, 08:17:41 PM »
Thanks for the advice Tinsel! I really don't want to make again the same mistake that I did before some months, when I both destroyed my analog oscilloscope and my frequency generator together! One shot! In just a moment I put myself out of experimentation for a long time. Anyway. We learn from our mistakes. Some times cost a lot but eventually we learn something! I hope..

Jeg

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #51 on: September 26, 2015, 08:55:38 PM »
Hi guys
The baby came!  ;D What a nice toy! My first dso and I am really very excited!

Tinsel your lights please!
What is the maximum voltage that I can measure when the probe is set to X10 ?

I can't get the high voltage probes that we discussed above and so I am thinking to build this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUvSP3BQpvs

Do you think that by placing a lower value capacitor instead of 2nF will correct the response to higher frequencies? 

TinselKoala

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #52 on: September 26, 2015, 09:58:18 PM »
Jeg, congratulations on your new instrument! The RP2200 probes that come with the Rigol DS1054Z are rated to 300 VAC in the 10x setting and 150 VAC in the 1x setting. (Category II). The scope inputs themselves are rated 300 VRMS (Cat I).

I can't say anything about the home-made HV probe. If you do decide to build one yourself, I can only say... Be Careful!  I also don't know about the capacitance question. Better safe than sorry... use a probe that's designed for the purpose.

ramset

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #53 on: September 26, 2015, 10:09:42 PM »
Jeg
Congrats on the new Scope, Rigol has very good customer support and service worldwide .

Chet K

Jeg

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #54 on: September 26, 2015, 10:31:18 PM »
Thank you Tinsel, Chet :)

I got it Tinsel, it is a risk! Ok, I will try to locate a hv probe. The problem is that my country is under capital controls and is not allowed to order anything from eBay or any other international company. Thanks God I found this Rigol here, and very close to the original $399 price.

Jeg

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2015, 03:58:12 PM »
A very interesting article by Doug Ford on oscilloscope probes.

http://www.dfad.com.au/links/THE%20SECRET%20WORLD%20OF%20PROBES%20OCt09.pdf

he says......."I dissected the cable further and was surprised to discover that the core wire appeared to be very thin resistance wire, with
a resistance of around 100~200  per metre! See Fig.8. This very fine core wire appears to be made from a single
strand and is “crinkled” – presumably to provide tolerance to repeated flexing......."

Does anyone has an idea on where to search for a cable like that?

Tnks

TinselKoala

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2015, 05:30:33 PM »
That's why it is so hard to repair good probes, they use that wire, which solder doesn't stick to.

I haven't been able to find a source for that wire myself. But it's not really needed for low-bandwidth probes; you can make your own simple probes using regular 50 or 75 ohm coax.

For example,
http://cromwell-intl.com/radio/probes.html

Jeg

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2015, 07:36:44 PM »
Tinsel I managed to order two p4100 probes from eBay through a friend of mine who lives abroad. But still want to mess with HV with better response than P4100 at frequencies up to 50MHz which is the limit of my rigol. (I still don't believe that I have a scope like this on my bench). I will also fix my old analog one and any signal before going in to the new DSO, it has to pass first from the old analog.  ;D What I learned from this, is that analog scopes can be fixed easy because they have an input channel board which takes all the HV.
If hv pass in to the DSO then start crying before even see what happened  :D

TinselKoala

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2015, 10:28:35 PM »
Tinsel I managed to order two p4100 probes from eBay through a friend of mine who lives abroad. But still want to mess with HV with better response than P4100 at frequencies up to 50MHz which is the limit of my rigol. (I still don't believe that I have a scope like this on my bench). I will also fix my old analog one and any signal before going in to the new DSO, it has to pass first from the old analog.  ;D What I learned from this, is that analog scopes can be fixed easy because they have an input channel board which takes all the HV.
If hv pass in to the DSO then start crying before even see what happened  :D

The 50 MHz bandwidth of the DS1054Z doesn't mean that that is the "limit" of the scope. Oscilloscope bandwidth is usually defined as the 3db rolloff point of amplitude of a sine wave signal. That is, as the signal gets higher and higher in frequency, the scope will show it at lower and lower amplitude, and when the amplitude of the displayed signal is 3dB less than the true value of the signal, that is considered the "bandwidth" of the scope. The scope will still work at higher frequencies though; it's just that the display of the higher frequency signal components is attenuated more or less.

The good news is that the Rigol is conservatively rated; the 3dB rolloff point is more like 60 MHz for sinewaves. The even better news is that the scope can be "unlocked" to give 100 MHz bandwidth, which is also conservative; some people who have tested the "unlocked" scope have found that the 3dB rolloff point is over 100 MHz.
 
Once you've got your scope "burned in" and are past the vendor's guarantee (30 days here in the USA from TEquipment), and you know you aren't going to have to return it under the Rigol factory warranty, you can easily unlock your scope to add the 100MHz bandwidth and the advanced trigger features.

Yes, I agree about using the Analog scope on the HV measurements first... they are usually repairable if something goes wrong. I wouldn't even know where to start repairing the Rigol's front end if it failed from overvoltage on the input, though.

Jeg

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Re: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2015, 10:36:34 AM »
Very nice info Tinsel, thank you!
Do you have any video of yours working on the FFT capability of the Rigol?